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beachmoss
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| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
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Posted: Thu Apr 5th, 2007 10:18 pm |
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I'm just curious as to how many ladies out there wear a mantilla?
It seems, in my experience, that there are three types of ladies that wear them--older (pre-Vatican II) ladies, younger converts, and Filipino ladies.
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Annie
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Posted: Fri Apr 6th, 2007 09:01 am |
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Some older women wear them and they are always worn at the Latin Mass around here. I have one for when I go to the Latin Mass (I haven't been yet, but I am ready).
I have never seen a mantilla on a younger person. Halter tops are their preferred liturgical attire.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Truthseeker
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| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Fri Apr 6th, 2007 05:48 pm |
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I don't wear one but love to see them on women. It is actually a secret desire of mine to cover my hair and be discreet before the Lord, but goodness, I don't know if I can handle the (even more) criticism I will get from husband and teenager.
Love, Laura
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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sweetyface17
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| First Name: | Mandy | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Lutheran, Considering Catholicism |
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Posted: Fri Apr 6th, 2007 06:37 pm |
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Hey! Not all of us are the halter-top type.  Some of us would have to do a lot of fasting to wear one of those and not look like a Polish sausage.  Anyway, I , personally am a big supporter of the mantilla. I've never worn one, but I think they're really a beautiful idea. Maybe I will once I join.
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beachmoss
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| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
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Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2007 11:32 pm |
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sweetyface17 wrote: Hey! Not all of us are the halter-top type. Some of us would have to do a lot of fasting to wear one of those and not look like a Polish sausage.
Unfortunately, I've seen too many "Polish sausages" crammed into tiny tops and bottoms at mass! It's tacky enough for the bean poles that can pull it off, but for those others...(shiver!)
Anyway, Mandy, I hope you will consider wearing one (mantilla) when you join.
And, Laura, give it a try. Perhaps your husband and teen will respect you for it.
Annie, I hope you can get to a Latin mass soon! They are beautiful! But don't save your mantilla just for the Latin mass. Wear it to every mass you go to!
Thanks for posting, ladies!!!
Beth
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sweetyface17
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Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2007 11:41 am |
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I never understood how anyone could be comfortable in a mini skirt and a tiny little top. Tell me, which end do you hold in if you drop a pencil? It's so much easier to wear clothes. I will admit that many of my skirts are above the knee. But I have a 35 inch inseam. It's kind of hard to find something long enough. I usually wear capri dance leggings with them though. I probably will wear a mantilla, though.
~Mandy
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Annie
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Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2007 11:53 am |
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I'm shaped like a tree, straight up and down, so men's pants fit me best. I have a nice navy blue suit though, it has pants and I can wear one of those silk crossover ties with it that makes me look like a stewardess on Snooty Airlines. I will wear that with my mantilla and freshly shined black shoes to the Latin Mass.
At other churches I dress down, way down. At least I am covered all the way.
I have noticed one lady who wears the same Dickies pants that I like and she wears a work shirt and a mantilla. The effect is really very striking.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Therese Z
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Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2007 06:16 pm |
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I purchased and wore one when I went to the Latin Tridentine Mass. I enjoyed the experience, but I don't know how to separate the nostalgia (because I'm old enough to have worn head coverings in grade school, they were actually part of the uniform, a beanie or chapel veil) from the idea of being humble before the Lord.
I wouldn't start wearing it at my own parish because it would be (1) misunderstood, (2) really conspicuous, and (3) not part of a concerted effort by women to do it for united reasons. I wouldn't mind, though if someone else got it going!
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BettyBoopToo
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Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2007 08:12 pm |
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beachmoss wrote: I'm just curious as to how many ladies out there wear a mantilla?
It seems, in my experience, that there are three types of ladies that wear them--older (pre-Vatican II) ladies, younger converts, and Filipino ladies.
I personally would love to wear one, My mother bought one for me about three years ago. I don't know if there is a difference between wearing the black or the white one's, As my mother bought me a black one. It's the size of a doiley (sp) Not the kind that hang down on your shoulders like the other ladies wear. I'm glad you asked this question! I'd like to hear some more about this tradition of attire.
At this time I think I can count about 4 ladies in our parish that wear one, they all are a bit older than I am, Only one is the same or similar nationality that I am and the other's are of different nationalities. I thought maybe they were raised in a community that it was the norm to wear one.
Considering the other ladies my age do not wear one, I'd probably feel very self conscience about it and also feel like I was trying to appear more Holy than I really am or something. That's not what I think of other's wearing one though!
I've seen the strangely dressed young ladies and men at my parish, And would never even consider wearing anything like the girls do know. I was fortuneately raised by a very conservative mother and she would not hold back on telling me how disappointed she was and how she taught me better, if I showed up to Mass with anything inappropriate on. That goes for my MIL too.
