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left coast mystic
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| First Name: | Marcee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nondenominational charismatic, Presbyterian, long-time lover of the RCC |
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 01:41 am |
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This question is probably one of many that I have that would be answered in RCIA, but I'm not yet at liberty to sign up for RCIA, so I'm asking you all. There seem to be MANY prayers to learn! The rosary, the Divine Mercy Chaplet, and many others that I don't remember the names of but that people talk about all the time with familiarity. How do you find out about all of them? What the words are, what circumstances each one is used in, etc.
I listen to Ave Maria radio and they have a lovely CD of the rosary and the Divine Mercy chaplet that they play - a woman with what I think is an Irish accent, and some other women in the background. I wonder where I might find some of these prayers in Spanish. We're preparing to move to Mexico in a year or so and it would be a great way to get more comfortable with the language!
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Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 02:56 am |
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Ah, Marcee! There is a wealth here, and you are just uncovering the first few coins on the surface.
First, the basic prayers — the Our Father (Lord’s Prayer), the Hail Mary, the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed and a number of others — can be found in the Compendium of the Catechism, in the Manual of Indulgences, in many popular prayerbooks, and on many websites. Also in this group, which we may call “required,” in the sense that all Catholics should know and use them, is the liturgical prayer we call the Mass. This is the highest form of prayer: the Lord’s community offering him the Lamb of God, who takes away their sins and cleanses their hearts.
Second, more elaborate prayers, such as the Rosary, Divine Mercy Chaplet, the popular litanies and devotions — these are optional in the sense that they are strongly recommended but not absolutely required. You can be a Catholic without praying the Rosary, but you can hardly be a good one without praying the Our Father. But of course, the Rosary includes the Our Father numerous times within the web of decades and meditation on the mysteries of our salvation.
Prayers such as those above are called vocal prayers, because we speak them, word by word. Some of the most penetrating and beautiful vocal prayers are the Psalms. You can just open your bible and pray with King David and the other psalmists. Note that with vocal prayers we have four basic categories: adoration, thanksgiving, contrition and petition. These are all represented in the book of Psalms, along with reminders of the history of God’s people and instruction in life.
And of course there is nothing preventing you from speaking to God from your heart. Extemporaneous prayer is yet another expression of vocal prayer, if you are so inclined.
Thirdly we have other types of prayer, such as meditation, or mental prayer. You take a topic — usually from a book such as the bible or other spiritual reading — and ponder it in all its aspects… the mysteries it reveals, how the text applies to you, what you can do about it, etc. Place yourself in the scenes depicted in scripture and imagine what you see, what you hear, become part of the event. Let God’s awesome presence in the scene draw you into his embrace.
Now you mention some of the things you have discovered on Ave Maria radio, much of which repeats EWTN programming. The woman with the Irish accent is probably Dana, a longtime and well beloved Catholic singer. She was also, for a time, a member of the European Parliament, one of the few Catholic voices in that body.
So you’re moving to Mexico soon! EWTN has a full-time Spanish language broadcast that you can get off their website. The Spanish they use is eclectic; I hear accents from all over Latin America there. (Requires Windows Media Player, which is bundled with Windows. On the Macintosh, which I use, one can download the free Flip4Mac converter from a site such as VersionTracker or MacUpdate to play EWTN either in a web browser window or with Apple’s QuickTime Player, which comes with Mac OS X.)
Yes, learning the prayers in Spanish will definitely help you adjust, but language permeates all of life. I live on the Mexican border myself and use both languages constantly, everywhere I go and in everything I do. Those who know only one language are limited in their associations and their scope of activities. And of course, this is multiplied many times over when one actually moves into Mexico.
David
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left coast mystic
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 06:02 pm |
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I wonder if anyone out there who has a protestant, especially charismatic, background but is now solidly Catholic can comment on how they use different methods of prayer. As a charismatic protestant, and one who has had a fairly strong life of intercession, I have relied on prayer directly to the Father or to Jesus, and used my prayer language when I am otherwise unable to articulate the cries of my heart. I have experience in centering prayer and in lectio divina, but all these are direct, immediate (not previously created) prayers - at least in my experience.
