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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 754 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2007 02:29 pm |
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It's been 22 years (I'm now 51) that I've been attending church and acting like a Christian. (I hesitate to say 'became a Christian' because I was baptized as an infant. Anyway...) I'm sort of a math/science/logic sort of person and have always desired to understand Christianity's nuts and bolts. I guess I have an intellectual/apologetic approach to the faith.
God needs all kinds though, doesn't He? I recently met a Catholic gal who seems much more interested in the "mystical" side of Catholicism and I realized how inadequate my knowledge and, frankly, even interest are in that side of things. When I read the writings of the mystics, I just don't get it. But when I read apologetics, I love it!
Is this normal? I do think it would be good for me to develop my more spiritual side, but it's much harder for me. I'd rather read a chemistry book than a philosophy book. In fact, I am unable to comprehend most philosophy books I've picked up and glanced through. It's the same with legal documents. They're so incomprehensible to me, it makes me laugh hysterically! But the world needs lawyers, too.
Who would be the most accessible mystics to read first?
Here's an example of writing that I can't seem to sink my teeth into. It's copied from this month's Magnificat on pp 156-157 and was written by St. Maximus the Confessor. "Just as straight lines which proceed from the center are seen as entirely undivided in that position, so the one who has been made worthy to be in God will recognize in himself with a certain simple and undivided knowledge all the preexisting principles of things. Formed by its objects, the one concept gives rise to many concepts when each of the objects takes formal shape. But when it has gone beyond a multitude of sense experiences and thoughts which have formed it, it becomes completely without form........" huh????
Conversely, here is an excerpt from the same edition on p 189 and which was written by a MYSTIC, St. Frances de Sales, but which I can wrap my mind around: (I love this!) "Simplify your judgment, do not reflect on yourself so much nor argue inwardly, but go on your way simply and with confidence. As far as you are concerned there is nothing in this world except God and you; all the rest should not touch you except insofar as God may command and as he commands. I beseech you not to look about you so much but to keep your gaze fixed on the relationship between God and you. ... Moreover, do not analyze what other people are doing or speculate what will become of them, but look upon them simply, generously, with kindness and affection. ... "
We are all one body, but we are different parts of the body, right? Can I have peace with being an objective, "scientific" sort of Catholic? Or am I missing a great deal???
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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mg57
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tolland County, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 176 |
| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2007 11:39 pm |
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Jill -
I love St. Francis DeSales because he has the gift to present mystical depth to the guy or gal on the street, so to speak. If you've found a connection with him, keep going.
An elderly fellow I know, a convert with a PhD from Cornell ( Math & science I believe) says he's a "scavanger" when it comes to the saints. He'll take a bit here or there from whomever he connects with at the time. Over the years this has built up in him quite a repository !
One excellent book on the spiritual life ( everything you mentioned), - written / presented in a very logical fashion is "Hammer & Fire" by Fr. Raphael Simon O.C.S.O.
Fr. Simon's backround is in medicine, - he's an M.D., - Psychiatrist, who joined the Trappist Order. The book is in it's newest printing by Ignatius Press, - probably available on Amazon as well.
Another excellent one is "Spiritual Passages" by Fr. Benedict Groeschel C.F.R. It presents the classical Catholic spiritual life connecting it to those of us in the contemporary world without reducing or dumbing-down anything.
God bless.
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2033 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 12:17 am |
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Jill, I’ve been studying the spiritual life for upwards of 40 years now, and I still find that certain texts are unreadable. One of the most opaque for me is the anonymous 5th century author known as Pseudo-Dionysius. St. Maximus is not quite as bad as he, although he has his moments, as your example shows.
But what is needful? Does one need to get into the esoteric at all? No. In fact, I seldom use the word “mystical,” because most people are just mystified by it. I talk about a person’s relationship with God, about the influences of sin and virtue, about the inner workings of the soul, about human foibles and failures. You’ve read some of it on the forum. I should think this is really what most people are interested in, rather than the other. Yet it is all very much the same topic, just approached from two different directions: the practical and the theoretical.
