 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1359 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 03:10 pm |
|
| This is a question to Dave, but comments from everyone would be welcome and helpful. I was reading Dave's website one day and somehow got into some links or references to another apologists website, CARM. It is admittedly a protestant/evangelical site. Out of curiosity, I began reading it over, and then went to the forum discussion area. At once I noticed the difference between the overall attitude between our civil and meaningful discussions, and their lack thereof. I read some threads where they had dueling scriptures and insulted each other, no big surprise. But I noticed that many side remarks are made about catholicism and most if not all are outright lies. It appears that some catholics are allowed to register, at least they look like catholic names, so I thought I would register and do my bit to refute the untruths. Part of the rules is that a moderator has to monitor a newcomer's posts, until they are sure I'm not a troublemaker. Okay. Also, no one can post an image except certain moderators or "super members." One of the first threads I read started with an image of the Blessed Virgin Mary in front of the Ark of the Covenant. All of the posters attacked it saying it was blasphemous, occultist, you name it. A couple of I guess catholic people tried to explain the relationship between Mary as the ark of the new covenant and the OT ark of the covenant. I wrote a post explaining it and why the symbolism isn't occultist. My post was never printed. It just disappeared! I'm wondering, Dave, do these people censor and control to the point of only allowing a thread to be dominated by the crazies? I don't envy your job. It must take a special person to deal with these kinds of people all the time. They don't want to hear the truth! It's not in their best interest (they don't think) to allow the truth to be heard. I had thought I could be a voice of reason, but that place seems to be a snakepit. Should I keep trying or is it your seasoned advice to stay away because I'd be wasing my time?
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 04:12 pm |
|
Marsha, you have my sympathies! It is because of that kind of stuff that I almost lost my faith. I saw so much meanness that I couldn't see Jesus anymore. I don't think these people realize what damage they are doing to the Body of Christ. If they think they are the keepers of the truth, then why behave like children? It's been thoughtful and KIND Catholics that have made me hopeful again.
If you want to keep trying to correct the inaccuracies over there, I'd suggest beginning with finding things you can agree with them about and making your presence known that way. Then you can gently lead them away from the errors a little at a time. If you're deemed dangerous up front, they'll never let your posts through.
God's blessings on your efforts!
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1359 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 04:25 pm |
|
| I agree, but after doing some more reading there, I don't think I want to get involved after all. There's some kind of feeding frenzy going on that is allowed and maybe encouraged. It's not just that I don't want to be fish food! I don't want to subject my soul to that kind of tearing down. I'll stay here where people build each other up and are kind.
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 04:37 pm |
|
Not a bad idea! Isn't it just SAD that places like that exist? It makes me think of the sheep and the goats analogy Jesus used. How we treat people matters!
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1359 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 05:46 pm |
|
| Exactly, Kim. We are to show love and charity to all, because in doing so we are showing the love of Christ to them. And a person who is hungry, or sick or in need, is in need of the love of Christ. I am baffled by how these evangelical Christians treat each other, much less how they treat Catholics. I know they are not representative of the majority of evangelicals, who may share their theology but not their hate speech. I shoulda known better! My bad for letting curiosity kill the cat. Meow!
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1657 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 11:49 pm |
|
Hi Marsha,
I'm wondering, Dave, do these people censor and control to the point of only allowing a thread to be dominated by the crazies?
CARM has considerable moderator bias (I was on that board for several months), because it is controlled by anti-Catholics, and this bias is absolutely inevitable with them. On the other hand, it does allow Catholics to at least express themselves better than many many similar venues. They can talk, but then they are mocked and misrepresented and the moderation policy allows this. If you look closely at CARM policy, you'll also see that part of it is to "evangelize" Catholics. They regard us as lost. That sets up the inevitable "superior-subordinate" mentality where ill will and insult and moderator hypocrisy becomes inevitable.
I became so fed up with Internet discussion boards (not just anti-Catholic ones, but ALL that I had seen, even Catholic ones) that I quit going to them altogether, and wrote about it in October 2003, condemning all the idiocy and nonsense that I had experienced and observed for the previous seven and a half years of my online experience.
Ironically, here I am as a moderator of one now! But this place is unique among all boards that I have seen. It's done right here and people act normally and not obnoxiously and rudely. Part of the reason is because we're not really about debate, but rather "non-confrontational" inquiry. Debates seem to bring out the worst in so many people (which is a considerable cross for me to bear because I love debates and dialogues so much and consider them excellent learning tools; they are wonderful when done right).
And, of course, anti-Catholics don't come here, by definition of the purpose of this board. If they are inquiring about the Catholic Church, they aren't anti-Catholics (and vice versa)! So they aren't allowed to ruin discussion and get on their soapboxes and misinform and insult people.
Consequently, we simply have discussions and support each other. We have a common goal and function as a support group. I'm proud to be a part of it. I confess that, personally, I like vigorous debate a lot more (it's my nature), but as an apologist, my motivation has always been to help people to better understand and have more confidence in their Catholic faith, and so I am honored to be able to further that end in some way on this board. There are ways that I can do that here that I am unable to do by posting one of my debates on the Internet. It's more "hands-on" and personal, and I like that part of it a lot.
I don't envy your job. It must take a special person to deal with these kinds of people all the time.
But I'm not usually dealing with them! In fact, I have just resolved again to ignore anti-Catholics. I've refuted their arguments so many times, as a matter of my "apologetic duty," that I'm not "required" to do any more. They drive me nuts! I can't even pout into words how low of an opinion I have about the thinking behind anti-Catholicism: how much I despise that (NOT the persons but the falsehoods). And I detest the fact that so many personal attacks occur and that they can't simply stick to the subject and respectfully disagree.
