 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 490 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 01:43 am |
|
| Hard for me to imagine anyone wanting to be in despair, it seems it is something you are overtaken by, like all sin I suppose. Why would God condemn us for that wich we have no power to resist, I sure don't like to be in this kind of depression!
____________________
"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2522 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 01:59 am |
|
What you seem to be talking about, Mark, is a deep depression, not formally despair, although at times feelings of depression may approximate the idea of despair. I do not see any sin in feelings. Feelings are passions, and passions are passive, not active volition. As you say, we have no power to resist a passion, so it is not within the domain of free will and therefore cannot be a sin.
Despair, on the other hand, would be a considered practical position of futility, as if one could logically conclude that life has no purpose or direction and is therefore meaningless. Christians, on the other hand, oppose this theologically with the acceptance of eternal life and the beatific vision of God. These two positions are mutually exclusive. So if a Christian is overtaken by thoughts of despair, they are temptations, not sins, so long as he does not turn himself over to the loss of faith even after the episode passes. Again, I see not sin but merit in enduring such crises while clinging to faith.
David
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 490 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 02:38 am |
|
I'm not doing such a good job of clinging to faith though, not sure if I ever have. 
____________________
"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
|
|
|
setapart
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Austin, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 269 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Born Catholic, Non-Denominational Charismatic, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 02:53 am |
|
Mark,
Blessings to you, brother. I know it takes alot of courage to share your concerns like this on the forum. Brothers like David , Rick and others here have made it easy to do so.
I did check out your homepage from your profile. There sems to be some dark images mixed with some sacred ones there.
Without really knowing you on a personal level but in the spirit of humility I offer these verses to perhaps provide some spiritual food for thought:
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
(Joh 8:12)
So Jesus said to them, "The light is among you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them.
(Joh 12:35-36)
I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
(Joh 12:46)
to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'
(Act 26:18)
The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
(Rom 13:12)
For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
(2Co 4:6)
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
(2Co 6:14)
for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
(Eph 5:8-11)
For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness.
(1Th 5:5)
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
(1Pe 2:9)
____________________
But for you who fear my name, the Sun of Righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. And you will go free, leaping with joy like calves let out to pasture. Mal 4:2
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 490 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 03:12 am |
|
setapart wrote: Mark,
I did check out your homepage from your profile. There sems to be some dark images mixed with some sacred ones there.
Dark yes, but not sinful or Satanic, there is a difference. I'm not turning my page into Mr. Rodgers' Neighborhood!
Thanx for the rest of the post, very kind of you. 
____________________
"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
|
|
|
Pani Rose
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Irondale, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 750 |
| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 03:13 am |
|
I was reading 1 Corinthians 8, today. It strikes me how in some ways - at least in my mind - it relates to your question. From the New Jerusalem
1 Now about food which has been dedicated to false gods. We are well aware that all of us have knowledge; but while knowledge puffs up, love is what builds up. knowledge of something and yet not know it as well as he should; God is known by God. none of the false gods exists in reality and that there is no God other than the One. Jesus Christ, through whom all things come and through whom we exist. temple of some false god, do you not think that his conscience, vulnerable as it is, may be encouraged to eat foods dedicated to false gods? knowledge that this brother for whom Christ died, vulnerable as he is, has been lost. cause of a brother's downfall, I will never eat meat any more, rather than cause my brother's downfall.
When one falls into dispare of depression, they may know in the beginning that something is wrong, but during the course of events - somehow - it gets out of control. I think too, it creeps up on people, rather unsuspectingly - and suddenly there they are, and really have no idea of why.
Truly, only God knows!
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2522 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 03:33 am |
|
Of course you are clinging to faith, Mark. I’ve seen your name appearing quite regularly in the “online” list here. And if you are continuing to attend Mass and receive the sacraments, that is further proof, not only of faith but of virtue. And thirdly, if you are continuing in your support group, you are still full of hope and the drive to be free.
If it seems that your faith is gone, this is an illusion brought on by the passion of depression, not a reality or a matter of volition, because what you are doing shows it is a lie. You are still in control. Maybe you need to hear from someone else on occasion that you are doing all right. Well, you’re hearing it from me: unless you have returned to what you most wanted to leave behind, you are.
