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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1627 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 08:49 pm |
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Recently, concerns have been expressed to me from a valued member, that this forum is becoming too oriented to "Q&A" at the expense of the more communitarian / pastoral / support group & aid / spiritual aspects.
I reiterated strongly that I felt that this was not the case at all; nor that it is or ever was my own goal, as the lead moderator. Both aspects are extremely important and will be maintained on this forum, because both are fundamentally part of the Forum Guidelines:
All questions are welcome here, as long as they are sincerely asked. If you are here to debate Catholic doctrine or to tell us why we're wrong, go elsewhere. Our reason for existence is to answer sincere questions from those seeking information about the Catholic faith. If you cannot seek information with an open mind and accept honest answers, then you belong somewhere else. It is not necessary that you are considering joining our faith, but it is necessary that you are honestly and sincerely seeking information about the Catholic Church and are willing to discuss it in a friendly tone. . . .
We are here to answer questions about Catholic dogma, doctrine, teaching, and practices. We are not here to debate them. We answer questions; we do not argue about the answers.
The Guidelines, as you can see, emphasize much more the "apologetic" aspects, yet I think "pastoral" concern is assumed, as an "unspoken premise," if you will, as part of charity and the best way for human beings to get along and learn together. The Catholic faith is best shared (and received) in the context of friendship or at least friendly, cordial relations. It has always been a crucial goal of this forum to offer personal support and encouragement to inquirers into Catholicism. It's the empathy and common experience that appeals to many (if not most) people here, and (I believe) probably what draws them in, in the first place, in most cases.
Even if it is not expressly stated in the Forum Guidelines, the "pastoral support" is clearly central to the mission of the Coming Home Network as a whole, as one readily observes at the top of the front page of the CHNI website:
The purpose of The Coming Home Network International (CHNetwork) is to provide fellowship, encouragement and support for pastors and laymen of other traditions (Protestant, Orthodox, etc..) who are somewhere along the journey or have already converted to the Catholic Church. The CHNetwork is committed to assisting and standing beside all inquirers, serving as a friend and an advocate.
This forum is completely in accord with this statement. I want to stress this as strongly as I can, in order to reassure anyone who has some other impression.
Since I've been here, and for some time before, CajunRick and David W. Emery have also been overseeing the forum; formerly as fellow moderators and now as "Helpers" but still as active as they have been (and other CHNI staff members such as Laura and Mary Clare are also moderating as well). I appreciate their work very much. I wrote in an explanatory post about apologetics, a month ago:
This board is not solely apologetics-oriented, by a long shot. It's also (I'd say about equally) a "pastoral" and support group, which is a more "personal" approach to the faith. Helpers David Emery and "Cajun Rick" excel in that approach, and the three of us have always thought that we complement each other in that way. Rick's specialty is catechetics; David's is spirituality, and mine is apologetics. All three are important and necessary; indeed crucial, for a well-rounded Catholic faith.
Anyone can observe this "division of labor" in action: David is usually (but not always) writing in a more "counselor" or "spiritual advisor" vein; Rick usually (but not always) in the catechetical mode (because that is what he is), and I am doing mostly (but not exclusively) apologetics: answering inquiries and defending Catholic distinctives. Rick is also a bit more of an extrovert (or more "friendly" in a way) than David or I are. God made different personalities and temperaments. The world would be awful boring if we were all exactly the same.
But there is no contradiction between our different approaches and emphases. Apologists like myself, unfortunately, often have to deal with the baggage of stereotypes of what an apologist is supposedly like as a person or personality. I wish I could meet all of you (and I hope to meet many in Columbus and Steubenville at the conferences). I thoroughly enjoy meeting and talking to people, and having fun and fellowship together.
Apologetics is a specific field and approach, and not all of what I am about as a person: not by a million miles. The fact is that I (again, like most apologists I know) am not merely some sort of "logic machine," as some seem to think. I'm interested in all aspects of Christianity: mysticism and spirituality, experience, the emotional aspects of faith . . . I am a passionate lover of both music and history. I'm fascinated by women's intuition, gender differences, and intuition in general. I think intuition is profound and helpful, and a different, equally valid form of knowledge.
I became a Catholic not at all primarily because of logical syllogisms but because of moral theology and a deep-down (God-originated) sense of right and wrong. I'm also interested in defending Christianity based on the longings brought on by nature (being an avid nature lover and virtually a "nature mystic") and our deepest "non-verbal" aspirations in our imagination (I have a whole web page about that).