Every Spring time father will add a page of his Mass Etiquette. I don't find any offense by it and think that it's a very good idea. Personally I'm glad he's courages and just states thing's how they are. If I were to put something on that my husband felt inapproprate he too would say something. A couple years ago when I was getting ready to leave on a friday AM to help the secretary in the church office, I had a short sleeved blouse on. My husband asked me if I was going to attend the noon mass? said if I was I better change my blouse. I had already gotten a sweater out to wear over my blouse but he didn't know that.
http://www.st-thomascamas.org/holymass/etiquette.htm
I also find it very comforting that father teaches us the truth, Even when it's not convienent or some people may not like it.
Great Question, Cannot wait to read other's replys
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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Ali
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Posted: Fri Apr 27th, 2007 09:22 am |
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This was from a homeschooling list I'm on, I asked the author if I could repost her words, and she said I could
Hello - I wear a mantilla to Mass and I just bought a little mantilla caplet for my 2 year old daughter. Although I have read so much supporting ladies covering their heads (founded in Corinthians) via many websites, I must admit that there's more to my wearing mine. First, it is my grandmother' s and when I wear it I remember to pray for her. And from the minute I put it on, symbolically, it changes me. I feel more reverant. Like John the Baptist, those words come to me, "I must decrease, He must increase. It is humbling. Unlike other methods, this simple action reminds me Whose presence I am in. Finally, we are supposed to set ourselves apart from "the world". Don't you immediately think of God when you see a Priest in his collar or Nuns in their habits, praise God! That outward sign becomes an inward sign...lex credendi, lex orendi..."as we believe, as we pray". I focus right to prayer and humilty as I cover my head. This small gesture "speaks" to me....and I am peaceful when I look upon another in her "lace". Coincedently, or more likely through God's Divine Providence, I read this blog yesterday on the very topic! "Veils and Hats in Church "A thorn in the pew" has an interesting discussion about wearing hats and veils in church, with some compelling links. I always have my head covered at Mass. It is a practice deeply rooted in Scripture and Tradition. Many people seem to have some scruple about veiling themselves when the other women in the church are bare-headed. To me, it is important to follow one's conscience, not what the people around one are doing or not doing. I do not judge the women who choose to go bare-headed and I hope they are not judging me, but if they are, that is their affair. As for imitating those around me, if I did that, I would not be living a Catholic life. Ladies often say to me: "I wish I were brave enough to wear a mantilla." Dear Ladies, it requires courage to face death and to shed one's blood for the Gospel. It does not require courage to wear a piece of lace or a beret on one's head. For some, it may be a matter of overcoming human respect. If you are drawn to head coverings, then WEAR one and do not worry about what other people think. Dymphna also had a post on this topic recently. HERE (her hotlink didn't work on the email) is a post of mine about mantillas from a few months ago. And another article." from http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/index.html in +JMJ+,
(In Jesus, through Mary and in union with St. Joseph) Allison
Sorry to bump this up, but I thought it was an excellent post. I hope it helps someone.
Ali
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beachmoss
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Posted: Fri Apr 27th, 2007 05:01 pm |
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Ali,
Thanks for the bump. And thanks for the post! That was very good! The writer really conveys the reasons we wear it. I read one time--I don't have a clue what it was or who wrote it, but it was written by a child of pioneers. He said his mother always sat down for her prayers and Bible reading in a corner chair and put a cover over her head, and the children always knew not to bother mama while her head was covered because she was talking to the Lord then. I would like to start covering my head at home for prayer, but I think my monsters would bug me anyway. But I guess they would just have to get used to it.
Betty,
Thank you so much for your church's mass etiquette! Wow! I wish our priest would do something like that! Maybe I'll show it to him. So do people in your church follow the guidelines?
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Darlene
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Posted: Fri Apr 27th, 2007 08:03 pm |
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beachmoss wrote: Ali,
Thanks for the bump. And thanks for the post! That was very good! The writer really conveys the reasons we wear it. I read one time--I don't have a clue what it was or who wrote it, but it was written by a child of pioneers. He said his mother always sat down for her prayers and Bible reading in a corner chair and put a cover over her head, and the children always knew not to bother mama while her head was covered because she was talking to the Lord then. I would like to start covering my head at home for prayer, but I think my monsters would bug me anyway. But I guess they would just have to get used to it.
Betty,
Thank you so much for your church's mass etiquette! Wow! I wish our priest would do something like that! Maybe I'll show it to him. So do people in your church follow the guidelines?
Dear Betty, in reference to what I have underlined in your post, you are referring to none other than Charles H. Spurgeon's mother, the English preacher from the 19th Century. My husband and I used to read about Spurgeon together and he mentioned the great respect he had for his mother, especially while she was praying. The reason she did this was because there were many children in the Spurgeon household and their home was rather small.