David
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 490 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 03:48 am |
|
| I have indeed returned to the vomit, not fully or near as much in the past, but enough. I have not been to mass in a few months, left the support group a while back, they weren't as smart as I! I've been around here because I'm not happy, I really can't remeber when I ever was. I didn't want to write this, but I didn't want you to believe a lie about me.
____________________
"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2522 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 04:23 am |
|
I've been around here because I'm not happy.
Then you are still trying, still wanting what you sought. I see improvement.
All you need is a little push, some self discipline, to get you back on track. You start with confession (you knew that, didn’t you? — hey, it’s easy!), followed by realizing that you are not as smart as you thought, just as you are saying here.
In other words, if there is a little vomit around, you clean it up and try again. It’s not a matter of failure. You are not “eliminated.” The race is won by getting off the ground and trying again. That does wonders for depression.
Listen: I battled for 30 years with a fault I couldn’t conquer. I kept going back to the Lord and telling him, “I can’t do it!” And each time he told me,“Try again. You are not the one who needs to ‘do it’ here. If you rely on me, you will see.” And eventually I did see: it’s all grace, Mark. It’s not your feeble efforts, it’s the power of God working in you because you give him permission.
Give God permission! That saying is from Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. You need to learn it: Give God permission by showing him that you are obedient. If you fail, keep trying, because that is obedience. Give God permission by doing his will. And when you can’t do his will, he will carry you until you gain strength. Give God permission by returning to him and allowing him to continue working in you. Be stubborn about it: you know that giving up won’t accomplish anything, so push off and take another run at it.
If you rely on yourself, you will fail every time. You know it. So why don’t you let Jesus carry your load? He’s a lot stronger than you. Rely on him, give him permission to carry that load — to carry you where you are not able to walk. We all have to do that, Mark, not just you. So give it a try.
David
|
|
|
Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1546 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 04:40 am |
|
Mark, Christ waits for each of us in the confessional. None of us can conquer the demons or carry the burdens. He does it for us as we return to Him over and over, admitting our mistakes and our total dependence on Him for the cleansing and the eventual victory. How steadfast and tender is His mercy.
Click here for a Prayer Against Spiritual Enemies.
Praying you return to the peace of absolution,
Becky
____________________
Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials. . .the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life. . . NAB James 1:2-4,12
|
|
|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 906 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 05:24 pm |
|
While it is never good to return to old sin and is dangerous as life is short. God is merciful and rejoices over the repentant. As long as you are alive there is hope and opportunity to seek Him. Also, sometimes it can be difficult to let go of old ways over night. It is a process and a battle. I agree as David said that we need God's strength and not our own to do it, but I also think that we are to cooperate with that strength and gfight temptation as well. But it must be using the grace given to us and not merely human resolve.
My point is, maybe you did have a bad stretch, but today is new! Now is the day for salvation as the Psalm says. Praise God that He has given you the gift of being disappointed with failing to honor Him. And realize that this is a good sign that you indeed still care about your spiritual life. And if you are unhappy with disobedience then you can not be too far from repentance (if not already there) and simply need to keep making the next simple step. Confession, mass, some daily prayer. One day and week at a time. And you may fall again. Of course, try not to, but resolve even now than when and if you do, you will get back up again. I am encouraged by your honesty and hatred for your weakness. I also like to think that those who suffer depression may in some way be richly rewarded for holding on to faith (if not in this life in the next) for what they had to carry was in some way more difficult than the rest of us. Just my opininon, but I think that you have the opportunity to please God very much by your perseverance.
I do not want to be completely optimistic, of course, there is still danger of falling or committing wgrave and willful sin, and this and a helthy fear of God should also help you to remember that time is a gift and we do not know how much we have. But I do believe that an awareness of this scary fact blended with awareness of God's mercy, grace, desire that you be saved (He does love you you know) and thanksgiving that He has kept you going to this point can help pull you through.
May faith, hope and love, enkindled by the flame of the Holy Spirit guide you; and may your guardian angel be strengthened to guide nd protect you and the blessed Mother be entrusted to make intercession for you as you enter more deeply into a love relationship with the Holy Trinity.
