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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri May 23rd, 2008 02:37 pm |
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 Colorado Springs, May 23, 2008 / 05:01 am (CNA).- A physics professor has persuaded an Oxford laboratory to revisit the question of the age of the Shroud of Turin, the reputed burial shroud of Jesus Christ. The professor argues that carbon monoxide contaminating the shroud could have distorted its radiocarbon dating results by more than 1,000 years.
In 1988 and 1989 scientists at three laboratories drew on the results of radiocarbon dating to conclude that the shroud was a medieval forgery. They dated its creation to between 1260 and 1390 AD.
The Denver Post reports that John Jackson, a physics lecturer at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs, has hypothesized that even minimal contamination of the shroud by environmental carbon monoxide could have skewed the dating by 1,300 years.
Professor Christopher Ramsey, head of the Oxford University Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, has agreed to test Jackson’s hypothesis. Ramsey said that other forensic and historical evidence indicates the shroud is much older than radiocarbon dating results initially indicated.
"Science still has much to tell us about the shroud," said Jackson, a devout Catholic who heads the Colorado Springs-based Shroud of Turin Center. "If we are dealing with the burial cloth of Christ, it is the witness to the birth of Christianity. But my faith doesn't depend on that outcome," he told the Denver Post.
Jackson must prove a viable pathway for carbon monoxide contamination. He is working with Oxford to test linen samples subjected to various conditions the shroud has experienced, including outdoor exhibitions and exposure to extreme heat during a fire in 1532.
In 1978, Jackson led a research team given unprecedented access to the shroud. The team determined that the shroud was not painted, dyed or stained.
The Shroud of Turin bears faint brown discolorations that form the negative image of a man. A positive image of the shroud was produced only with the arrival of modern photography.
Forensic data indicates the bloodstains on the shroud are real and were stained on the cloth before the image of the body appeared, the Denver Post reports. Stains around the head are consistent with punctures by thorns, while the scourge marks are consistent with those made by a Roman whip. A large puncture wound on the man’s side is also consistent with that made by a Roman spear.
Though medieval iconography portrays Jesus nailed to the cross through his palms and the front of his feet, archaeologists have found the bones of a Roman crucifixion victim nailed through the wrists and heels.
There is no consensus regarding what medieval methods, if any, could have created the shroud.
Though the Vatican keeps the shroud locked in a protective chamber at the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy, the Catholic Church makes no claims about its authenticity.
The above article is reposted with permission from the Catholic News Agency.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 216 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri May 23rd, 2008 05:08 pm |
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Fascinating. Thanks for sharing this with us.
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 969 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri May 23rd, 2008 09:10 pm |
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 Thanks for the post, Rick. In the end, one sentence spoken by the Colorado scientist spelled out the bottom line after all's been looked at and said n' done:
"Science still has much to tell us about the shroud," said Jackson, a devout Catholic who heads the Colorado Springs-based Shroud of Turin Center. "If we are dealing with the burial cloth of Christ, it is the witness to the birth of Christianity. But my faith doesn't depend on that outcome," he told the Denver Post.
It all rests on faith.
That ought to KO a lot of the usual "doubts" that our detractors in the arch-evangelical corners who want to prove Catholicism's bogus, and the atheists who never fail in showing up to use whatever tiny piece of the cloth to prove Christianity in general's completely false.
Mr. Jackson's legit. But now I'm just waiting for a bunch of "feminist scholars" from some girls' colleges named Smith, Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Mills to send their scientific pokers to see if a fake beard was put on the man shown in the shroud (whom we believe to be Jesus) only for the purpose of "proving" Mary's child wasn't male, thus "demonstrating" their "claims" for in persona Christi at the Altar.
Think I'm just kidding? I used to work for one of those girls' colleges. And believe me, I did a lot of this  and  and  and  !
Last edited on Fri May 23rd, 2008 09:12 pm by Steven Barrett
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For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 813 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Fri May 23rd, 2008 11:13 pm |
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When I consider how carbon dating was designed and calibrated, I don't think it establishes anything about anything except a bigger bank account for the seller! 
Last edited on Sat May 24th, 2008 02:42 am by BodRod
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 01:18 am |
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I thought carbon dating was how Tenn. home power checkers found out Al Gore's inconvenient overdraft on all his carbon points, or whatever thingamajig rube goldberg notion to save us from going under.
The placement of those nails, the "coincidental" placement of the other wounds, the blood splattering, etc., not to mention the overall eerie-ness of the Shroud and the fact so many people looked out it for so long and under some really trying conditions for 2,000 ought to say a lot more for it than science could.
Wasn't some carbon dating project tried a couple of decades ago? Even if Jackson finds out the Shroud of Turin isn't as old or accurate as so many of us are hoping for, in many respects, we shouldn't consider this a "setback" at all for the Church. Quite the opposite. For all we get ridiculed for our belief in the Immaculate Conception, the Virgin Birth, miracles and the legends of our saints, not to mention Marian apparitions (!) -- our Church is a real stickler for accuracy, honest and yes, even the logic behind all that's happened which others give us the rolling eye treatment, very little gets past the Vatican's experts.
Think of that the next time you see Benny Hinn (and similar mega-reverends) on stage with a row of wheelchairs in a fancy schmancy auditorium, outrageously decorated stage and his bucket brigades.
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For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 5353 |
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Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 03:01 am |
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Steven Barrett wrote: Wasn't some carbon dating project tried a couple of decades ago?
There is reference to it in the article, but the difference now is that a Catholic scientist believes he understands why the test failed, and how to make it more accurate. He is asking that it be tested again.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 05:09 am |
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Since we own it, it's about time WE have a say in the matter! 
I'm sure evil-minded cynical and callous people will say our guy's probably going to "cook the books," but seeing he's doing a carbon test, wouldn't that imply he'd have to do a little "singe-ing" instead?
Okay, a little heavy on the puns!
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For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
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Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 08:39 am |
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Someday we may be able to establish the actual age of the material but I can't see how anyone will be able to establish who the likeness is. However, that may be a good thing. Afterall, religions are an act or expression of faith (see Heb. 11). My personal reaction to it all is that it would be nice to know all there is to know about the cloth, the picture, the age, the trace evidence on the material, etc. etc. etc. but we will NEVER know everything about everything. We will eventually come to a dead end about something and there we are back to using faith. Come to think about it, as one of my teachers used to say, "We are learning more and more about less and less and pretty soon we will know everything about nothing!" It is interesting to discover things and to know things but our marching orders were to go into all the world, and spread the Gospel ...... 
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Robert
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Germany |
| Posts: | 123 |
| First Name: | Robert | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | The whole spectrum from black to white, now 100% Catholic! |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 10:41 am |
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Since we own it…
This is in fact a new development. The Shroud was up until a few years ago the personal possession of the Royal House of Savoy. It now belongs to the Church.
I was at the exhibition in Turin in 2000, and it was most impressive to finally view it after all the years of just reading about or viewing photos “La Sindone”.
They main factor for me when it comes to Sindonology is that there are three different parts to the shroud “story”. 1st is the Shroud of Turin, 2nd is “Il Volto Santo in Manoppello (see my Avitar), and the Sudarium of Oviedo.
As demonstrated by the Trappist Nun, Sr. Blandina Paschalis Schlömer, all three of these “documents” fit together.
The story and the evidence is fascinating. I have been close (within inches) of both the Turin Shroud and the Volto Santo in Manoppello, and am still looking for an opportunity to visit Oviedo. My impression is one of veneration rather than scepticism. This is especially true of the “Holy Face” in Manoppello.
Last edited on Mon May 26th, 2008 10:44 am by Robert
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Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
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