 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
mrsbmoo
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 307 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 16th, 2007 10:57 pm |
|
In answer to a comment about a side issue in another post let me explain my daughter's objection to the Catholic church. She joined willingly last June and honestly is usually a sensible, responsible teen. Like all of us she felt uncomfortable with confession but had no strong objection just no appreciation. She enjoys the liturgy, never complains it is boring. What bothers her is that she feels the church unfairly condemns homosexuals. She feels they are as capable of true love with the same sex as heterosexuals are and since this is true, it is unfair to condemn them. She is considering whether she would like to be Episcopal since they marry same sex couples. So you ask, when no one in her family, even extended, believes this where did the belief come from?
She comes from a evangelical background which was very condemning and confrontational with homosexuals and I remember at one point while listening to a program on the topic on Evangelical radio, one of my girls suggesting killing all homosexuals since they were evil. That was a shock to me but I guess the tone of condemnation had given her childish mind that impression. I talked about how this was not at all what God said but maybe Chelsea took it as the Christian position. As well, she has/had a friend whom she played with when he was 9 or 10, who has now as a 14 year old, come out as gay. Even as a younger child he played dolls and such and people told him he must be gay, which I believe had something to do with it. She knows him as a normal, lovable person not some freak so I guess she has trouble reconciling her fondness for him with the evangelical picture of conniving perverts out to convert the world to their lifestyle or even the Catholic Churches gentler condemning of the expression of their sexual behavior. She also reads student message boards and meets gay people who she sees as likable people and sometimes have been treated cruelly by people who disapprove of their homosexuality.
So I honestly believe it is out of compassion for homosexuals as people that she feels this way. Because of this, I have not pushed arguing the issue with her. She knows what the church teaches and she knows that among the homosexuals my husband and I have known, most were unhappy people without a sense of peace and purpose. In our experience those homosexuals who fall in love, and have lifelong monogomous marriage like relationships are a small minority. Much more common is those who are unhappy and seeking fullfillment in numerous semi-anonymous sexual encounters. This is just our experience with those homosexuals we have happened to meet in the course of life and other's results may vary. She has talked about wanting to be some kind of missionary and I wonder if God may calling her to a minstry with homosexuals in the future. So my strategy has been to pray for God to show her the truth in the matter.
____________________
Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 10 months and 17
|
|
|
DrDave
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 226 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 12:47 am |
|
One possible way to approach this situation is to ignore the "homosexual" part and focus on the church's teaching on marriage.
I once asked my 13yo daughter (hypothetically) if she thought it would be wrong for me to have an affair outside of my marriage to her mother. She said "Yes". (Big supprise)
I then asked her "why?" "because it would be hurtful" - "to who" "to Mum and to us kids". So far so good.
"Would it still be wrong if I had the affair the day before we got married?" - "Yes" - "The day before we got engaged?" - "Yes".
Now for the big one - "What about the day before I met her?"
Big pause, thinking music...."I think so"
In your case you might then ask what about if I had that affair with another man? - even if I thought I loved him more than life itself he would never be the mother of my children....
Regards Dave
|
|
|
mg57
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tolland County, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 180 |
| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 01:23 pm |
|
Becky -
There’s a lot to consider here, especially when trying to communicate in today’s culture to others that don’t understand the vocabulary of the Faith.
Pope John Paul II has gone a tremendous way in introducing a new vocabulary and understanding called the "Theology of the Body", which provides a fresh "language" for communicating to people who have a default "turn-off" to church language.
Here are some introductory resources including some on the Theology of the Body and Natural Law, which can help provide a basic understanding of the issues in your post -
Humanae Vitae – Ralph Martin with guest Dr. Janet Smith
http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/resolve.asp?rafile=choicesweface505.ra
Catholic Answers – guest Joseph Nicolosi
http://www.catholic.com/audio/1998/real/ca980701.ram
Catholic Answers – Natural Law – guest Dr. Janet Smith
http://www.catholic.com/audio/2001/real/ca010319.ram
"Surgical Sex" - by Paul McHugh, First Things
Paul McHugh is University Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University. http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0093.html
The Couple To Couple League – Q&A on contraceptive acts.
http://ccli.org/nfp/contraception/index.php
EWTN – GENERAL AUDIENCES: JOHN PAUL II'S THEOLOGY OF THE BODY - Pope John Paul II
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM
John Paul II's Theology of the Body - Article by Christopher West
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0055.html
God bless.
