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Robert
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Germany |
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| First Name: | Robert | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | The whole spectrum from black to white, now 100% Catholic! |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 02:51 pm |
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This came up on a German Website:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/11/AR2008041103327.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Now that would be a sensation, Blair and now Bush!
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Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 616 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 03:10 pm |
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 Well daggone it! This here "Catholic closet" is startin' to get crowded what with President Bush and the Secret Service crammed in here with me! 
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cyanheaven
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| First Name: | Callie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist/ Bapticostal/ Baptist/ "BaptoCatholic" |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 03:11 pm |
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Wow, this article is really interesting, especially to someone who lives less than 30 min from Crawford.
Thanks for it!
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cyanheaven
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| First Name: | Callie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist/ Bapticostal/ Baptist/ "BaptoCatholic" |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 03:12 pm |
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Haha Marshall, it's good to hear you admit it.
I have a feeling its a lot bigger than people realise.
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 832 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 03:24 pm |
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| Interesting
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rbo4u2
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
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| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 03:43 pm |
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 Hmmm. Suspended Judgment
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Annie
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| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:00 pm |
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| This was first "reported" in the Italian press in a tabloid. there is no reason to think that President Bush will convert. This has been dealt with on Fr. Zuhlsdorf's blog too.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:23 pm |
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| While I was watching Raymond Arroyo's interview with Pres. Bush, this exact thought came to me, what a joy it would be for him to join the catholic church the way Tony Blair did. They were kindred spirits in many ways as world leaders. I had a funny feeling about it but chalked it up to wishful thinking!
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foundthelight
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| Joined: | Thu Mar 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Central, New York USA |
| Posts: | 34 |
| First Name: | Willis | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Ex Calvinist/Reformed. Roman Rite Catholic as of 3/22/08! |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:28 pm |
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I won't hold my breath.
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JillD
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| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
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| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:33 pm |
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Just want to say to you, Willis, welcome to the Church! I came in last year and sponsored my best bud this year. It's a beautiful thing!
Jill
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:34 pm |
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I wish I saw this earlier this morning, I'd saved myself the trouble of making coffee!
Hmmmm, Dubya as the first real, not honorary Catholic president, as Clinton's the first "black president" -- it's still too mind absorbing considering the history of this nation and its mixed attitudes towards both the Catholic Faith and Holy See.
I read through the article and it shouldn't be a major shock to the political system if he does convert. Shouldn't and won't, however, are two opposites when when ideological considerations get thrown into this potential kitchen sink of of a potential major controversy.
After all, any one of our Supreme Court Justices could fall suddenly ill and have to resign. If the president's been brought in or about to Cross the Tiber he's probably going to wish he could duck under one of the Potomac's bridges for a while.
On the humorous side, I couldn't help but laughing to myself thinking what liberals must've been muttering to themselves just reading where Karl Rove had his office blessed by a Catholic priest. (I'll agree with them if they think an exorcist should've been called in on the day Rove left his job.)
Who among us wouldn't want to have special vision capabilities that'd enable us to look into the offices of Al Mohler, Jim Dobson, Franklin Graham, et al just to see the looks on their faces upon reading this story. Why they'd be as red as a Cardinal's hat, especially Mohler's and Dobson's. Who among us couldn't find reason for a little self-justified smirks at reading learning the President " ... "is not unaware of how evangelicalism -- by comparison with Catholicism -- may seem more limited both theologically and historically." Hope these ol' boys had a nurse nearby when they saw these words.
What a way to put it-- evangelical Protestantism " -- may seem more limited by comparison with Catholicism;" well, folks -- to borrow a Dubyaword that's really misunderestimating things, not to mention whatever, and I mean whatever, reaction we might envision coming out of the realms of Mohler, Dobson and Franklin, and folks.
Yes, all the signs are there, and have been for some time. But it's still awfully mind-boggling to consider this scion of this predominately WASP nation's leading quintessential political families (and yes, the Bushes can arguably point out that they've been the most successful in terms of elected offices held--and most importantly--what kind they were)--and the ultimate symbol of WASP ascendancy--may convert to Catholicism while in office.
This is very heady stuff, and I'm surprised at how well it's been kept at such a low-key level of interest.