They don't want to hear the truth! It's not in their best interest (they don't think) to allow the truth to be heard.
For some that may be true, but as a generality, I would phrase it a little differently. There is some will involved here, but most anti-Catholics sincerely think they are seeking truth and have found it. They have concluded, based on inadequate, misinformed grounds, that Catholicism (much of it, anyway) is not the truth, and therefore, they want to suppress its being heard, as much as possible. I don't even deny them their good motivations. I say they are massively ignorant and will not accept correction or education from Catholics who know that they are.
We all conclude that certain things aren't true, and avoid them. The trick is to make that judgment on a proper basis.
I had thought I could be a voice of reason, but that place seems to be a snakepit. Should I keep trying or is it your seasoned advice to stay away because I'd be wasing my time?
I would advise you to stay away (given what you have expressed). Some Catholics can and do stay there to be a "light" but it takes the patience of Job, believe me. I was far from that! But of course, as far as my own opinion, I'd say folks should avoid any Internet discussion board, except for this one. For a while, blogs were of a considerably higher calibre and good discussion could be had, but I find that they are rapidly going the same way as the boards. People are far more inconsiderate and rude on the Internet. People express things they would rarely or never express in person, face to face. The substance and edification of Christian, theological interaction suffer as a result.
That's why, I think, that one can hardly find any women on most theological boards and blogs. Y'all quickly recognize that most of what takes place is unedifying, pride-filled garbage: a bunch of chest-puffing, juvenile, pseudo-macho tomfoolery, and make the wise decision to not waste your time. It takes us men years to arrive at the same conclusion.
Is that feminine intuition? Would that we men also had such a wonderful gift!
Last edited on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 12:03 am by Dave Armstrong
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 12:12 am |
|
For a while, blogs were of a considerably higher calibre and good discussion could be had, but I find that they are rapidly going the same way as the boards. People are simply far more inconsiderate and rude on the Internet. The substance and edification of interaction suffer as a result.
So true!
That's why, I think, that one can hardly find any women on most theological boards and blogs. Y'all quickly recognize that most of what takes place is unedifying, pride-filled garbage: a bunch of chest-puffing pseudo-macho tomfoolery, and make the wise decision to not waste your time. It takes us men years to arrive at the same conclusion. Is that feminine intuition? Would that we men also had such a wonderful gift!
Uh-huh...:? It amazes me how there can be such mind-numbing hair splitting over the exact same issues over and over again. It's insane! And the meanness! Oh my! Don't get me started!
[Dave: corrected typos in my words cited above. I need a new keyboard! . . .]Last edited on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 12:33 am by Dave Armstrong
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 451 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 12:26 am |
|
Dave Armstrong wrote:
Hi Marsha,
I became so fed up with Internet discussion boards (not just anti-Catholic ones, but ALL that I had seen, even Catholic ones) that I quit going to them altogether, and wrote about it in October 2003, condemning all the idiocy and nonsense that I had experienced and observed for the previous seven and a half years of my online experience.
I was in the same state of mind Dave. Even the Catholic Answers site became for me a hostile place. I did not feel at home there at all. It was filled with flamers, fixers and just plain obnoxious people. Everyone seemed to be more interested in spouting how much their better theology was from the others.
There are some good people there, but it's so big it's hard to carry on a meaningful conversation.
Most boards are like that which has made me skittish of forums. But this one is much different. Smaller, friendly and welcoming. I feel at home here with friends. You all are becoming a family to me. I finally feel like I'm not alone in my journey. The moderators are very helpful and knowledgeable.
It's not perfect as the last couple of days have shown, but it's a whole lot better than the ones I've seen.
Thanks for being true Christians who are really trying to love one another and for helping strugglers like me along the path to heaven.
Rich
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 12:35 am |
|
You all are becoming a family to me. I finally feel like I'm not alone in my journey.
I feel the same way. This is the best (Christian or otherwise) forum I've ever been on. You guys are awesome! 
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1657 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 12:41 am |
|
That's what we try to be about Rich! Thanks for your kind words. By God's grace, the moderators may be able to help a bit here and there in making it an edifying, appealing, educational place. But we're similar to coaches in sports: they're only as good as the players they got. And we have a group here that I would stack up against any group anywhere on the Internet.
To the extent that a moderator can be "proud" of that, I'm extremely proud of our members (the good kind o' proud).
I think the real thanks has to go to Marcus Grodi and CHNI as a whole for conceptualizing and setting up a forum that is a blessing and help to people, and educational within the bounds of charity and "normal" discourse. I think this is a model for the potential of what could be done a lot more widely on the Internet, with a little bit of planning and effort and joint cooperation.
And I'd like to tip my cap to Rick and David, who have done a great deal to help foster and create the atmosphere we have here today. I'm just a newcomer; having only been here since November.
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1359 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 03:00 am |
|
Dave Armstrong wrote: I think the real thanks has to go to Marcus Grodi and CHNI as a whole for conceptualizing and setting up a forum that is a blessing and help to people, and educational within the bounds of charity and "normal" discourse.
Amen! But you have added a new dimension with your books and articles where we can look up just about anything! And the new moderators are beefing up the resources, so thanks to all of you. 
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 04:00 am |
|
Credo Catholic wrote: Amen! But you have added a new dimension with your books and articles where we can look up just about anything! And the new moderators are beefing up the resources, so thanks to all of you.
Yes! Dave always comes through with the info we need, doesn't he? He's a vital part of CHNI. We need you, Dave! Keep up the good work!
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Current time is 08:40 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
