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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5312 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Mon Jun 16th, 2008 05:47 pm |
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Vatican City, Jun 13, 2008 / 05:50 pm (CNA).- Today as President Bush and Pope Benedict XVI met at the Vatican, the English newspaper, The Telegraph reported that Bush may be considering converting to Catholicism at the end of his presidential term.
The Telegraph indicated that various Italian newspapers have been commenting on the news, especially Il Foglio.
Il Foglio explains that the circulating rumors could be correct: "anything is possible, especially for someone reborn like Bush.” Yet, similar to former Prime Minister Tony Blair, "if anything happens, it will happen after he finishes his period as president, not before. It is similar to Blair's case, but with different circumstances."
A friend of President Bush, Fr. George William Rutler, who converted to Catholicism in 1979, stated that Bush respects how Catholicism was founded by Christ who appointed Peter as the first Pope. "I think what fascinates him about Catholicism is its historical plausibility," said the priest. "He does appreciate the systematic theology of the church, its intellectual cogency and stability." Fr. Rutler also mentioned that the president "is not unaware of how evangelicalism -- by comparison with Catholicism -- may seem more limited both theologically and historically."
According to the Washington Post, President Bush currently belongs to a Methodist church in Texas and attends an Episcopal church in Washington, D.C.
However, in recent years, the head of state has developed a strong relationship with the Pope and has made known his deep respect for Catholicism. The Telegraph noted that prior to his presidency, Bush's political advisor invited Catholic intellectuals to Texas to explain the teachings of the Church to the president. Bush has also appointed Catholic judges to the Supreme Court, has selected Catholic speech-writers and consultants, and has read the Pope’s theological books.
In April, prior to the Pope’s visit to the U.S., the Washington Post quoted William McGurn, one of Bush’s former writers who stated, "I used to say that there are more Catholics on President Bush's speechwriting team than on any Notre Dame starting lineup in the past half-century."
The Post’s story detailed the likelihood of Bush's possible conversion to Catholicism by quoting those close to the head of state. Rick Santorum, former U.S. senator, labeled Bush as a Catholic president. “I don't think there's any question about it. He's certainly much more Catholic than Kennedy."
While President John F. Kennedy struggled to balance his Catholic upbringing and politics, many of Bush’s positions on ethical matters such as gay marriage, abortion, and stem cell research are in line with the Church.
Yet, Bush has received criticism from Catholics who point out that his invasion of Iraq is strictly against the teachings of the Vatican. However, the Post mentions that prior to the war, the president met with Catholics to discuss just-war theory. “White House adviser Leonard Leo, who heads Catholic outreach for the Republican National Committee, says that Bush ‘has engaged in dialogue with Catholics and shared perspectives with Catholics in a way I think is fairly unique in American politics.’”
The above article is reposted with permission from the Catholic News Agency.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 799 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 19th, 2008 05:59 am |
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This is of course very interesting. And I definitely hope that he does convert and that that makes a lot of evangelicals who back him think more about the issues. However, I feel torn. For his sake and the sake of the church always being happy to take in more people I definitely hope that he comes home and would welcome him. I definitely would prefer that. Where I feel torn is that he seems to be extremely unpopular and thought rather harshly (perhaps too much so) by many people that I know. There are always sound bites and whatnot and people trying to focus on him looking bad. I think he is probably intelligent, yet if all you hear or see is certain glimpses of things he appears to be a bit off at times. And of course most people who I know who dislike him do so strongly because they see him as responsible for a lot of people dying in our country and in Iraq. Now, I try to keep from being too much of opinion. If I had to choose one I would lean toward having been against the war, and I did feel like the reasons that were given to justify it ended up being largely untrue. At times, I may have even believed that Bush knew that certain allegations were not true and went ahead with them anyway using whatever he could to justify. Yet, I do tend to want to trust his sincerity and say that I certainly can never know all the facts for one, and secondly, even if some of the justifications for the war were a bit exaggerated, I truly believe he thought he was doing the right thing, and perhaps it was the right thing. But it just didn't seem that way to me or to a lot of people.
My point about feeling torn is that I want him to be Catholic, but I wonder if it could be bad press for the church for many. I would think some people would want even less to do with us knowing that he was Catholic. I also hope that if I personally were made fun of for this fact (some of my friends like to kid me) that I would somehow stand up for him and the church while not having to personally agree with all of his politics or decisions, or having to say anything too harshly against him.
I know the prayer that will do: "thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
Brian
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2037 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 19th, 2008 11:14 am |
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This is a significant point to ponder, Brian. Perhaps the answer lies in another question: In what camp was his intellectual commitment years ago when he assumed the presidency, and how has it changed since then? In other words, is he finding that Catholicism conveniently fits his original agenda, or is he in the process of a real change of mind and heart here — what we could call a genuine conversion not only in the specifically religious realm but across the board?
