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Faith Admirer
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 29th, 2007 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Ryan | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Non-denominational Christian convert to Catholicism |
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 04:06 am |
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This is an excellent article from Christianity Today talking about how evangelicals are reading the Church Fathers because they feel cut off from 1,500 years of Church history. They even quote Cardinal Newman's famous line, "to be deep in history is to cease to be a protestant."
I can sense the gentle hand of God guiding these christians back to the Church that he established on the Apostles.
While we may not realize it because of the ecumenical world we live in, an article like this 50 years ago would have caused major upheaval at this magazine (it was founded by Southern Baptist Billy Graham).
Ryan
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/february/22.22.html?start=1
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 03:35 pm |
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Amazing that they have 'discovered' what the Catholic Church never lost! In his conversion testimony, Alex Jones tells of his study of patristics and how he discovered that the early Church was Catholic.
The first Christian millennium was one of at least nominal unity. The second was defined by disunity. The third may well be the time for God to join what man has divided.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 813 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 07:34 pm |
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| I have watched the Alex Jones program on EWTN twice. He has great story and I think I can identify with some of it. A couple of places are a bit of a heart tugger.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Free
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 216 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 09:34 pm |
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Thanks for posting the article from Christianity Today. When I finished reading it, I felt both hope and caution toward the trend of Protestants reading the Early Church Fathers. Thank goodness God Almighty is in charge, and if this is a plank in the road for our separated brothers and sisters to come home, glory to God. Since I was one of many former Protestants converted to the Catholic faith by discovering and reading the works of the earliest Christians, I'm all in favor of the Fathers being found and read.
The caution comes when I perceive, at least from this article, the standpoint from which the Fathers are being read, at least in some Evangelical circles. On the second page of the article was a list of the "dangers" of an enthusiasm Evangelicals might have for the Early Fathers, as delineated by presenters at the conference.
It's difficult to put into words, but I recognize the Protestant mindset at play here:1) the assumption that what they read needs to be understood only within the parameters already laid out in Evangelical thinking, and if it doesn't fit, it is suspect; 2) the attempt to "head off at the pass" anyone rashly making the leap that the Traditions they see in practice among the ancient Christians are now taking place in the 21st C. Catholic Church; 3) and the tendency to select out what "looks good" in the ancient way of doing things with the result of starting one's own new denomination. This last is a typical reflexive response of a person still thinking as a protestor -- a Protestant.
The article uses John Henry Cardinal Newman's quotation "to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant," yet balances it with a quotation by Evangelical authors who refute his statement, and who claim that the writings of the Early Church Fathers can be studied for the historical nuggets they contain without a person becoming Catholic in one's heart and mind. For the people who study the Fathers and don't become Catholic, the authors say "the objections to Rome remain weightier than what Catholicism offers." (Mark Noll, Carolyn Nystrom Is the Reformation Over?) The mindset here is one of being in charge, of being the authority in one's own life, and capable of judging whether or not "one's objections to Rome" are built on the Rock of Jesus Christ, or on sand. The authors seem stalwart in their thinking that the Protestant reader of the Fathers is fully in charge of his heart and mind, rather than God having the miraculous ability to change a heart and mind. And it may well be true that the bulwark erected against the Catholic Church is so firm in an individual, that he or she will remain deaf and blind to the call of Christ back to his one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church. Yet I remember the time not so long ago when I began reading church history simply to become more knowledgable, and look where I am now!
I hope and pray for the same slide into the fullness of the truth and the fullness of the faith for every one of the Protestants who decide to deepen their knowledge about the history of the Church!
I also found it interesting and disturbing that in a 9-page article in Christianity Today the name of Jesus is not mentioned once, and neither is his heartfelt prayer for unity.
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 623 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 03:09 pm |
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| I was raised in a congregational denomination. At Central Christian Church, in Bristol, Tennessee, they focused on the Old Testament and New Testament, which was appropriate of course, however, that was about it. I learned nothing about church history from them. Oh, they might mention some more modern day missionaries and church activities, but that was all. By the way, we were aware that the Roman Catholic denomination existed, of course, however, NOTHING negative was said about you all. It was just acknowledged that you all were out there, amongst our society, we occasionally saw Priests and Nuns but that was all. Nothing was said about you other than that you existed. Anyway, even so, it was not until my early twenties, when I became associated with the Episcopal Church, that I started to learn anything about the rest of of church history. Then, with the advent of the Internet, I started to learn much more about church history. One year, on St. Patrick's Day, I started to do some reading about St. Patrick and remembered that I had noted, in an Episcopalian devotional I read, and still read together with some other Protestant and Catholic devotionals, mention of various "Saints". I started to wonder about that and started to look them up. Suddenly, "BOOM", a whole new world of Christian experience opened up to me! I have followed the lectionary and the Saint's days for a couple of years now, reading with fascination about the various Saints and Blesseds, etc. Earlier this morning, for example, I was reading about "Our Lady of Lourdes" day and reading some additional things about St. Bernadette and Lourdes and related matters, including a homily of Pope John Paul II during his visit there. It has just been an awesome, awesome time of learning for me! I just wish that I could have learned about and developed an appreciation for these great servants of God much earlier in life. I'd like to see the Protestant denominations give much more attention to and learn to appreciate the wonderful service to our Lord of the various Saints and Blesseds, et al! They also bring about in me a humility - I sadly realize that I am not worthy so much as to shine their shoes, they are such outstanding Christian people! I have prayed that our society and future generations will learn about them and appreciate the many contributions which they made, while serving God, to our world! Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 03:10 pm by EMarshallBuckles
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 04:14 pm |
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EMarshallBuckles wrote: I sadly realize that I am not worthy so much as to shine their shoes, they are such outstanding Christian people!
I acknowledge that I am a sinner, so you can shine my shoes. I just wouldn't want you to feel deprived. 
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Dave Armstrong
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| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1659 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 08:00 pm |
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It's a "mixed bag" to some extent, but I feel that if evangelicals have any interest in the fathers at all, it can only be a good thing, because there will be converts as a result of it or at the very least a greater appreciation for Christian Tradition and Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
They will interpret it through their Protestant lens at first but the more one reads the fathers, that lens has to either be cleaned up or removed altogether. The facts will simply overwhelm that bias.
I have a web page devoted to the fathers and a new book that collects "Catholic" utterances from them.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 08:23 pm |
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When speaking with Protestants, I like to recommend Early Christian Writings. It is not a "Catholic" web site and so cannot be accused of a Catholic bias.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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BillK
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| Joined: | Sun Jan 6th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 24 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Revert to Catholicism (dabled in Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical, Messianic ... |
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 08:34 am |
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I encourage all of you who were brought to the fullness of the Catholic Church through the writings of the Church Fathers to read this article and comment (charitably of course!) on it. Perhaps it will encourage some of our brothers and sisters to seek out the richness of the Catholic Church. Please continue to pray for unity!
Bill
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EMarshallBuckles
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 623 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 08:16 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: I acknowledge that I am a sinner, so you can shine my shoes. I just wouldn't want you to feel deprived.
Oh, gosh, um, uh, "THANKS"!  
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