So there is FAR more to me (and to most apologists, as I am trying to make a broader, general point by using my own example that I know about firsthand) than simply logical apologetic arguments and "question-answering efficiency", as if I am some one-dimensional cardboard character.
I only bring this up (there is a connection; I'm not just rambling on and on!) because I feel that the hostility towards apologetics that is sometimes observed may account to some degree (how much I don't know) for the impression that some people are having as to the "direction" of this forum, as if it were slowly but surely drifting away from the "non-apologetic" aspects. 'Taint so!
Members receive support and encouragement from many others. It's not just moderators or helpers who make newcomers feel welcomed. It's everyone together. It's truly a group effort. When someone shares that they are struggling with a non-Catholic or even anti-Catholic friend or spouse, or with various issues of "the journey", generally ten or more people will offer personal support right away. It's a wonderful characteristic of this board.
Many times I or other moderators or helpers may not have had the same experience (e.g., I never had to endure the hardships of a mixed marriage or loss of a job, as with a former pastor). But many people here will fall into those categories and can and will offer empathy (which is a wonderful thing).
As just one example of many that could be mentioned, we can observe in this thread started by a new member, ten separate "welcomes" in short order. Then a second person announced membership in the same thread and was welcomed by six people. The second person wrote, " I do have to say that the atmosphere here is very friendly." I agree! I hope this is the case and always will be. I think our members are a marvelous group of people and I'm very proud to be associated with this community.
Why, then, would someone get an impression that friendliness and community are starting to fall by the wayside on this forum, in favor of a straight "Q&A" emphasis? I don't know. I wrote in a PM today:
Folks seem to be widely expressing appreciation for the "atmosphere" on the forum. . . . I don't see any lack of community at all (and I'm constantly reading or skimming hundreds of posts, as a moderator). When people first show up, they receive a tremendous outpouring of affection and support. Many times folks express thankfulness for what they see here. I do a lot of apologetics, true, because that is what I am, why I was brought on, and one of the primary purposes of the forum (to answer inquiries about the faith). It always was and always will be. But I see no shortage of personal support or community (and wonder why you have that impression). . . .
The "direction" of the forum is the same as it has always been. I would disagree with your feeling that the personal / communitarian element is being minimized or underemphasized. In fact, there is probably proportionately more of those kinds of posts (quite a bit more) than the apologetics stuff that I tend to write. I know, because I am looking through all the threads and I see what is going on. . . .
You can help make the forum be those things that you would like it to be. In fact, you have already had an influence, as I may make a post containing some of my thoughts I've expressed here, stressing that community and support will continue to be a major part of what we try to achieve on the board. Hopefully that can help others understand what we're trying to accomplish (those who may feel as you do about "forum direction" and so forth).
As I promised, I have made a post about this concern, and I hope this will be helpful to clarify where the board is "going" (at least in my opinion). Please, always feel free to give feedback on the forum itself (threads like this one where "larger board issues" are discussed). It exists for you and your needs: both theological and personal (especially personal needs related to conversion). We're here for you. You can always write to me or other moderators and helpers with any concerns or feedback that you may have (and I hope you will reply to this post too and share your thoughts).
I was more than happy to receive a letter like that today, and as a result I wrote this post to hopefully make things more clear and to help encourage the warm atmosphere I think we've achieved together on this board for all who participate (even if they only read and lurk and never utter one public word: you -- yeah, YOU!  -- all are part of this, too!).
Last edited on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 11:36 pm by Dave Armstrong
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2074 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 11:14 am |
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Both/and — apologetics and pastoral support and community. Just as with so many things in the Catholic faith which can’t be expressed in either/or fashion, this forum embodies a “full service” approach because that is what the human heart needs: everything. Nobody is self-sufficient. Most of all, “full service” implies divine grace. Grace is something that is available to anyone willing to dispose himself for it. Our part is to act as a go-between to get you together with God’s fountain of grace — the body of Christ, his Church, and her sacraments.