Brian
|
|
|
setapart
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Austin, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 269 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Born Catholic, Non-Denominational Charismatic, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 11:12 pm |
|
David W. Emery wrote: I've been around here because I'm not happy.
Listen: I battled for 30 years with a fault I couldn’t conquer. I kept going back to the Lord and telling him, “I can’t do it!” And each time he told me,“Try again. You are not the one who needs to ‘do it’ here. If you rely on me, you will see.” And eventually I did see: it’s all grace, Mark. It’s not your feeble efforts, it’s the power of God working in you because you give him permission.
Give God permission! That saying is from Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. You need to learn it: Give God permission by showing him that you are obedient. If you fail, keep trying, because that is obedience. Give God permission by doing his will. And when you can’t do his will, he will carry you until you gain strength. Give God permission by returning to him and allowing him to continue working in you. Be stubborn about it: you know that giving up won’t accomplish anything, so push off and take another run at it.
If you rely on yourself, you will fail every time. You know it. So why don’t you let Jesus carry your load? He’s a lot stronger than you. Rely on him, give him permission to carry that load — to carry you where you are not able to walk. We all have to do that, Mark, not just you. So give it a try.
David
Mark,
I agree with David because I have experienced this also.
God Bless,
Bill
____________________
But for you who fear my name, the Sun of Righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. And you will go free, leaping with joy like calves let out to pasture. Mal 4:2
|
|
|
Pani Rose
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Irondale, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 750 |
| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 01:50 am |
|
Candlemass - these prayers kept coming to mind for you today. Pray all or any part of them as you can - that is if you want to. I find they are very effectual especially for men. In the Byzantine Churches we have lamps that hang before our icons and at night - at sun set, the lamps are lit. (Well actually, now days, the lamps are lit early, but the big lights are not own until the procession with the Gospel.)
THE SEVEN PRAYERS AT THE LIGHTING OF THE LAMPS
1. O Lord, compassionate and merciful, long-suffering and plenteous in mercy, give ear to our prayer, and attend to the voice of our supplication. Work upon us a sign for good. Lead us in thy way, that we may walk in thy truth. Make glad our hearts, that we may fear thy holy name. For thou art great and doest wonders. Thou alone art God, and among all the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord, mighty in mercy, gracious in strength, to aid and to comfort and to save all those who put their trust in thy holy name. For unto thee are due all glory, honor and worship to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
2. O Lord, rebuke us not in thy displeasure, neither chasten us in thy wrath, but deal with us according to thy mercy, O Physician and Healer of our souls. Guide us unto the haven of thy will. Enlighten the eyes of our hearts to the knowledge of thy truth, and vouchsafe that the remainder of this day and our whole life may be peaceful and without sin, through the intercessions of the holy Theotokos and of all the saints. For thine is the might, and thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
3. O Lord our God, remember us sinners and thine unprofitable servants when we call upon thy holy name, and put us not to shame in our expectation of thy mercy; but grant us, O Lord, all our petitions, which are unto salvation, and vouchsafe that we may love and fear thee with all our hearts and do thy will in all things. For thou art a good God and lovest mankind, and unto thee we ascribe glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
4. O thou who, with never-silent hymns and never-ceasing songs of praise to thy glory, art hymned by the holy powers: Fill our mouths with thy praise, that we may magnify thy holy name. And grant unto us part and inheritance with all those who fear thee in truth and keep thy commandments, through the intercessions of the holy Theotokos and of all thy saints. For unto thee are due all glory, honor and worship to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen
5. O Lord, O Lord, who upholdest all things in the undefiled hollow of thy hand, who showest long-suffering upon us all and repentest thee at our wickedness: Remember thy compassions and thy mercy. Visit us with goodness, and grant that, through the remainder of t
he present day, by thy grace, we may avoid the diverse subtle snares of the evil one and preserve our lives unassailed, through the grace of thine all-holy Spirit. Through the mercy and love toward mankind of thine only-begotten Son, with whom thou art blessed, together with thine all-holy and good and life-giving Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