Well Bob, the Fatherland has its first woman Chancellor, and we'll finally get our first REAL Catholic in the Oval Office. Stay tuned ...Last edited on Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:37 pm by Steven Barrett
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For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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foundthelight
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| Joined: | Thu Mar 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Central, New York USA |
| Posts: | 34 |
| First Name: | Willis | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Ex Calvinist/Reformed. Roman Rite Catholic as of 3/22/08! |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:52 pm |
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If George was a real Catholic he would listen to the Pope on the subject of the use of force vs diplomacy.
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Didi
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 182 |
| First Name: | Didi | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic; almost left; Now an On-Fire Catholic! |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 07:22 pm |
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I've heard these whisperings for a long time. A couple of years back there was a picture of the Bush family in their private quarters at Christmas time. There was a statue of Mary on a table in the background. George W.'s brother Jeb converted to Catholicism some time ago.
Who knows? At any rate, he needs our continued prayers!
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BD
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| Posts: | 46 |
| First Name: | Brett | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Non-denominational evangelical, Mennonite (Anabaptist), now Evangelical-Anabapti-catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 07:52 pm |
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cyanheaven wrote: Wow, this article is really interesting, especially to someone who lives less than 30 min from Crawford.
Thanks for it!
I used to live in Waco when I attended Baylor for a doctorate in theolgy. Actually, Baylor played a huge role in my Latin Rite leanings.
BaptoCatholic, huh? I know what church you go to! (If you are still Baptist, that is). Fantastic church.
If you go to Saint Joseph's (I think that is the one), look up Father Timothy. The guy is class.
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cyanheaven
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 08:06 pm |
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 Yes I worked under Dr. Williams closely as an undergrad. So there's a chance, if you were there not too long ago, that I might have known you. D. H. Williams and Dr. Woods classes especially were formational for me.
Yes I Do go to St. Joseph's I really like the Deacon there, he's class as well.
If you know my church and the Baylor religion dept, I assume you've heard about the new chaplain at Baylor then, if not you should look it up. You might find it very interesting...
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 08:25 pm |
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f George was a real Catholic he would listen to the Pope on the subject of the use of force vs diplomacy I am not saying whether the war is just or not- I am not disputing the Pope either but I would ask perhaps there were facts that the Pope wasn't made privy too that would have decided things differently- perhaps not.
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Pani Rose
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| Joined: | Fri Oct 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Irondale, Alabama USA |
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| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 02:30 pm |
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Didi wrote: I've heard these whisperings for a long time. A couple of years back there was a picture of the Bush family in their private quarters at Christmas time. There was a statue of Mary on a table in the background. George W.'s brother Jeb converted to Catholicism some time ago.
Who knows? At any rate, he needs our continued prayers!
I have been saying this for a long time now too. His brother being Catholic could also be having a big influence on him. The one I saw was an icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help. I think that, like Blair, after leaving office, he will come into the Church. After all, where else could the pope have gone that he would be greeted with trumpeters? It was beautiful, but almost like something out of past ages. Bush has certainly never treated any other 'dignitary' like that, even going to the airport to greet him. It may be my imagination - but I think signs are pointing to Rome.
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
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| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 05:58 pm |
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Before we get all worked up about W's "catholic leanings," especially in light of his most recent appointee to the Supreme Court, let's not forget who he originally nominated before he tapped Samuel Alito.
Harriet Miers: (Lord help us!) Remember what a peachy-keen "church-going Christian" that nominee was? Try running that line nowadays past former Amb. Joe Wilson and his wife, the "outed" former CIA operative Valerie Plame.
And -- When IS this war on terror going to ever end? If Bush and his neocon planners and minions, some of them Catholics no less, were seriously interested in following their Church's teachings about war and peace, they sure as hell wouldn't have come up with the two unending wars we're fighting now.
All the flag-waving, photo-ops, aircraft carrier landings and set spiels wouldn't have washed away any of the blood of a close relative of mine, much less the tears of his parents, had he been killed in a bomb attack recently in Afghanistan--in a war that was supposed to have, and damn well should've--been won in December, 2001. Nor will all the nicieties of packaging do much for the eight Afghan families who lost loved ones and the twenty-two others whose members were wounded.
Thanks to God, my relative is alive, and will soon be returning home. He'd already been in close combat and nearly lost his life then. But he never should've been there in the first place because we had Osama bin Laden trapped and holed. Our opportunity was outsourced away. And how does that square with St. Augustine's theory?
I supported him; but I'm really shaking my head!