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Ali
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Posted: Fri Apr 27th, 2007 09:50 pm |
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Darlene wrote: The reason she did this was because there were many children in the Spurgeon household and their home was rather small.
Darlene
Yeah, I suppose I would pray an extra lot to if that were the case Pray for peace and my sanity to remain intact.
Ali
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beachmoss
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Posted: Fri Apr 27th, 2007 11:14 pm |
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Thanks, Darlene!
That must have been what I read!
Beth
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Talithacumi
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 01:00 am |
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Therese Z wrote: I purchased and wore one when I went to the Latin Tridentine Mass. I enjoyed the experience, but I don't know how to separate the nostalgia (because I'm old enough to have worn head coverings in grade school, they were actually part of the uniform, a beanie or chapel veil) from the idea of being humble before the Lord.
I wouldn't start wearing it at my own parish because it would be (1) misunderstood, (2) really conspicuous, and (3) not part of a concerted effort by women to do it for united reasons. I wouldn't mind, though if someone else got it going!
I agree with Ali's post by the person who quoted Spurgeon, in the sense that I do think it is important not to worry about what others think, but to follow our own consciences.
On the other hand, I would say that I understand Therese's reasonings for not wearing a mantilla, too. Btw, I, too, like the idea of mantillas being worn. Unfortunately, in my parish, I haven't seen a mantilla worn - even by the really old ladies - for years now. 
But the thing is, I seem to remember reading somewhere (my memory's terrible - I don't remember where) that we should not wear or do or say things at Mass that can be distracting to others because it disrupts the flow and Mass is supposed to be unitive. The eyes and attention of others should not be drawn towards us, but towards the Lord.
So where does one draw the line between doing what feels to a person like a way of honoring the Lord, and not disrupting the unity of the Mass by distracting others?
Do any of you think that it might help if a bunch of ladies got together and all did it? Or would that still be distracting to everyone (they would wonder what's going on)? Or maybe it could be announced in the bulletin or at Mass that the ladies of the parish would be wearing mantillas and so letting the congregation know not to be surprised (that might be a little too silly).
I wonder... would it really hurt if people looked at a person strangely just one time? They would get used to it after awhile and would learn to think nothing of it. Or maybe for those parishes that have bulletins or newsletters, someone could write in a little blurb about why they think wearing mantillas is a good idea (and why wearing halter tops isn't!). That way the idea would be out there, but it would be more subtle and maybe even get people to considering it.
Anyway, just musing...
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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beachmoss
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 01:25 am |
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Talithacumi wrote:
But the thing is, I seem to remember reading somewhere (my memory's terrible - I don't remember where) that we should not wear or do or say things at Mass that can be distracting to others because it disrupts the flow and Mass is supposed to be unitive. The eyes and attention of others should not be drawn towards us, but towards the Lord.
So where does one draw the line between doing what feels to a person like a way of honoring the Lord, and not disrupting the unity of the Mass by distracting others?
I agree, but I also believe that if people want to stare and put their focus on the women in the mantillas then they should work to refocus their attention on what they should--Jesus. But I know that human nature and Satan will try to draw our attention away from the ordinary. But I'd rather receive attention as the humble woman who veils herself rather than the one who allows cleavage to hang out top and bottom!
One beautiful thing about wearing a mantilla, that I think some women miss, is that in a practical way it forces you to concentrate on the altar. The lace hanging by your eyes acts like a horse's blinders to focus your attention forward. If all women wore one they wouldn't be so concerned with others affairs. And if all body parts are properly covered then the men have nothing to distract them.
But you asked where does one draw the line. I think, from my own experience, that you should do what your heart tells you. I began wearing one in a church where several ladies did. It was not unusual there. The church I now attend there are two of us who wear one. I don't feel that I stand out. Of course I don't know if they are whispering behind my back. But to my knowledge I've never been refered to as the lady who wears the veil. In fact I've been asked a couple of times where I've gotten mine. A man even came up to me one time and requested that our religious articles case carry them (we now do), and he'd like to see more ladies wear them. I wanted to say, "so why doesn't your wife wear one?" Maybe she will now that we have them available.
I don't see anything scandalous about modesty and humility. And if people want to find sensationalism in that...
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Darlene
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 04:38 pm |
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Where does one buy a mantilla? Is any other kind of head covering just as acceptable? For example, the pastor's wife in our nondenominational church often wears a Menonite head covering.
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 04:59 pm |
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Darlene wrote: Where does one buy a mantilla? Is any other kind of head covering just as acceptable? For example, the pastor's wife in our nondenominational church often wears a Menonite head covering.
Mantillas should be available at any Catholic store. Any appropriate head covering is fine. I say "appropriate" because I don't think a backwards baseball cap is exactly the right thing to be worn to church.