|
|
|
BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 812 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 08:30 pm |
|
I suggest going VERY carefully in this area. I think the Church and several prot. churches are going to wind up eating their words on homosexuality like they did over the sun going around the earth issue. From what I have read, the research is mounting on the side of genetics not choice. Years ago homosexuality and some mental illnesses were chalked up to poor parenting, child mis-treatment and even eating habits. One by one, those ideas have been proven wrong and I believe homosexuality is going to go the same way. Now, ..... before all the Bible thumpers out there jump all over me, may I point out the NONE of them followed nor support the old rules on priests making a medical diagnosis or puting their wives out of town for 1 week for the birth of a boy or 2 weeks for the birth of a girl; ALL of which is found in the same area of the Bible as the rules regarding homosexuality. In other words, the statements regarding homosexuality were a belief of the times but are being proven not true.
I suggest (#2) that we spend our energy spreading the Gospel, helping the poor, treating the sick, sharing the Holy Eucharistic, supporting our brothers and sisters in the Church, working on our own Christian behaviors and leave the judgments up to God. 
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
|
|
|
Juan
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | unregister | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | unregister |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 09:23 pm |
|
It doesn't sound to me as though she knows what the Church teaches about homosexuals.
One, because you say:
What bothers her is that she feels the church unfairly condemns homosexuals.
The Church condemns homosexual behavior. People who practice homosexual behavior condemn themselves because they have chosen to adore the creature instead of the Creator.
Does she know what the Bible says about people who practice homosexual behavior?
Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."
How does she feel about people who have sex outside of marriage? Does she understand that sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin? Does she understand that homosexual behavior is essentially sex outside of marriage but worse because it distorts the natural order?
Or is she too young to be exposed to these things?
There's a book I recommend to young adults titled "the Good News about Sex and Marriage." Some chapters are too graphic for the very young, in my opinion. But you might want to read it and see if anything there could help you explain the issue of homosexuality and its disordered nature to your daughter.
Also, because you say:
She feels they are as capable of true love with the same sex as heterosexuals are and since this is true, it is unfair to condemn them.
Everyone is permitted to love, love breaks no law.
- Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
- Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
- Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
I'm a married man and I can love my friends wife. I'm not allowed to have sex with her. My son can love his sister's girl friends, so can my daughter love her girl friends. And vice versa. But they aren't allowed to have sex with them.
And God forbade the marital union of man and man or woman and woman.
2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.
It is against God's natural order because He commanded that we be fruitful and multiply.
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141142 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
The Church doesn't teach us to hate people who perform homosexual acts. She teaches to hate the sin and love the sinner.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
But She also teaches us to avoid people who have hardened their hearts to God's law.
1 Corinthians 5 1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
I will keep you and your family in my prayers.
Sincerely,
Juan
|
|
|
Juan
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | unregister | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | unregister |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 09:26 pm |
|
I suggest going VERY carefully in this area. I think the Church and several prot. churches are going to wind up eating their words on homosexuality like they did over the sun going around the earth issue. From what I have read, the research is mounting on the side of genetics not choice. Years ago homosexuality and some mental illnesses were chalked up to poor parenting, child mis-treatment and even eating habits. One by one, those ideas have been proven wrong and I believe homosexuality is going to go the same way. Now, ..... before all the Bible thumpers out there jump all over me, may I point out the NONE of them followed nor support the old rules on priests making a medical diagnosis or puting their wives out of town for 1 week for the birth of a boy or 2 weeks for the birth of a girl; ALL of which is found in the same area of the Bible as the rules regarding homosexuality. In other words, the statements regarding homosexuality were a belief of the times but are being proven not true.
I suggest (#2) that we spend our energy spreading the Gospel, helping the poor, treating the sick, sharing the Holy Eucharistic, supporting our brothers and sisters in the Church, working on our own Christian behaviors and leave the judgments up to God.
Its when people make comments like these that I really regret that we are no longer permitted to debate.
You are wrong!
Sincerely,
Juan
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5345 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 09:43 pm |
|
Juan wrote: Its when people make comments like these that I really regret that we are no longer permitted to debate.
You are wrong!
We are here to discuss Church teaching, not the morality of homosexuality.
It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that homosexual behavior is immoral and sinful. This is the teaching of the Church and will remain the teaching of the Church unless and until the Church changes her mind. I do not believe that will ever happen.
Criff has stated that he believes the Church will change its teaching some day. Since, to the best of my knowledge, this is not a defined doctrine or dogmatic teaching of the Church, he may hold that position. I disagree with him, the Church disagrees with him, and you may also disagree. And you have.
