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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
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| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2007 11:10 am |
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| Where does the Church get the idea(s) of what sin is and what it is not in cases or situations which are not covered by the commandments (10 old ones and/or 2 new ones)? It is obvious that what Peter and the others would forgive or would not forgive would be carried out also, in heaven. However, where does the authority come from to define what is sin beyond the commandments, as specified in Scripture? Last edited on Sat Mar 31st, 2007 11:11 am by BodRod
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2007 12:00 pm |
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BodRod wrote: Where does the Church get the idea(s) of what sin is and what it is not in cases or situations which are not covered by the commandments (10 old ones and/or 2 new ones)? It is obvious that what Peter and the others would forgive or would not forgive would be carried out also, in heaven. However, where does the authority come from to define what is sin beyond the commandments, as specified in Scripture?
The Church does not define sin. That which is a grave sin for me might be a venial sin for you, and no sin at all for someone else.
The Church defines evil. That is its power under the God-given authority to bind and to loose.
Sin is subjective. In order for a mortal sin to be committed, it must be a grave evil done with full knowledge and full consent of will.
Evil is objective. Certain matters which are contrary to God's plan are gravely evil. Other matters are less seriously evil.
In essence, it is evil if it violates the Law of Love: You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart, soul, and mind, and your neighbor as yourself. Sin is harmful, and there is no sin that does not harm oneself, another, or one's relationship with God. So every sin violates the Law of Love, including sins against the first ten commandments.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 812 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2007 12:27 pm |
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cajunrick wrote: ..... including sins against the first ten commandments.
Whoa!!! We do not worship on the Jewish Sabbath, which, as I understand it, was part of the Ten. When Christ said, "It is finished." did He not cancel the requirements of the old 10. Afterall, He had given them 2 new comprehensive commandments?
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5348 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2007 12:42 pm |
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BodRod wrote: cajunrick wrote: ..... including sins against the first ten commandments.
Whoa!!! We do not worship on the Jewish Sabbath, which, as I understand it, was part of the Ten. When Christ said, "It is finished." did He not cancel the requirements of the old 10. Afterall, He had given them 2 new comprehensive commandments?
The Church considers the Lord's Day the replacement of the Sabbath, just as Baptism replaced Circumcision, when Jesus chose that day to rise from the dead. The old law is not replaced but fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The "requirements" of the Ten Commandments are reinterpreted in Jesus, not abolished. We are still required to honor our parents, not to kill, not to commit adultery, to honor God above all else, etc.
The command to love God and love our neighbors is not a new commandment either. The command to love God is from Deut 6:5, and the command to love our neighbor is from Lev 19:18. They are not "two new, comprehensive commandments". In Jesus they become a single commandment joined for the first time by Jesus, who taught us that loving our neighbor is part of loving God, and loving God is part of loving our neighbor. This was his radical departure from Jewish law, the combining of the two into a single Law of Love.
As Jesus says in Matt 22.40, "The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2007 01:10 pm |
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Well, now we are back to my original question, "However, where does the authority come from to define what is sin beyond the commandments, as specified in Scripture?"
Where does it say that the Church can change the worship day or define what sin is beyond the obvious as defined in Scripture?
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2007 01:29 pm |
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BodRod wrote: Where does it say that the Church can change the worship day or define what sin is beyond the obvious as defined in Scripture?
It is in the God-given power to bind and to loose. Properly understood, this power granted by Jesus to the Church literally gives the Church the power to commit God, who has freely granted this authority.
When a king gave his ministers the power to bind and to loose, it meant they could make commitments, sign treaties, etc., in the king's name. An emissary sent to another kingdom to make a treaty had the literal authority to sign a document in the name of the king which would then be honored and could not be repudiated by the king. In a similar manner, that emissary had the power to declare war.
This was in contrast to the "keeper of the keys", the Prime Minister. In the absence of the king, the Prime Minister literally had the keys to the gate, and the power to open the gate to invaders. He wore the keys around his neck as the sign of his authority to rule the kingdom in the king's name.
The successor of Peter has the authority of the keys, while the successors of the ministers, the cardinals and bishops, have the power to bind and to loose.
These powers were fully understood in the days of kingdoms and walled cities; they are easily misunderstood today, with instant communications and the total uselessness of city walls and gates. An ambassador does not need the authority to bind and to loose when he can pick up the phone and call the king, and city walls are meaningless when they can be demolished by an aerial bombardment.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
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| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2007 02:26 pm |
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| OK. I can follow that. Thanks.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2007 04:15 pm |
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BodRod wrote: OK. I can follow that. Thanks.
There is one other thing regarding the change from the Sabbath to the Lord's Day.
Jewish Christians attended worship at the Synagogue on the Sabbath, and the Lord's Day meal on the first day of the week. It continued that way until the Jews expelled the Christians, and then they worshipped only on the Lord's Day.
Gentile Christians, as determined at the Council of Jerusalem, were not bound by Jewish law, so their meeting day was the Lord's Day.
Gradually, as Christians separated from Judaism, the old laws became less significant. The Christians saw their expulsion as a sign from God along with other signs, such as Peter's dreams in which he ate the flesh of "unclean" animals.
So the Christian faith is more mature, in that we don't need 600+ rules telling us what not to do. With a properly formed conscience and the motivation of love of God and neighbor, we can make those decisions ourselves with the guidance of the Church.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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