You mention mathematics. Most people just want a way to juggle some figures quickly and get a usable answer. They couldn’t care less about the different theories of numbers or how to use a base-8 system. Same thing. They are practical people and are pleased to leave the abstruse niceties of numbers to the denizens of ivory towers.
Your take on the mystical body needing all the different parts and organs is apropos. Not everyone is called to be a mystic, just as being a charismatic Christian does not appeal to everyone. Not everyone needs to know the theory behind his pious practices, either. But some are and do, and they are given the talent and disposition to pursue it for the edification of the Church.
In the spiritual life, there are really just two parts that the ordinary Christian needs to be concerned with: prayer and virtue. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to do either; in fact, I’ve known retarded persons who did quite well with them. What it takes is will, far more than intellect.
You like St. Francis de Sales. Fine, study him if you like. His spiritual writings fall into three parts: the short and sweet Introduction to the Devout Life, the encyclopedic Treatise on the Love of God, and the often interesting and enlightening Letters, where you see his masterful spiritual direction at work. Since he lived during the 16th century and dealt frequently with Calvinists, you may also find his apologetic writings of interest. Some of his observations are eye openers even today.
If you find St. Francis de Sales to your liking, I would also recommend St. Teresa of Avila. Talk about a live wire! Her autobiography (the Life) is fascinating, sometimes humorous, always very practical in its orientation. Another easy to follow work is the Way of Perfection, which she wrote as a manual of prayer and practice for the novices in her convent.
But you may also find affinities to modern authors, such as Fr. Thomas Dubay. He has written a number of very popular books on prayer, the spiritual life in general, and certain specific aspects of spirituality, such as the place of poverty or beauty in human life. His best known book is Fire Within, an introduction to the doctrine of St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila. But my personal favorite is Authenticity. It speaks of being true to the truth and exposes all the detours and blind alleys people use to avoid confronting the real issue of truth. Since the question of truth is where my own journey of faith began, this book holds a special place in my heart.
Another very simple book that I found beguiling is The Commonsense Book of Catholic Prayer and Meditation, written by a German spinster who began life as an atheist, had to flee Hitler because of her Jewish ancestry, found haven in England during and after World War II, became a schoolteacher, a Christian, and finally a Catholic. Her name is Hilda Graef.
I think you will be able to find peace as a practical person. Why don’t you check out these leads (and any others that members may mention, such as Fr. Groeschel’s book that mg57 mentions — it’s great, too) and let us know what you think?
David
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mg57
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tolland County, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 176 |
| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 10:31 am |
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Jill -
Just wanted to add about St. Francis DeSales, unless you've already discovered them, his letters read like they were written yesterday, very simply but with much depth. Sophia institute Press has a nice one volume collection they put out.
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JillD
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 754 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 11:24 am |
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I very much appreciate the thought and effort that went into your replies and will definitely look into your suggestions for further reading.
It's OK to be a Catholic nerd!    Though I do look forward to building up my spiritual life, especially my prayer life.
Thank you!!!
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 05:38 pm |
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Dear Jill,
There is a quote from some early church father, whose name fails me at this time, which I love to refer to. "Love God and do as you please." Now how simple is that? And yet how complex is that! For if we would "Love God" as He commands us to do, then all that would proceed forth from our lives thereafter would glorify Him. Thus, "doing as we please" would be living the santified, separated, holy life of which He desires and requires.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2033 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 11:32 pm |
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The saying comes from St. Augustine. It is extracted from his seventh tractate (lecture) on 1 John, treating of chapter 4, verse 9: “In this was manifested the love of God in us.”
Having said, “You see that it is not what a man does that is the thing to be considered, but with what mind and will he does it,” he proceeds to expound by examples how this is so. Then he says:
See what we are insisting upon; that the deeds of men are only discerned by the root of charity. For many things may be done that have a good appearance, and yet do not proceed from the root of charity. For thorns also have flowers. Some actions truly seem rough, seem savage; however, they are done for discipline at the bidding of charity. Once for all, then, a short precept is given you: Love, and do what you will. If you hold your peace, through love hold your peace; if you cry out, through love cry out; if you correct, through love correct; if you spare, through love do you spare. Let the root of love be within; of this root can spring nothing but what is good.
David
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