I honestly wish I could be more sanguine, but there's something about all this we should be more concerned about. Just as with Tony Blair's conversion and now this flurry of excitment over W's possible conversion -- shouldn't we be asking what price conversion when it comes to big shots who still have a lot of baggage to answer for?
Just as we should be ever vigilant against the sneaky machinations of the Rudy Giulianis of this world, and the shameless suck-up artists like Newt Gingrich -- I hope the Church in Her wisdom will start asking some very serious questions about W's policies especially insofar as they stand in sharp contrast to Catholic teachings on war and social policy issues. There are still many people shaking their heads over the ways the Bush brothers handled their duties as governors of Texas and Florida insofar as the death penalty is concerned.
These aren't popular things to bring up and we don't want to say "no" -- but I think a higher bar should be established when it comes to high, and I mean very high, elected public officials; lest we find ourselves dealing with future Manchurian Candidates with Rudy Giuliani's mindset. Think of the " ... well, look at what he, she, they ... got away with ... fights this might bring forth if we just open the gates without establishing a certain bar.
Good Lord, think of all the hoops and hurdles so many people who are not in the public light have to go through, especially those dealing with past unsuccessful marriages -- and what headaches and heartaches these have already proven to be for them. Why, then, shouldn't public officials, some of whom, even though their acts were done in line with their duties as public officials--might have blood on their hands--be called upon to answer for these acts before being accepted?
I hope I haven't offended anybody here, but the more I think about this matter, the more it troubles me. It shouldn't and I don't want it to, in fairness to the President, but George Bush isn't going to be just a regular "rank and file" Catholic, even inasmuch as I'm sure in my heart that he'd give anything to be should the day come when he's ready to Cross the Potomac/Tiber.
We all want that crossing to be a good one, for all, especially the Church.Last edited on Wed Apr 30th, 2008 06:00 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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Kim M.
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 12:00 am |
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Marshall said:Well daggone it! This here "Catholic closet" is startin' to get crowded what with President Bush and the Secret Service crammed in here with me!
Callie said:
Haha Marshall, it's good to hear you admit it.
And Marshall has that dern Baptist Barge in here with him, and it keeps jabbin' me in the back! He needs to keep it parked on the Tiber. Don't worry, Marshall. No one'll steal it! 
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"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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tedjenczewski
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| First Name: | Ted | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Presbyterian, revert Catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 04:44 am |
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| Hey Marshall, Come on out.
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JasPax
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| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 12:24 pm |
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EMarshallBuckles wrote: Well daggone it! This here "Catholic closet" is startin' to get crowded what with President Bush and the Secret Service crammed in here with me!
Then Ted wrote: "Hey Marshall, come on out."
_________________________________
I posted this before and got no response from Marshall. He must have been taking a nap !!! 
It is: You guys have to give Marshall some slack. After all, he's from a town that doesn't know what state it is in.  How about that Marshall?
That's a joke, son.
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James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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beachmoss
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| Location: | Simpsonville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 01:15 pm |
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Steven,
You put it so eloquently!!!! My first thought on reading the article was, "How can the Church allow the anti-Christ to join her?" Your statements were much more charitable than my thoughts. W's first confession should probably run non-stop for a year at least!
Beth
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
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| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 02:38 pm |
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Hi Beth,
Thanks for your comments. Your remark about the length of W's first 'fession ("Midlands Valuesspeak") reminded me of a line Jimmy Buffett included a recent song about confessions of a beach walker (I'm bereft of full memory powers this a.m., or running at W's full speed) -- anyway, back to a real, albeit happily and honestly incorrigible Catholic, Buffett, who asked the priest if he had a "week."
Let's hope he gets a priest with a good sense of humor and a "take no bullcrap attitude." Ah, let's see, yes, there's a good priest named Father John Corapi. Maybe he'd be interested. Wouldn't you love to see the reaction on W's face when Fr. Corapi uses one of his best phrases "happy horse manure" to describe anything he considers an excuse coming from the prez?
I'm not sure how confessions for converts are handled because I'm a "cradle Catholic" and for all but one or two times I've never had anything but the old fashioned kind of confession in the little cubicle. Even if Bush has the newer and more informal kind of setting, the priest might want to place a bucket of water and a piece of pine (over it) just outside the door to remind the prez this isn't going to be as easy as facing the Washington press corps. (No scripted questions or pre-selected questioners.)
All those neocons went over the top when it came to seeing who could come up with the worst possible form of torture to get the baddies to 'fess up. Why use that old medieval stuff when we can give 'em plenty of Joel Osteen's "sermons," or Crefalo Dollar's and John Hagee? On the other hand, maybe waterboarding's not AS BAD as something(s) I've just mentioned.