I am wondering about the experience of others in incorporating "set" prayers into their prayer life. For instance, I have some friends for whom I have been praying, asking God to guide them and to bring much-needed clarity into their lives. I also pray for them in my prayer language, since I don't know God's intentions for them but want to pray His intentions into being. I guess my question is, how do "set" prayers fit into a circumstance like this, or is their purpose more in praying for the whole church or the whole world, rather than for specific situations?
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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left coast mystic
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 06:04 pm |
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| Also, David, do you know if there is a CD of Dana doing the Divine Chaplet of Mercy? And do you know where I might look to find a CD in Spanish of this and other prayers? Thanks for your help.
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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Annie
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 06:22 pm |
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Vocal prayer is often said for an "intention," which is a purpose. An example is the way Catholics will pray for the intentions of the Holy Father for the month. Often the rosary is prayed this way.
For somebody who wants to be a faithful Catholic I would recommend getting a small prayer book from a bookstore and using the prayers in there. There is a small one called "My Prayer Book" by Regina Press which is excellent. The yearly paper St. Joseph missal has some prayers in it too which are useful as well as the forms for confession.
Use of a "prayer language" in the Catholic context is very controversial because of the Protestant source of the charismatic movement and I will not comment on it. I would recommend the idea of doing as most of the Catholics do and use vocal prayer, lectio divina, and your own prayers at times which are generally considered appropriate.
And then there is the issue of just sitting in silence before the Blessed Sacrament, which is the best prayer of all.
And don't worry about not learning all this stuff fast enough. It comes over time. It takes born Catholics years to learn it too and they have more help than we do sometimes.
I started with the rosary and got a book called "My Treasury of Chaplets" by Patricia Quintiliani because I like praying chaplets. I also pray the chaplet of St. Michael every day for the intention of protecting priests. I pray the chaplet of Our Lady Star of the Sea frequently too.
The various aspirations help too such as the ones associated with scapulars. "Immaculate heart of Mary, pray for us now and at the hour of our death."
Last edited on Thu May 29th, 2008 06:25 pm by Annie
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Annie
Ora et labora
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left coast mystic
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 06:33 pm |
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Annie wrote: Use of a "prayer language" in the Catholic context is very controversial because of the Protestant source of the charismatic movement and I will not comment on it. I would recommend the idea of doing as most of the Catholics do and use vocal prayer, lectio divina, and your own prayers at times which are generally considered appropriate.
This commment surprises me. I was quite strongly involved in the charismatic movement on a national level, and all the books describing its beginning pointed to Catholic prayer groups in Ann Arbor and (I believe) at Notre Dame. Also, the large charismatic gatherings that were held in huge stadiums were always 2/3 - 3/4 Catholic, with the rest of us basically tagging along.
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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Annie
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 06:54 pm |
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The Catholic charismatic movement started at Duquesne when some Pentecostals got into a group with some Catholics. It has Protestant roots and is very controversial. Catholics have traditionally been more cerebral in their prayer life, hence the Liturgy of the Hours, which is another thing you will have to learn about, not to do, but just to know about.
The controversy lies in the source of the mvoement, the emotionalism, and the relatedness of Pentecostalism to the Gnostic heresy.
Last edited on Thu May 29th, 2008 06:55 pm by Annie
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Annie
Ora et labora
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 08:59 pm |
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The Catholic charismatic movement has been expressly sanctioned by the Church in many ways. I've written about this on my site and have also defended it. It is indeed "controversial," but I think oftentimes it is because people don't distinguish properly between abuses and legitimate expressions (and there are a lot of emotions about it, too -- somewhat ironically). The Church is very concerned about abuses, but has been careful not to condemn the thing itself in toto:
Catholic Debate on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal
Recent Popes' and Bishops' Statements Concerning the Catholic Charismatic Renewal
Different Kinds of Tongues: A Biblical and Linguistic Defense
Did the Spiritual Gifts Cease, Based on 1 Corinthians 13:8-11 ("Perfect")?
