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ROBTEACH49
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| First Name: | BOB | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | ARMENIAN ORTHODOX...NOW CATHOLIC |
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 09:01 pm |
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Hello Everyone...My name is Bob and I have meade a decision to convert to Catholicism. I am a member of the Armenian Orthodox Church, which is very, very close to Roman Catholic...I have registered for classes this fall but I really don't want to wait...I want to convert now...I attend mass on Sunday and during week when I can...I have read the Catechism...learned about the sacraments...(I taught in a Catholic School many years ago, I graduated from a Catholic Elementary School and a Catholic College, etc)...so I know about the faith...I have subscribed to many Catholic Newspapers and Magazines (Our Sunday Visitor, St Anthonys Messenger, Natl Catholic Reporter, etc and have been reading many Catholic Books...etc...so my first question is: How can I make this conversion process run faster...I want to partake in the Body and Blood of Our Lord and am becoming impatient...I know I am ready for this...and have contemplated it for many months/years...HELP!! I live in Nassau County, NY in the event someone knows a parish/priest that might make this conversion process a speedier one...
Bob
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1627 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 09:32 pm |
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Hi Bob,
Welcome to the forum.
On occasion, an individual priest may be willing to personally receive someone into the Church. This was the case in my own reception. You can inquire around. Call your diocese and talk to a priest or someone who might know something about this process. Perhaps CHNI (the main office) could direct you towards someone (I don't know of anyone myself). They will have to be sure that you truly know and accept the faith, and will probably require someone to vouch for you, as a sponsor.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5347 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Jun 4th, 2008 12:45 am |
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Hi, Bob, welcome to our forum.
Your situation is really quite different from most of the other "converts" on the forum. You are already what we consider "Catholic", but a member of a sadly separated branch. The essential doctrines and teachings with which you were raised are recognized by the Catholic Church as valid, and you are already participating in the sacramental life of the one true Church established by our Savior. If you are ready to accept the Catholic position where differences exist, such as the primacy of Peter and the Immaculate Conception, you are ready to become Catholic.
As a member of the Orthodox faith, you are already permitted to receive the sacraments of Reconciliation, Eucharist, and Anointing of the Sick in any Catholic Church, whether it be one of the Eastern Churches or the Latin Rite. This is specifically authorized in paragraph 3 of canon 844 of the Code of Canon Law:
Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.
§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.
§3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.
(Emphasis added)
Note that while the Catholic Church permits Catholics to receive the sacraments from an Orthodox priest and permits the Orthodox to receive the sacraments from a Catholic priest, the Orthodox do not reciprocate. Also, when a Catholic joins the Orthodox faith, some sacraments are repeated; when a member of the Orthodox faith joins the Catholic Church, all sacraments (including confirmation and even Holy Orders) are recognized in most cases.
Since the Catholic Church recognizes the Orthodox Churches as legitimate, classes are not required by the Catholic Church. In order for you to be a full member of the Catholic Church, you need only make a profession of faith, in essence publicly expressing your desire to unite with the Holy Father and the See of Rome. Not every priest or RCIA coordinator may be aware of this, however, so you might need to check with your diocesan coordinator, Judicial Vicar, or even the bishop himself, and you will probably be expected to provide proof of the sacraments you have received (baptism, first first Eucharist, Chrismation/Confirmation, first penance, matrimony, Holy Orders). Classes may be a good idea, but there is no need to wait to participate in the sacramental life of the Catholic Church.
Welcome to the Catholic faith, Bob, and welcome once again to the CHNI.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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ROBTEACH49
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| First Name: | BOB | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | ARMENIAN ORTHODOX...NOW CATHOLIC |
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Posted: Wed Jun 4th, 2008 11:30 am |
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This was recd from the Diocesan Vicar...
Dear Robert –
Some of the information that you have received is incorrect. For example, members of the Orthodox Church are welcome to receive the Sacraments from a Catholic priest when they are unable to attend their own Church – Catholics are not permitted to receive the Sacraments from the Orthodox Church – they are not in union with the Catholic Church. Certainly as a member of the Orthodox Church you would be most welcomed to profess the Catholic faith and be received into the Church there is no need for a Rite of Christian Initiation but a Catholic priest would be obligated to prepare you sufficiently to profess our Catholic faith by making sure that you were adequately instructed in the Catholic faith – there are certain matters of faith that unfortunately still divide the Orthodox and Catholic Churches and a Catholic priest would be responsible to be sure that you were properly instructed in the Catholic faith before you were received into the Church. I hope this is helpful and am available if I can answer any of your other questions. I would suggest that you contact your local Catholic pastor to assist you. Your name is very familiar to me – have you written before? Are you from Bellmore? Also as a member of the Armenian Apostolic Church you would enter the Catholic Church as a member of the Armenian Catholic Church. You would be most welcome to worship in a Latin Catholic Church but this is a question that would affect matters regarding marriage and the baptism of future children. We have a rich tradition in the Catholic Church and are a group of “cousin” Churches – 21 in fact – that make up the Catholic Church. – From your background you would become a member of the Armenian Catholic Church.