Criff has not misrepresented Church teaching in any way. Therefore, there is nothing to debate.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
JasPax
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 09:49 pm |
|
Not debating, BodRod, but you stated that evidence is mounting on the side of genetics regarding homosexuality.
There have been no credible scientific studies that prove a genetic disposition toward homosexulality. If there were we would have seen it reported in six inch headlines.
The Churches' teaching is that unmarried persons are called to chastity. And marriage is a sacrament between a man and a woman. Obviously, this is not the teaching of our culture.
I think I'll believe the Church.
Best regards from a Bible thumper.
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
|
|
|
mrsbmoo
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 307 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 10:33 pm |
|
I really didn't mean to open a can of worms about the validity of the Church's position on homosexuality. Although I admit it was news to me that they had the option of changing that position. I know the catechism admits that it may be possible that homosexuality is a genetic predisposition but says that changes nothing about the call to chastity. I have explained this to my daughter. Honestly, she talked to her step-dad about the issue instead of me. I have been avoiding talking about it as I know I am bad about hounding the kids when we disagree until they give in just to get rid of me.
I don't feel this is something I can order her to stop believing by just telling her what to believe . I can tell her I think she is wrong and why, but 14 year olds are not known for their rational judgements yet hold grudges forever. I really think this is going to take her having some real life experience that shows her she is wrong but living a sheltered life in a rural, strongly southern baptist area, she is not likely to see the sort of thing that would change her mind. I don't think homosexuals are twisted evil people but any sexual lifestyle outside of God's plan can not bring happiness and has lifelong consequences. This is one reason I have been backing off until I feel I know what to do.
____________________
Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 10 months and 17
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5345 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 10:33 pm |
|
Let's get back to Becky's original question of how to deal with her daughter. Neither homosexuality nor Church teaching are at issue here. The issue is how Becky should best handle a difficult situation with her daughter.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5345 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 10:52 pm |
|
mrsbmoo wrote: I really didn't mean to open a can of worms about the validity of the Church's position on homosexuality.
You didn't, Becky. The issue is an emotional one, and it has degenerated into debate before. We'll do our best to see to it it doesn't happen again.
Although I admit it was news to me that they had the option of changing that position. I know the catechism admits that it may be possible that homosexuality is a genetic predisposition but says that changes nothing about the call to chastity.
And I agree. As long as the Church has not defined doctrine in this area, we are free to disagree with the Church even as we are obliged to follow the teaching. It is quite possible that it already meets the criteria of infallible doctrine, but I am not qualified to make that judgment. So while the matter may not be discussed or debated here, since our purpose is simply to convey Church teaching, discussions are permitted in other venues until the Church says they are not.
I don't feel this is something I can order her to stop believing by just telling her what to believe . I can tell her I think she is wrong and why, but 14 year olds are not known for their rational judgements yet hold grudges forever.
Such is the nature of being 14. Fortunately, it is not an incurable illness.
I really think this is going to take her having some real life experience that shows her she is wrong but living a sheltered life in a rural, strongly southern baptist area, she is not likely to see the sort of thing that would change her mind. I don't think homosexuals are twisted evil people but any sexual lifestyle outside of God's plan can not bring happiness and has lifelong consequences. This is one reason I have been backing off until I feel I know what to do.
Perhaps a discussion of the biological purpose of sexuality is in order. She is probably studying biology, and the biological imperative of insuring the survival of one's genetic material. In a homosexual relationship, genetic material cannot survive. Logically it is disordered because it does not permit genetic survivability. That is a fact that cannot be denied, regardless of how one feels about the appropriateness of homosexual relationships.
For this reason, the Church has decided that homosexual acts are contrary to God's plan, which calls for us to "be fruitful and multiply". In a similar manner, the Church has decided that heterosexual sex outside of marriage is not proper because it does not provide a stable family relationship as commanded by God in the fourth commandment.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
mg57
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tolland County, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 180 |
| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 11:42 pm |
|
Hi Becky -
I shared those references that I've found to helpful in understanding the Church's teaching on this topic. Perhaps David could help here, but it's my understanding that references to the beginning development of this teaching are clearly found in Early Church writings and documents, and certainly in scripture.
You're right when you said -
- "I know the catechism admits that it may be possible that homosexuality is a genetic predisposition but says that changes nothing about the call to chastity. "
- because the Church recognizes the freedom of will we're given despite our inherent physical limitations, - ( see the Janet Smith / Natural Law audio).