I also wrote about abuses in Protestant charismatic circles when I moved in them (way back in 1982):
Biblical Refutation of "Hyperfaith" / "Name-it-Claim it" Teaching: Is it Always God's Will to Heal in Every Instance?
So I've had the same approach for years: strongly criticizing silly and foolish excesses and abuses but never throwing the baby out with the bath water.
The present pope, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, was very much of this attitude (I imagine he still is):
What is hopeful at the level of the universal Church - and what is happening right in the heart of the crisis of the Church in the Western world - is the rise of new movements which nobody had planned and which nobody has called into being, but which have sprung spontaneously from the inner vitality of the faith itself. What is manifested in them - albeit subdued - is something like a pentecostal season in the Church. I am thinking, say, of the charismatic movement, of the Cursillos, . . . Certainly all these movements also give rise to some problems. They also entail greater or lesser dangers. But that happens with all living beings. I am now, to an increasing degree, meeting groups of young people in whom there is a wholehearted adhesion to the whole faith of the Church, young people who want to live this faith fully and who bear in themselves a great missionary elan. The intense life of prayer present in these movements does not imply a flight into interiority or a withdrawal into the private sphere, but simply a full and undivided catholicity. The joy of the faith that one senses here has something contagious about it. Here new vocations to the priesthood and to the religious orders are now growing spontaneously.
What is striking is that all this fervor was not elaborated by any office of pastoral planning, but somehow it sprang forth by itself. As a consequence of this fact, the planning offices - just when they want to be very progressive - don't know just what to do with them. They don't fit into their plan. Thus while tensions rise in connection with their incorporation into the present form of the institutions, there is absolutely no tension with the hierarchical Church as such.
What is emerging here is a new generation of the Church which I am watching with a great hope. I find it marvelous that the Spirit is once more stronger than our programs and brings himself into play in an altogether different way than we had imagined. In this sense the renewal, in a subdued but effective way, is afoot . . .
Cardinal Ratzinger is asked by interviewer Vittorio Messori:
Nowadays, I notice, there is underway a rediscovery of the Holy Spirit, who has perhaps been rather forgotten in Western theology. This rediscovery has not been merely theoretical but has involved growing numbers of people in the so-called "Charismatic Movement" or "Renewal".
That is so. The period following the Council scarcely seemed to live up to the hopes of John XXIII, who looked for a "new Pentecost". But his prayer did not go unheard. In the heart of a world dessicated by rationalistic scepticism a new experience of the Holy Spirit has come about, amounting to a worldwide renewal movement. What the New Testament describes, with reference to the charisms, as visible signs of the coming of the Spirit is no longer merely ancient, past history: this history is becoming a burning reality today . . .
There is in the "Renewal" a new and concrete awareness of the powers of evil, in addition, of course, to the calm certainty of the power of Christ who subjugates them all.
It is essential, above all, to maintain a balance, to beware of an exclusive emphasis on the Spirit, who, as Jesus humself reminds us, "does not speak of himself" but lives and works at the heart of the life of the Trinity. [A wrong overemphasis] could lead to setting against the hierarchically structured Church (which is based on Christ) a "charismatic" Church based only on the "freedom of the Spirit", a Church that regards herself as continually a new "happening".
Maintaining balance also means keeping the proper relationship between institution and charism, between the Church's common faith and personal experience. Without personal experience doctrinal belief remains empty; pure experience is blind unless it is linked to the faith of the Church. What counts, ultimately, is not the "we" of the group, but the great "we" of the universal Church. She alone can provide the proper context in which we can "not extinguish the Spirit and keep to what is good," as the apostle exhorts us.
We must beware of a too-easy ecumenism which can lead Catholic charismatic groups to lose their identity and, in the name of the "Spirit" (seen as the antithesis of the institution), uncritically associate with forms of Pentecostalism of non-Catholic origin. [Catholic renewal groups must therefore] think with the Church - sentire cum ecclesia - more than ever. They must always act in unity with the bishop, not least so that they will avoid the consequences that always arise when Holy Scripture is taken out of its context in the fellowship of the Church, which results in fundamentalism and the marks of the esoteric group and the sect.