After nearly six years on the CHNI forum, one would think I ought to have better things to do. I don’t. I work elsewhere for a living because I have to; it’s one of life’s necessities. I’m a volunteer here, however, because I want to be; that’s what the “Helper” designation in my title is all about. Bringing people to God and God to people is the single most rewarding thing I’ve done in the 64 years of my life. Some 47 of those years have been spent studying and experiencing the spiritual aspects of Catholicism — yes, from even before I became Catholic, back in my teenage years. And I am quite aware of how much this knowledge and insight is needed and sought after, because I am always being asked personal, private questions about faith, vocation, morality, aspirations, spiritual insight and inner difficulties. We deal in private because your questions and needs are private. So I may not post on the open forum as much as some of the other moderators and helpers, but I’m usually available on a daily basis. I try to check in several times a day, even when I’m sick (which is often; I have a number of congenital conditions).
I don’t do much apologetics, I don’t do much social chatting. I don’t have to, because we have other people here who do those things very well. We get a lot of prayer requests — far more than many religious fora. (“Fora” — that’s the plural of “forum.” At least for some folk. Others think “forums” is a better approach; I won’t deduct points for it.) I may not provide a personal reply to each one (hey, there’s somebody here who does that on occasion, too), but I take to heart your requests and never fail to offer a prayer. As a spiritual person, I’m big on prayer.
One thing this forum was criticized for a while back was that it was too chatty — not enough substance. Now we are being told that there’s not enough chat and fellowship. You can’t have it both ways, folks. We’ve bent over backwards, we’ve done what you asked. Where have we failed? As I said, I specialize in dealing with people on an individual basis. If you want something tailored just for you, how much more “custom made” can you get?
Now several people have asked me recently about stuff going on “behind the scenes.” What needed to be done to provide a solid legal footing for the forum was taken care of several months ago. Some few organizational changes were made; nobody was fired. Rick and I are still here. Dave Armstrong has been around the better part of a year now, and I think he’s doing a top-notch job. He’s different from Rick and me, of course, just as Rick and I are different. And that is good. The diversity and complementarity are part of the overall attraction of the site, giving it a broader appeal and a wider selection of expertise.
One thing you will have to get used to, however, is that I’m an introvert and naturally shy and quiet. This means you will have to make the first move. I’m there for you, but you have to ask your question before I can answer it. I’m there for you, but you have to express your need before I can point the way. And this is the way it should be when people, especially outsiders, begin to investigate the Catholic faith. We cannot be shoving it down your throat; you have to reach for it, bite off a chunk and taste it for yourself. We serve, you taste. We give, but you must ask for what you want.
This board’s direction depends largely on your input. You want something? You set it in motion. There are a few places we will not go; for instance, we cannot sanction frank sexual talk in public, even if it is serious in nature. Yes, there some big moral and practical questions that that need to be answered on occasion, but this kind of topic (as I’m sure you will agree) is much more suited to a private one-on-one with an expert. And there are certainly a few erudite areas of knowledge that nobody here is conversant enough in to make worthwhile conversation. But by and large, if it has to do with religion and one or another of us knows something about it, we’ll give it a shot.
To sum up, this forum is not like the others because it cannot serve its purpose by being anything other than what it is. It is a “safe haven” for those of you who need a place to rest, somebody to trust. It is rigorously faithful to the Church it supports, but charitable to others. It is attuned to the needs of the person in a crisis of faith, to the person who needs a steady hand and solid advice on how to handle the rocky road of human relations as one moves from the suburbs — or the wilderness — into the city in the center of the garden, the New Jerusalem, where there is no need for a sun “because the glory of God is its light and its lamp is the Lamb” (Revelation 21:23).
David
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left coast mystic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | La Honda, California USA |
| Posts: | 131 |
| First Name: | Marcee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nondenominational charismatic, Presbyterian, long-time lover of the RCC |
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 11:52 pm |
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Just my observation: this is the only forum I've been part of where there is a real sense of safety, and I know from having to create a safe environment in my profession how much continual work that takes to create and keep. This sense of safety is why the people who participate in the forum consider themselves to be part of a supportive community, and why they are so welcoming to new members. I want to thank Dave, Rick, and David on behalf of all of us for the commitment you have to us and your concern for our well-being. And I particularly thank you for your prayers on our behalf, for your prayers are effective.
Marcee
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Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1627 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 04:21 am |
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| Thanks so much for your feedback and kind words, Marcee. They mean a great deal to me, and I'm sure to the other Moderators and Helpers as well.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1224 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 04:37 am |
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I've been around here a while and have, more than once, made it clear how I feel about you three gentlemen. To borrow from an old joke--
If I stop loving, admiring, and appreciating you, I'll let you know. OK? 
You are in my prayers.
Now keep the faith; for where else (on the Internet) can we go?
Thank you for your selfless service.