If there were no freedom of will, there would be no AA, ALANON, Sexaholics Anonymous, etc., because to try to reform would be fruitless.
Imagine the consequences in a society in which everyone was genetically tested, and the recognition of the freedom of the will was denied. What would become of those if found with pre-dispositions to steal, murder, have addictions, etc., ... ? I believe Pius XII's encyclical Humanae Generis covered the genetic dimension as a response to Hitler's theory of a "master race" as opposed to whom the Nazis considered defective.
God bless.
|
|
|
Angie_Rivas1
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Downey, USA |
| Posts: | 110 |
| First Name: | Angie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 03:34 am |
|
She feels they are as capable of true love with the same sex as heterosexuals are and since this is true, it is unfair to condemn them.
Dear Becky,
I felt compelled to respond because this was TOTALLY my thinking years ago when I was way younger, but a little bit older than your daughter. It is embarrasing to admit, but I even believed "certain" abortions were okay, in case of an abortion or an illness. I was very wrong and blinded!
Keep in mind she is only 14 and she perceives a lot of "injustice" in her world. To her, homosexual couples deserve happiness as well. I have a feeling She'll come
around. Just continue blessing her and providing her with a safe environment where she trusts you and you give her the guidance she needs. I believe you will do the right thing at the right time
Blessings,
Angie
____________________
"Be not afraid" JPII
|
|
|
Ali
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 656 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 09:59 am |
|
I would present it to her as sex outside of marriage is wrong. The goal of marriage is children**. Same sex couples cannot marry because they cannot have children naturally, the way God intended.
I have never heard from a Catholic source that homosexuals are evil and need to be wiped off the face of the earth. What I get from Catholic teaching is that we need to show love to everyone, regardless of who they are.
Not everything has to make sense to us at all times. Keep in mind the scripture of thinking like a babe and eating like a babe (bad paraphrase, I know). As we grow in maturity and understanding, we gain the deeper meaning of things as God intended.
**This is where so many other demoninations have failed. IME, JW families espeically do not welcome new children. It's seen as a burden, one more obstacle to keep you from serving God to your fullest abilities. It saddened me to hear comments made about pregnant mom's at the Kingdom Hall I'm glad I was not active in that ministry when I was pregnant. Pregnancy and birth are such joyful times. I can't compare to other religions, but I think the attitudes are evident whe you compare family size of Catholic families (yes, even today) with protestant religions.
All my best for your dd, Becky. I hope she can resolve this with herself through prayer. Is there a youth minister or something geared towards kids at the parrish she could talk to?
Ali
|
|
|
Papalheart
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 10th, 2006 |
| Location: | Groton, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 7 |
| First Name: | Theresa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 11:35 am |
|
Hi Becky, and all posters,
Peace be with you.
I agree completely with previous posts that explain the position of the Church on this subject, with one exception. The Church can not change the Word of God, can not, nor will not change perspectives on Marriage, as it is not changeable. Jesus Himself spoke against fornication.
I only recently decided that it was time to share a bit of my journey back to my Catholic faith. I won't digress with extraneous information here, just the relevant point on topic. (Or at least that is my intent.)
I was raised in a wonderful, faithfilled, obedient to the Magisterium home. In wonderful Catholic schools. I went astray....... in serious area's.
For a decade of my life I lived with, and loved woman, same sex relationships. Yes, they were loving, and in my warped mind, seemed fulfilling. I had to turn myself inside out to deaden my awareness that my lifestyle was sinful. Such is the testimony to the reality of concupiscence (sp?).
However, God writes straight (LOL No pun intended) with crooked lines.
Imagine, if you will, how hard it was, I was an activist, believing that gay rights had to be won, participating in various movements to that end.
The desire to have children though, was so strong, so real. The hope to be a mother would not be silenced. In that desire came truth that stuck home. If, in my relationship I wanted to have children, how would I go about that? Obviously, to us adults, we know the options, and none of them fell into the teachings of Holy Mother Church. I wasn't actively practicing my faith, but the Holy Spirit was working strongly.
In examining the desire to raise a child, it was impossible, out of love so deep for this child not yet conceived, to wish for he or she anything short of the love that I had had growing up.
This was the first whisper I heard that detoured me from a sinful selfish lifestyle. It would be a while before I responded to the call home, LOL eventually my Merciful Lord used His proverbial 2x4 to smack me upside the head, but that is another story.
I realize that I may not convey what it is I wish to in this format, so I'll try to summarize it.