Messori interjects:
Having given this warning about the risks involved, does the Cardinal also see positive signs in the emergence of the Charismatic Renewal Movement into the limelight of the Church's life?
Certainly. It is evidence of hope, a positive sign of the times, a gift of God to our age. It is a rediscovery of the joy and wealth of prayer over against theories and practices which had become increasingly ossified and shriveled as a result of secularized rationalism. I myself have observed the effectiveness of the Movement: in Munich I saw a number of good vocations to the priesthood come from it. As I have already said, like every other reality entrusted to human beings, it too is exposed to misunderstandings, misinterpretations and exaggeration. But it would be dangerous to see only the risks and not also the gift offered by God. The necessary caution does not alter my fundamentally positive judgment.
(The Ratzinger Report, San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1985, pp. 43-44, 151-153)
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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left coast mystic
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 09:11 pm |
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Dave -
THANK YOU - you have greatly relieved my heart!
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 09:19 pm |
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Glad to be of service (offering chivalrous bow, hat in hand)! 
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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left coast mystic
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 10:52 pm |
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Just FYI to anyone following this thread - I have considered myself a charismatic since I became a Christian as an adult 40 years ago, and I have never been in a church community that condones the congregation speaking in tongues during the service, especially all at the same time. That directly goes against Paul's teaching in 1 Co. 14, especially vss. 28-33. Chapters 12 & 14 in 1 Corinthians are pretty clear in terms of the role of speaking in tongues in particular, which is nowhere near significant in the way that pentecostals believe.
There is actually a significant difference between pentecostalism and its understanding of the gifts, especially speaking in tongues, and the charismatic movement within mainline denominations and the Catholic church. There are many well-grounded believers, people who are theologically well-versed, people who teach theology, pastors of churches, priests and bishops, as well as laity who accept(usually as a result of their own personal experience) the existence of "charismatic gifts" as something God is still disbursing to His people, not something that died when the last apostle died.
The charismatic movement (non-pentecostal version) has certainly "grown up" over the past 40 years, and when I read the debate that you gave a link to, Dave, Mike Breslin's description of the excesses and the ostracism that he experienced grieved me. The question of authority is key, and in my experience there has always been a clear teaching that any presumed charismatic phenomena were to be judged by the pastor and the elders, and outbursts from the congregation were never tolerated. This is in the context of Presbyterian charismatic services and gatherings. The same approach is used in the Vineyard. I cannot speak for other denominations, but the writings that I have read by Lutheran, Episcopal, and Methodist charismatic pastors seems to reflect a similar approach.
In large ecumenical "congresses" that I have attended (where Catholics, Presbyterians, Lutherans, etc. all came together), everything was done "decently and in order", again with outbursts not tolerated, but if someone felt that they had an exhortation or word of encouragement, they were to take that to people of wisdom who were appointed by the leaders to listen to these things, and only if they gave approval would that word be shared with the whole congregation (and not necessarily by the person who brought it forward).
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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Intercessor
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Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 01:05 am |
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left coast mystic wrote:
I wonder if anyone out there who has a protestant, especially charismatic, background but is now solidly Catholic can comment on how they use different methods of prayer. . . .
I am wondering about the experience of others in incorporating "set" prayers into their prayer life. For instance, I have some friends for whom I have been praying, asking God to guide them and to bring much-needed clarity into their lives. I also pray for them in my prayer language, since I don't know God's intentions for them but want to pray His intentions into being. I guess my question is, how do "set" prayers fit into a circumstance like this, or is their purpose more in praying for the whole church or the whole world, rather than for specific situations?
Hi, Marcee! Welcome to the forum.
Basically, almost any Catholic prayer can be adapted for many purposes. One just tells the Lord what the intention is. For instance, if a friend informs me that her daughter's marriage is in jeopardy, I can say, "Lord, I offer this for Jenny's marriage," and then pray two Hail Marys or an Our Father or a Rosary or a Divine Mercy chaplet. Most folks have a running list of intentions that they keep and then add, for a given day, special needs that arise. When they do a Rosary or fifteen minutes of mental prayer or half an hour of adoration in front of the Blessed Sacrament, they just say, "Lord, please honor my intentions."