As to W being up there with the "antichrist," well I know where you're heading on this and while I want to agree with you more fully, I'm kinda thinking you might have the wrong end of the ticket in mind. Besides which, I can't help wondering if W's fast enough to keep up with the antichrist. W's still in Forrest Gump land. The poor guy doesn't even know we're in a recession and everybody short of Ol' Scratch himself's been trying to tell this man the economy's burnt to toast. But when you keep doubting what's plainly obvious to much of the consternation of many lesser fortunate people in this country, you can still get away with fooling yourself that you can get away with (just talking about and admiring) Catholic Social Teachings on poverty/econ. injustice) and avoid putting it to work.
If Cheney's not the antichrist, then maybe Rummy still qualifies, even though he's free to write about and make a whopping profit from his war crimes; which ought to be considered a crime by itself while our guys and gals are still fighting a war he should've wrapped up by December, 2001.
Perhaps the big event will come when McCain's poll numbers are tanking badly again, Obama's finally finished off by Wright, and Clinton's ready to make the final push (with Bubba held on a REAL tight leash). McCain's boyos and the Guardians of Privilege will be all too happy to have W pull the mother of all distractions possible so as to regain some ground.
By that time who knows, John Hagee and Jeremiah Wright might team together to form a third party candidacy to beat all whack-job third rail, oops, party candidacies. And when the dust is all settled from that, W will probably have changed his mind about locating his presidential library at SMU and moved it to Ave Maria University in Florida. (Better there than my alma mater, St. Thomas University on Florida's other side, in Miami.)
Sometimes even the most outlandish possibilities can be far more interesting than even our wildest fantasies, or nightmares.
I'd better watch out. Somebody in Homeland Security's probably hacking in and scribbling notes, possibly to the effect that my next move will be to start singing the Internationale on this May Day.
Makes you wonder what it might've been like if Nixon thought of converting.Last edited on Thu May 1st, 2008 02:47 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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BD
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 03:04 pm |
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I hope the President converts, but I doubt he will. His connection to these Catholic intellectuals and policy-shapers is idealogical, not theological.
I would hope that if he did convert, he'd be transformed through the sharing of the eucharist to promote a civilization of love, a true culture of life, rather than a culture of American elitism and war profiteering. As mentioned above, I'd hope he'd consult and obey the Holy Father's guidance on diplomacy and the injustices that stem from war.
I think one of the things the American church needs is to realize that our view of America as the first universal society; that is, we think everyone can be America if only they had our money, our education, our freedoms, our lifestyle...this idea is potential idolatrous. In fact, the only gathering of humanity that is truly universal is the Church herself, with allegiances that extend beyond national borders and social classes. The American church (Catholic and Protestant) really needs stronger presentation of Catholic social teaching which undoubtedly offers strong words on abortion and the family, but also on war and poverty. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see a President dedicated to all of these. What a witness that would be. Not holding breath.
I am no fan of the President. I'm no fan of any politician or party. But as a friend recently reminded me, I still have to love him. As G.K. Chesterton quipped, "Jesus told us to love our neighbor and love our enemies, because they are usually the same person."
Last edited on Thu May 1st, 2008 03:21 pm by BD
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kimdyuma
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 03:32 pm |
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| You know I struggle to be obedient to the Church's social justice teachings- in a perfect world they make a lot of sense but in our not so perfect world - well while they remain the ideal, in actual practice they can be a hard thing. As far as Bush is concerned -I didn't like him and didn't vote for him the first time around BUT I openly acnknowledge that he was the best person in the white house for 9-11. I do believe that Gore would have been a disaster in office at tht time. In all honesty i think any politican loses integrety at some point and to some extent becuase they ALL have to dance with the devil at some poin t in their carreer. I live in a military town and whether the war is just, not just or whatever the military people who have ben over to Iraq and Afghanistan have a differnt view of things than what you hear on CNN. Many people think that Obama or Clinton will be a change for the better- I would like to see them proved right and me proved wrong for the sake of our country and economy but I honstly doubt that they have the magical answers to fix us either. In all fairness I don't think that it all boils down to one person at the top in any country but also to everyone else in the governement and society too. If society really want change and John Q Public was comitted to changing HIS everyday life then society Would be changed... and my foxfire isn't working a | | |