6. O God, great and wonderful, who with wisdom inscrutable and great riches of providence orderest all things and bestowest upon us earthly good things, who hast given us a pledge of the promised kingdom through the good things already bestowed upon us and hast made us to shun all evil during that part of the day which is past: Grant that we may also fulfill the remainder of this day without reproach before thy holy glory and hymn thee, the only good One, our God, who lovest mankind. For thou art our God and unto thee we ascribe glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
7. O great and most high God, who alone hast immortality and dwellest in light unapproachable, who has made all creation in wisdom, who hast divided the light from the darkness and hast appointed the sun to rule the day, the moon and stars also to rule the night, who has vouchsafed unto us sinners at this present hour also to come before thy presence with confession and to offer unto thee our evening praise: Do thou thyself, O Lord, who lovest mankind, direct our prayer as incense before thee, and accept it as a savor of sweet fragrance, and grant that we may pass the present evening and the coming night in peace. Endue us with the armor of light. Deliver us from the terror of the night and from everything that walketh in darkness, and grant that the sleep, which thou hast appointed for the repose of our weakness may be free from every imagination of the devil. Yea, O Master of all, Bestower of good things, may we, being moved to compunction upon our beds, call to remembrance thy name in the night, that, enlightened by meditation on thy commandments, we may rise up in joyfulness of soul to glorify thy goodness, offering up prayers and supplications unto thy tender love for our sins and for those of all thy people, whom do thou visit in mercy, through the intercessions of the holy Theotokos. For thou art a good God and lovest mankind, and unto thee we ascribe glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
Last edited on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 01:53 am by Pani Rose
|
|
|
kersca
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 148 |
| First Name: | Adam | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 02:00 am |
|
Mark,
I am a recovering addict/alcoholic and I walked away from the Church to live that life of debauchery. Using drugs daily, it all fell apart. There is this shame over not living for Christ and also this selfish desire to stay away from Him becuse it is a buzz kill. Lies, sexual immorality... it all started snowballing. Eventually, I returned to God on my hands and knees in total desparation. I had even thought of suiocide. Even ehen my thoughts weren't that dark, I just didn't give a crap about myself. You know what man, God was waiting for me to return to him. That slavery I felt when I was "living the life" was melted away simply by tearfully begging Him for mercy. NEven then, I was slowq in returning to him. Gave him more and more of my life as time went on. I still do it. It's a process. However, you have to humble youself to begin the process.
Check out the book "Sober Disciple". It's about a priest who got sober. He went to meetings in collar. If you have a problem with substances, check out A.A. I am sober almost nine years and firmly believe that God is at those tables helping people every day.
If you have other problems, seek help. Life is to short to spend it being a slave to drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, etc... They are cheap substitutions. We only feel right when we make ourselves slaves to God's will.
Peace Brother,
God Bless,
Adam
|
|
|
Steven Barrett
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Absurdistan, AKA , Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 1566 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 02:33 am |
|
Mark, first off, I've got you in my prayers. But I'm awfully concerned for you. Despair is a sin if one is not mentally ill, not under the influence of mind altering substances, a devilish curse, etc. It's our way of "playing God" and shutting him our of our lifes and going from there. It's Pride's way of speaking for the devil through our minds.
Some people simply have given up on mankind and people in general and are simply accepting the day when they'll have no compunctions about "checking out" but I don't see this as your problem in the least.
YOU ARE A FIGHTER. The mere fact that you're hanging in there and not giving in to the world's shallow "out" means that God IS working through you and you're too momentarily depressed to see it happening But it is and He hasn't or won't give up on you unless you decide to walk away from Him and again, He'll still be waiting for you like the pr odigal father.
The blithe atheist who's fully content with his little world of nothingness as a life-guiding philosphy is the true despairer because he refuses to see anything beyond his own hands; and thus he's simply handed the keys to his mind over to Satan.
But I have a strong disagreement with some evangelicals who claim depressions are a sign of the devil, despair and ipso facto sinful. They overlook the legitimacy of any and responsible neurological and psychological knowledge proving beyond a shadow a doubt that depression is something we get from our parents and ancestors. God on the other hand reassures us that in His everlasting mercy that He won't abandon us to our moments of (seeming) despair no matter how low we're probably feeling. He just won't.
Hope that helps and God Bless and keep you, brother.
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
|
|
|
Current time is 11:45 am | |
|
|
|
|
|