One could keep a little prayer list and glance over it, or remind the Lord that she is referring to those needs on her prayer list at home. Often, I offer prayers and say, "Lord, I offer these prayers for all those persons who have requested prayer from me and for all those persons for whom I am obligated to pray or for any persons now in need of prayer or for those who will die today that they may have a good death. There's all sorts of flexibility. The devout Catholic life is certainly a life of much prayer.
Keep in mind that the Mass is the most important and most powerful prayer. As I drive to the chapel each morning for daily Mass, I begin telling the Lord what my Mass intentions are. Then in the actual Mass, all I have to do is ask the Lord to honor all those intentions I stated to him earlier in the car (there's not time at that spot in the Mass to get in all the intentions I would wish to include.)
Are set prayers useful at all when praying for individual situations, or are they basically general prayers for the world?
I think I answered this above, but the short answer is they serve either purpose. I like using them to request an increase in virtue such as faith, hope, and charity. It's very important to pray for such an increase. Also, you might be interested in knowing that some folks designate a certain portion of the Rosary for an individual and his intentions (such as the Holy Father).
I can't close without mentioning the importance of spending time in front of the exposed Blessed Sacrament. An hour each day (if you can manage it) is one of the most effective helps toward holiness and a deepening prayer life as a Catholic. Don't forget to include the Church Triumphant, in your efforts as a prayer warrior. I have eight saints, plus the Blessed Mother, that I involve in my prayers every day. There is profound help and comfort in knowing that those saints and the Blessed Mother are around the throne of God, interceding directly for my intentions.
Finally, we must remember the importance of fasting in strengthening our prayers.
God be with you, Marcee.
BeckyLast edited on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 01:28 am by Intercessor
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"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 01:58 am |
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Marcee, I am an orthodox Catholic who is charismatic in the sense that I have a prayer languageand a gift of discernment. It was while I was a Protestant involved in a mainline church that had a strange man for a pastor, and it was later learned that he was dabbling in the occult. I asked God for greater discernment, and he gave it to me. Later I used this gift in ministry in the non-denominational church I joined, helping people (many not baptized) walk out of distorted thinking, addictions, and demonic influences. Every Christian is supposed to grow in the gift of discernment (see Hebrews 5:14), and yet, with all gifts of the Spirit, some have a greater measure in one area or another, and that happens to be my area.
Are you Catholic yet? In my first full year as a Catholic, I'm finding so many interior changes taking place by the power of the Holy Spirit, and without my effort at all. One area is in intercessory prayer. Rarely must I pray in tongues because I am at a loss as to what to pray for or how to pray for a person. In phrases or in pictures, I learn what it is I am to pray for. And I also know better when it's been prayed "through." I attribute this greater clarity to the sacraments: confirmation, reconciliation, and the Eucharist. I have greater clarity in other areas of my life as well.
Praise God from whom all blessings flow! And praise him for wanting to flow them to us through his Church in the physical/spiritual sacracments!
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left coast mystic
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 08:06 pm |
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Jane -
Thanks for your post - I would love to hear more about how intercession has changed for you since you became a Catholic. I have not yet crossed the Tiber; I believe that God wants me to wait awhile until my beloved husband is more comfortable with me taking that action. I trust that God will make it clear to both of us when that time has arrived.
Meanwhile, there's much for me to learn, and I am especially wanting to lay hold of the richness of prayer in the Church. I must admit that it's very foreign to me, but I am trying to pray the rosary regularly, and the Divine Chaplet of Mercy. So many people whom I admire have said that praying the rosary is significant and deep, in ways that I don't currently understand. For me at this point it's more a matter of trusting that these prayers are doing something to soften up my hard ground and water what is already there.
I love your comment that since you came into the Church these things are becoming much clearer. I very much look forward to that time...