Intercessor
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"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 208 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 10:45 am |
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I've always appreciated the differences in Dave, Rick, and David, and I thank you for further explaining your areas of expertise -- apologetics, catechetics, and spirituality. Yes! I understood that those were your areas from the e-mail responses in the forum, yet I like having the labels, too. Thanks, Dave.
In reading David's response, I was struck by his insistence that we must ask for what we want. That is true even with Jesus. Remember when Blind Bartimaeus cried out to Jesus, who was passing by, "Son of David, have mercy on me!" Jesus didn't immediately come over to him and heal his eyes. No, first he said, "What is it that you want?" Even though the man's affliction was evident, Bartimaeus was asked to articulate what it was he wanted. We, too, are asked by God to put into words what it is we want, and it's a good way to live life with others here on earth, too.
I thank the three of you for faithfully responding to our requests for information in the broad areas of apologetics, catechetics and spirituality, and also for the wealth of detail you freely give from your personal experiences as well.
I like the balance of chattiness and erudite explanations on the forum. Of course, I'm now a both/and kind of girl, being Catholic (and still amazed that I am Catholic -- that I actually swam the Tiber!).
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NanaR
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 166 |
| First Name: | Ruth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Born JW, born-again Catholic (Tiber Swim Team 2008) |
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 01:32 pm |
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I am very thankful for this Forum. I find it a wonderful place to get answers to my questions as well as a place for finding supportive friends.
On the apologetics side, my questions get answered here almost immediately (and usually with answers from several viewpoints). By comparison, I have posted questions to "Ask an Apologist" over at the Catholic Answers Forum and have never had a single one answered. I use their "search" function to find information, but many times my questions have a personal aspect that I need addressed.
I am not saying this to put the other Forum down in any way, just to say that I am very glad that this one is here and is so responsive. I have recommended this forum to many people as the very best place to get answers to their questions.
The only problem I ever have here is when the Forum goes down  .
So, many thanks to David and Dave and Rick and all the members!
Ruth
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When you bend down to help someone up, that is the best exercise for your heart. -- Fr. Noe, 2007
http://nanaruthann.blogspot.com
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2074 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 05:46 pm |
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NanaR wrote:Many times my questions have a personal aspect that I need addressed.
This is why we have chosen to concentrate on the person more than the issue. An answer is to little avail if it isn’t responsive to the inquirer’s needs.
David
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1627 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 06:02 pm |
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Hi Becky,
I've been around here a while and have, more than once, made it clear how I feel about you three gentlemen.
Yes, you have, and we appreciate that very much and feel the same about you. You've always been a wonderful, "model" participant on this forum.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1627 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 06:23 pm |
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Deeply heartfelt thanks also to Jane and Ruth, not just for the kind words, but for your observations that further the atmosphere and "ethos" that we're trying to foster here, with the indispensable help of outstanding members like you.
There will always be a few disgruntled people in any forum (or those who aren't dissatisfied in a negative way, but simply find that a forum is not suited to their particular needs and present estate in life, which is fine) but if a large majority of folks who are active on any given forum are satisfied, then I think it can safely be said that the forum is fulfilling its purpose and doing some good, completely by God's enabling grace, as always.
I'm delighted to work here. It could be more busy many times, for my taste (as I tend to work at a very rapid pace), but that is pretty much my only frustration and more than outweighed by the many good things about this forum. Nothing's perfect this side of heaven, but I'm very proud of this discussion board, because of you: the people who make it up and participate.
We could all attack each other, puff up our egos with worthless "gotcha!" argumentation that edifies no one, and discuss trivial things, as much of the Internet (even, sadly, theological venues) seems obsessed with anymore, but we don't. We discuss the most important things of life: the spiritual things, that have eternal value and consequences, and in a cordial, beneficial, mature, "adult" fashion. I always knew it was possible. May the example spread!
And this is due mostly to YOU (the members en masse). You've made this place something special and different. If it wasn't, believe me, I wouldn't be here at all because I became completely fed up with board discussion on the Internet years ago (and wrote about it in no uncertain terms). That's one reason I appreciate this board so much: because of its vast difference from almost all other fora that I have observed. Not to say that there are no other good boards (I'm sure there are), but I've found them to be extremely rare, over my 12 year Internet experience. If there are a few other good ones out there somewhere, I rejoice in that, but I know for sure that we have something very special here.
Kudos and hats off to you  , from this very human and flawed moderator.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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