Sincerely yours,
Msgr. Robert Morrissey
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5347 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Jun 4th, 2008 11:58 am |
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The following is taken from the Guidelines for the Reception of Holy Communion issued by the U. S. Conference of Catholic Bishops:Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches withwhom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 § 4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3).
Certainly no Catholic should seek sacraments from an Orthodox priest if a Catholic priest is available, but it is my understanding that in cases of necessity, a Catholic may receive sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from an Orthodox priest. However, the disciplines of the Orthodox faith should always be respected.
As for a restriction that a member of the Orthodox faith enter the corresponding Catholic Church, it has never been an issue in my experience because there are no Eastern Catholic parishes in my state. Those Orthodox who have chosen to join the Catholic faith have done so in the Latin Rite. It would make sense, however, in those areas where a parish of the corresponding Eastern Catholic Church is available. As the letter indicates, any Catholic may attend mass/Divine Liturgy in any Catholic church, so the only real effect is when one seeks the indelible sacraments such as baptism, confirmation/chrismation, matrimony, and Holy Orders for oneself or one's children.
ADDENDUM: Canon 844 paragraph 2 specifies those circumstances under which a Catholic may receive the sacraments from an Orthodox priest:
§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.
So under the laws of the Catholic Church as expressed in Canon 844, a member of the Orthodox faith may request the sacraments from a Catholic priest, and a member of the Catholic priest may request the sacraments from an Orthodox priest when circumstances require it. Of course, the disciplines of the Orthodox faith should also be taken into consideration, and their rules generally prohibit intercommunion.
Additional information is available in this tract and this thread from Catholic Answers. See especially message #14.
Last edited on Wed Jun 4th, 2008 05:42 pm by CajunRick
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1223 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 05:54 pm |
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ROBTEACH49 wrote: Hello Everyone...My name is Bob and I have meade a decision to convert to Catholicism. I am a member of the Armenian Orthodox Church, which is very, very close to Roman Catholic...I have registered for classes this fall but I really don't want to wait...I want to convert now...I attend mass on Sunday and during week when I can...I have read the Catechism...learned about the sacraments...(I taught in a Catholic School many years ago, I graduated from a Catholic Elementary School and a Catholic College, etc)...so I know about the faith...I have subscribed to many Catholic Newspapers and Magazines (Our Sunday Visitor, St Anthonys Messenger, Natl Catholic Reporter, etc and have been reading many Catholic Books...etc...so my first question is: How can I make this conversion process run faster...I want to partake in the Body and Blood of Our Lord and am becoming impatient...I know I am ready for this...and have contemplated it for many months/years...HELP!! I live in Nassau County, NY in the event someone knows a parish/priest that might make this conversion process a speedier one...
Bob
Hello, Bob, 
Welcome to the forum.
Perhaps God will clear a rapid path for you into the Catholic Church. He knows what is best.
I came galloping breathlessly up to the front doors of the Church only to learn that the Church was interested in my learning docility, patience, humility, and obedience before extending an invitation to me. The waiting was not easy, but Mother Church was very wise.
Perhaps you will not have to wait as I did. I do understand your eagerness to receive the Lord.
You are in my prayers.
Becky
Last edited on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 09:00 pm by Intercessor
____________________
"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 208 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 09:01 pm |
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I "became a member" of the Protestant churches, and I "was received into" the Catholic Church. To me that illustrates the great difference between the individual taking charge in Protestant-land and the individual submitting to a greater authority in the Catholic Church.
Also, the way we reply to the question "Where do you go to church?" illustrates a deep difference. I used to say "I go to the Presbyterian church," and now I say "I'm Catholic." Membership in a Protestant church is spoken of in the same way as the high school you attend, or the grocery store where you shop. ("Where do you go to school?" "Where do you get your groceries?") It's kind of part of your resume and maybe just a preference. To be received into the Catholic Church (espescially through the RCIA process) changes who you are.
It sounds as if you will be able to come in quickly, yet I hope, Bob, that you will find a way to slow the process down for yourself and let yourself experience being changed from who you were to who you will be as a Catholic
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