Recall your own conversion. Was it only about theological questions? Of course not. It was about a whole new way of thinking, a whole new way of life. And so it may well be for others, including President Bush. Actions he took early in his presidency may not reflect how he has come to view and understand them in the course of the years. He may now regret some of his earlier decisions. But he cannot go back in time and undo what he did; he must live with the decisions that are already made. He must work around prior mistakes.
Bush was interviewed by EWTN’s Raymond Arroyo recently, and I must say that the president was well prepared and had some significant things to say in response to the questions he fielded. What I noticed was that, while there were areas in which his thought seemed stable from beginning to end, there were others in which he had migrated to a new understanding. He managed to avoid saying, “I was wrong about this.” But he did give the impression that he had learned much in the course of his years in office and would be willing to apply that wealth to what remains of his term — and beyond, to what remains of his life.
What has not changed is the public mindset and the criticisms people at large level at their president. This is where I see the intransigence, the refusal to listen. I say this in spite of the fact that I, too, have opposed the invasion of Iraq from the beginning. I say this, too, knowing that early on Bush’s approach to topics such as embrionic stem cell research and the Muslim intifada were not entirely satisfactory. But I believe that over time his knowledge has deepened and this new understanding has brought him closer in heart to the authentic Catholic view in many of these areas. So the public criticism we hear today, dwelling as it does on acts and opinions he espoused years ago, has not kept pace with his own personal growth. It has become, I believe, largely irrelevant to the work this man has accomplished.
Viewed in such a manner, I believe historians years from now will be divided on the value of Bush’s presidency. Their view will depend largely on how well they discern and appreciate the odyssey of this man’s mind and heart and perceive his motives and acts in areas outside the ones for which he is popularly criticized.
David
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 832 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 19th, 2008 03:49 pm |
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if anything happens, it will happen after he finishes his period as president, not before That may not be because of anything to do with politics but sheer scheduling- The man will be out of a job in January Tony Blair's conversion was in large part politics- English law prevented him from being Catholic. As far as the motives and changes in either man- just look at all of us on the board- we take a different path and time frame to come home. The trigger that started our journey is unique to each of us even if similar to others. Have any of us had a change in heart over our lifetimes to date? I have- I was anti abortion as a teen -went over to Bangladesh at 17 and helped care for women and girls my age dying of tetanus (lockjaw) caused by illegal abortions. Death from tetanus is something that even now causes such a nightmare for me that I am phobic about injuries in my family since we are around livestock etc. Drives my family nuts that I go so far overboard on small wounds that happen while they are with the horses or goats or other livestock or in the area of the stables/arenas. Oops I am digressing here- I then started to listen to argument for legal abortions- many of those women or girls (12 and up) were raped by relatives, or if they were servants by the men in the household etc. In Muslim countries females that are not secluded are considered to be asking for rape and they certainly have no rights to refuse an abortion so for a few years I followed a weak stance of "while I would never have one I see that maybe they should be legal for those who do choose that route" but by my mid twenties I was firmly back in the anti abortion camp. So have my views changed? Yeah- I went from uninformed anti- played with fuzzy logic of maybe to fully informed anti abortion. I know some of my fellow nurses that were pro-abortion, having formed their opinions on a scientific level who became firmly anti abortion after getting pregnant themselves and realizing that their baby was a living human from that first ink stripe in the stick- are they any less sincere for having changed their minds on the issue?
David says everything much better than I do.
My family who live in Canada can be visious in their dislike for Bush ( lucky they can't vote ) but that is a knee jerk reaction about anyone who even hints that their faith might be more than one hour on Sundays- if there is nothing better to do that is.
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Adopt from your local Humane Society- Please spay or neuter your pets
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 832 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 19th, 2008 04:47 pm |
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Sad to say- if he does convert I know of some protestants firmly in his camp who will no longer be so
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Adopt from your local Humane Society- Please spay or neuter your pets
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 827 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Fri Jun 20th, 2008 01:12 am |
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| He only needs them in his camp until Jan. 09.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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jacki
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| Joined: | Sun Oct 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | Essex, England, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 72 |
| First Name: | jacki | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | baptised in the church of england (I am a brit) ... |
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Posted: Fri Jun 20th, 2008 08:08 pm |
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| English law does not prevent a prme minister from being a Catholic - lack of character did. English law prohibits Catholics or marriage to a Catholic of a member of the royal family. Hence Summer/Autumn or whatever her name is converting before marrying Peter Phillips
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