When I was a kid, the girls had to cover their heads for mass, and the nuns carried a box of Kleenex.
Aquinas and More has half a dozen mantillas and chapel veils available at various prices.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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BettyBoopToo
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 06:43 pm |
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Darlene wrote:
Betty,
Thank you so much for your church's mass etiquette! Wow! I wish our priest would do something like that! Maybe I'll show it to him. So do people in your church follow the guidelines?
Your very welcome Darlene
I really love how father just tells us how it is. He Shepards a pretty tight ship. But we can count on TRUTH when he teaches. When he came to our church four years ago, I think some things were done before that he felt needed changing, So he's had to make many changes. He's only 33 and when he came he imediately started changing things and has continued to get us taught exactly by the book so to speak.
Everyone loves him, So I'm assuming they are not fighting any of the changes.
I love the security of knowing that he'll not lead off the path.
I'm sure you could print the etiquette page and show it to your priest. You could even e-mail Jeanne the Secretary if you wanted permission, She's nice and a dear friend of mine. If you want her e-mail address, just send me a PM. I don't feel right about putting it on the Forum without her permission. But she'd not mind if I gave it to you or you can get it right on the church web-site.
and yes, I've noticed quite a change in attire. If anyone wears anything a bit off color, they are normally visitors. When I came to our parish, I had developed a very strong mis-trust of all pastors in general. After spending nearly a year in RCIA, I was able to trust him. He's a sure blessing to us all and we love him dearly.
Ali: I really enjoyed reading the post you put her from the other lady. It helps alot in my thoughts of wearing a mantilla.
Personaly I wish it were a requirement. I've just always felt un-worthy of wearing one, I'm sure it's my misunderstanding of the tradition. I'd really like to know the significance of wearing white or black. I'd just assume if you were single, celabit (sp) or pure you would wear wht and a married mother would wear the black. But from my observation, I've seen married women wearing White and non wearing black. So I'm not sure? If anyone knows, I'd be very interested. Thank You!
God Bless
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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Therese Z
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 10:01 pm |
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The "color code" is, I believe, more cultural than anything. Some cultures say white for unmarried women, black for married or widowed. Others just pick something that suits their clothes. I bought a black one for my one recent use at a Tridentine Mass, because I'm not the youngest egg in the carton and I'm divorced-and-annulled.
There's a website called halo-works that has a big line of mantillas in all colors. Google the name and you'll find the link.
The point raised earlier: if a bunch of ladies in my church got together to begin wearing a head covering, I'd go right with them. But I think other changes have to take place first: at least in my parish, we'd have to start having the occasional Latin Mass, Novus Ordo or Tridentine. Our pastor would probably have to express nostalgia, at the very least, or start leading up to the teaching of women covering their heads, to urge it along. We'd probably have to start urging the girls away from altar service, even, and most of all, we'd have to move our tabernacle back to the center behind the altar (ours got moved a long time ago to a side chapel, a place of reverence, at least, but not in sight of the congregation).
In other words, a lot of dominos would have to be lined up before they could be pushed over and older practices like a genuflection before entering the pew (not necessary without a visible tabernacle, many just bow and some just slide right in) and head coverings would be accepted as anything but an oddity of a few people.
I don't think wearing a mantilla would be efficacious (a nice old-fashioned nunny word, that one) in my own parish. Not yet, anyway.
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Ali
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 11:41 am |
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Another article from my homeschool list lady
http://www.lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=228
I haven't checked out the rest of the website yet.
Personally, I find it very intriguing to wear a veil, and lines up pretty close to what I'm comfortable with as a woman. I intend to ask a few Catholic women about this as I see them.
Ali
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Credo Catholic
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Posted: Sat May 19th, 2007 02:09 am |
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I just discovered this discussion tonight and find it fascinating! I have seen a few women wearing mantillas in our church, and figured they had moved here from someplace where it was customary, since most women here don't wear them. I don't think it will come back as a norm. Women won't like being required to cover their heads. At the same time, they are beautiful and some of you say you feel more reverent while wearing them. I'm all for that. As for distractions, we have babies crying, canes falling in the floor, people getting up to go to the restroom, an occasional cellphone ringing. The mantilla would be the least of these! Do you wear them as you drive to mass or put them on when you get there? Our pastor has made comments about proper attire, but it seems some young people didn't hear.
Cajunrick: When I was a child our family went to Mexico City during Christmas one year, my Dad was doing some work there. On Christmas Eve, there was a huge throng of people outside a large very old Cathedral, it was standing room only for mass. Being protestant, we didn't go in, but now I understand why some of the women were putting kleenex on their heads.
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Therese Z
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Posted: Sat May 19th, 2007 11:50 am |
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