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 10:07 pm |
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Remember, Marcee, that the Rosary is primarily devoted to meditation on the life of Jesus. Any Christian can resonate with that. Many will have to understand the place of Mary in it, though.
The many Hail Marys were supposed to be a sort of "background music," so to speak: almost a rhythmic thing to keep the mind concentrated (that's what I've read). That's what the purpose of so much repetition is. It keeps the meditation moving forward, and helps avoid distraction, but the real focus is on Jesus and His life (because one is doing two things at one time, and one is secondary to the other).
You might also want to try the Rosaries on EWTN, because then you have some images that you can also concentrate on. That's usually how my family prays the Rosary.
A Protestant would also have to understand how Mary intercedes for us. I have lots of materials about the communion of saints, defending that from the Bible and reason, if it is a difficulty for you or others (I just posted a piece today in response to questions in an e-mail).
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Talithacumi
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 267 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Jun 4th, 2008 02:15 am |
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Marcee,
I read your post and quickly scanned the replies - all good, so I'll try not to repeat too much. Just wanted to say that as a lifelong Catholic, I have had ties to the Charismatic Renewal. I graduated from Franciscan U - "Steubie U" some years ago - and if you know anything about that university at all, you know it has big ties to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Then-University President Fr. Michael Scanlan was a part of the original Charismatic Renewal that came out of Duquesne in the '70's and introduced it into the University where it flourished. I think I would say that it "peaked" back in the 80's when I attended. Not to say that it's not still "charismatic", but that the last few times I visited it seems to have "toned down" somewhat. Nothing wrong with that. Some would say that it has "matured."
As for myself, I think one of the beauties of being Catholic is our gift of diversity. In the Catholic Church there are many types of spirituality. We are not "bound" by having to worship with one style or another. I dated a Protestant for many years who belonged to a "bible church" whose creed included, in part, "We believe in the Holy Spirit as evidenced by the speaking of tongues" (or some such - you get the drift). In other words, if you didn't speak in tongues, you weren't "saved." In other denominations, speaking in tongues is considered to be from the Devil. In Catholicism, we believe in St. Paul's understanding of "many gifts, but the same spirit... some speak in tongues, some prophecy, some teach, some preach, some heal, etc...." (paraphrased from Corinthians). But the point is, as my old professor Dr. Mark Miravalle used to say, "There is beauty in diversity; unity in the big things, diversity in the little things."
Methinks that the controversy about the Charismatic Renewal lies with a lot of the older, more traditional Catholics whose only experience of the Charismatic "gifts" was to see it active in Protestant sects such as Pentecostals, those that they labeled "Holy Rollers." There are still quite a few of these in my old Italian-blooded parish who are very distrusting of anything that smacks of "tongues" or healings or prophecy.
And some of that is with good reason. I remember watching a video of a service that my Protestant ex-bf had given me to watch. As I watched this video in which a [woman] pastor went around causing people to be "slain in the spirit," so to speak, I felt really weird. It was not the same as the Charismatic stuff I was used to. It was just... different. Even through the TV screen, it felt... false? And it was just more "weird." The pastor was walking around holding her hand out while someone was trailing after her with tambourines or drums - I forget which - that they'd play until she came to a stop in front of someone, then there was like a drum-roll or something and then she'd "prophecy" and they'd fall down... it was just all very dramatic and some of it felt put on, I felt. Don't get me wrong. Those who "fell in the Spirit" - including my ex bf - were sincerely moved. But the whole event had a sort of new-agey feeling about it that I can't explain; it just didn't sit right with me, though even my feelings about it are not proof of whether or not it was from God. Not all things that are sincerely felt are from God, eh? - Catholic or not, which brings me to my next point...