The Catholic Church has the full deposit of Faith, and complete understanding of Morals. She speaks with the authority of the keys. I knew this, didn't like it, but understood it. It was clear that I could not pick and choose what HMC was right about and believe the fundamental Truth I believed. I was never beat over the head with my sinfulness, I was loved back. Having had the most holy Spiritual Father (Priest), God rest his soul, that never ever stopped teaching me through action, and words.
It is my personal witness that if Truth is consistent, patient, and loving, He Who is Truth Himself will correct the mistaken beliefs that we form. My parents deserve to be saints when they die, they prayed and had faith, while loving me in the most difficult times a child can present parents with. They remained constant in their faith.
Be comforted Becky, your daughter at her tender age is exploring the world view. If, as I suspect, she is reminded of the Love of God, and the Truth in His Church, she will find this, eventually. We can not deny Truth, no matter how hard we try, or how long we try to do so. I will keep her in my prayers.
Pax Tecum, Dominus Vobiscum
____________________
Jesus I trust in You!
|
|
|
Juan
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | unregister | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | unregister |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 11:02 pm |
|
So you ask, when no one in her family, even extended, believes this where did the belief come from?
If she goes to public school, that is probably where she gets it from. Its hard to control what a child learns from her peers and her teachers especially in the secular environment of a Public School.
The only thing that comes to mind is that you need to educate yourself in how to speak about homosexuals in a Catholic context of mortal sin.
What I mean is that the your opening statement "What bothers her is that she feels the church unfairly condemns homosexuals" reveals that you probably speak about homosexuals in the same terms as your daughter.
Although we are defined by what we do, to speak in this way as regards this topic is detrimental to getting the point across. The point being that the Church does not condemn homosexuals. Neither God nor the Church condemn anyone to hell. Those people who practice mortal sins and persist in them until the end condemn themselves:
1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance": Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.
Sincerely,
Juan
|
|
|
sweetyface17
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 11th, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 43 |
| First Name: | Mandy | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Lutheran, Considering Catholicism |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 11:42 pm |
|
The Church doesn't teach us to hate people who perform homosexual acts. She teaches to hate the sin and love the sinner.
Hallelujah. I have a few friends who have chosen "alternative lifestyles". I, personally, have chosen not to judge one way or the other. I will continue to love my bi/homosexual friends as I love everyone else, because Jesus does. The act is wrong, perhaps, but it's God's job to deem what is evil. I've read the arguements for both sides, and I've succumbed to the fact that I am mortal, and therefore know nothing.  I can only hope that God uses me to lead them to true happiness. After all, according to Mark 2:17,
"Jesus...saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
Not that I consider myself righteous, I fall infinately short. But, we all have our vices, and if God can forgive me, who am I to condemn others?
In answer to the question at hand, I would present the Church teachings, explain the purpose of marriage, and then thell her why it's okay to still love her gay friend. In fact, the lost sheep is the one most in need of the Shepherd. Maybe her loving example can nudge him closer to the light. I wish you the best of luck. You're in my prayers.
~Mandy
|
|
|
catholicdan
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 11th, 2007 |
| Location: | Merced, California USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Danny | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | From A 2 Z now on to RC. |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 21st, 2007 02:54 am |
|
Hi Becky.
As you know and have seen, this is a very emotional topic which usually ends up in very heated debates. The great thing is, I just read what the Catholic Church teaches on this matter and to me it may help your daughter greatly.
I am a man's man as my wife will tell you. I grew up with a dad that didn't believe in crying, never told me he loved me but once after he "beat" some sense into me, and he was a bigot and still is and he hated homosexuals and was not afraid to say what he felt when a man was clearly homosexual.
My son's know how I feel about this sinful "lifesyle" but they also know that I have compassion towards them as much as I would towards friends of mine how live in sin with their girlfriends. I never allow my son's to attack homosexuals and sharply rebuke them when they do (my adult sons that is) and I have explained to them that the gay man's sin is just as bad as their sin so we need to show Christ.
I follow this teaching of the Church:
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
[Catholic Catechism]
Hope this helps.
Last edited on Fri Sep 21st, 2007 03:33 am by catholicdan
____________________
"To be steeped in history is to cease to be Protestant." Cardinal Newman
"Crux Sacra Sit Mihi Lux,
Non Draco Sit Mihi Dux"
May the Holy Cross be my Light.
Let not the dragon be my guide.
|
|
|
Current time is 08:50 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