I think if someone were to ask me what's the difference between Protestant and Catholic Charismatics, I would have to say that with Catholics - at least in my Steubie U experience - it's usually more structured; DISCERNMENT is key. Whenever we would have a Charismatic "Festival of Praise" where there was a lot of healing and praising and worshiping in tongues and prophecy, etc., we had a discernment team. Anyone who felt that they had a "word" from God needed to go through the discernment team first, where they would be prayed over and the team would discern whether it was something that was from the Holy Spirit or not, or whether the timing to present the "word" was proper or not, or whether or not it was for the group or a more personal thing. But in any Protestant charismatic services I've ever been in as a visitor, I noticed very little discernment. One is expected to just accept that it is, in fact, a word from the Holy Spirit and that's all there is to it. I think Catholics just tend to be a lot more aware of how Satan can sneak his way in, and we're just more wary and alert to that possibility and don't take anything for granted that doesn't come directly from Magisterial teaching (generally speaking, of course). Private Revelation is not to be completely trusted without holding it up to the measuring stick of the Truth of Public Revelation. I think that sometimes within Protestantism, it's the other way around.
But like I said, there are different spiritualities. As for me, mine is more or less a mix. I consider myself probably more of a contemplative, as I tend to have a more quiet kind of a prayer life, but I also consider myself Charismatic in the sense that I believe in the "gifts," and I am open to the Spirit "blowing where He will." I don't go around speaking in tongues, healing and prophecying, but if the Spirit would choose to use me for His purposes and grant me any of those gifts in a moment when they were needed, I would be open to using them. I also, if the occasion arises, have been known to pray in tongues on rare occasions. If it happens during a visit to Steubie U where nearly the whole multitude is speaking in tongues, I have felt the possibility, I will admit, that it might be more "spiritual peer pressure" than anything else... but I have had "deep groanings from the Spirit" in front of the Blessed Sacrament in my own more traditional parish church when I was sitting there alone with God. And I know that was not just peer pressure or mob rule.
Ay, ay, there I go again. Sometimes I just get too caught up in my own ramblings. And somewhat  , too. Sorry, people. Maybe I shouldn't say "sorry," because I know darn well I'll probably do it again.  The curse of being a writer, perhaps... especially one that's just in the mood to write...
But I'll stop now. Oh! Except to say, Marcee, pray however you want! Yeah, some things are more for meditation or contemplation while others are more exuberant and joyful or whatever, but it's pretty common sense. You'll pretty much know the difference, and it's fine to mix in personal prayers with "canned" ones in your personal prayer time and even often in group prayer. But it's within the Liturgical gatherings that you really need to be more formal; those are specifically geared towards communal prayer lifted in unison as the Body of Christ. But you'll figure it out... it's not hard. Common sense, really.
OK, I'm done. Really! 
JMJ
- Cheri
Last edited on Wed Jun 4th, 2008 02:44 am by Talithacumi
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“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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left coast mystic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | La Honda, California USA |
| Posts: | 131 |
| First Name: | Marcee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nondenominational charismatic, Presbyterian, long-time lover of the RCC |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 01:07 am |
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Talithacumi wrote: I think if someone were to ask me what's the difference between Protestant and Catholic Charismatics, I would have to say that with Catholics - at least in my Steubie U experience - it's usually more structured; DISCERNMENT is key. Whenever we would have a Charismatic "Festival of Praise" where there was a lot of healing and praising and worshiping in tongues and prophecy, etc., we had a discernment team. Anyone who felt that they had a "word" from God needed to go through the discernment team first, where they would be prayed over and the team would discern whether it was something that was from the Holy Spirit or not, or whether the timing to present the "word" was proper or not, or whether or not it was for the group or a more personal thing.
I'm beginning to see how God has continually put me into faith communities that had much in common with the RCC. My experience in the charismatic communities I have been part of is exactly as you described above, Cheri. This was true in both the nondenominational "Jesus movement" home church that we started out in, and in the Presbyterian church that we matured in. Our awesome God has been preparing me my whole life to be a Catholic!
I, too, am contempative in nature. God has opened to me the riches of identifying with the brokenness of humanity. and I find that this is growing as I pray the "set" prayers (what is the appropriate word?)
However, I am particularly confused about one aspect of prayer in a Catholic context that I believe is a slightly different topic, so I'll start a new one called "Prayer - conversing with God or ???" I'd appreciate further help from you all on that thread.
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Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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