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princessleah
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| Joined: | Tue Mar 27th, 2007 |
| Location: | Adelaide, Australia |
| Posts: | 19 |
| First Name: | Leah | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Adelaide to Rome, I'd say I'm at about Naples!! |
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 10:13 pm |
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I was reading an annotated Catechism the other day, and it mentioned that God hears the prayers of Saints more because they are already in Heaven. Is this true? Is there any Scripture/Tradition that teaches this? I dont reject the concept, it is just the first time I have come across it!
I also read somewhere that God doesnt hear the prayes of someone with a mortal sin on their soul, except prayers of repentance where they truly wish to do penance and change their ways. Could someone perhaps explain this further, please? Because to me, raised as a protestant, it seems crazy that God just doesnt hear the prayers! I mean surely, God hears and answers some prayers of those that are on their journey into the Church? Eg, I would have thought that God can and does use an answered prayer of a non-Catholic to increase their faith in God and draw them towards the Catholic faith.
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2096 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 12:55 am |
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I was reading an annotated Catechism the other day, and it mentioned that God hears the prayers of Saints more because they are already in Heaven.
I have read this in some old texts, but have not encountered it in anything written recently. The idea is that since the saints in heaven are “that much closer” to God, they have more “pull” with him. In a sense this is true, because even the prayers of holy souls on earth are worth more than those of, say, the lukewarm. Why? Because the will of the holy person is much closer to the will of the Father; he is more Christ-like. Christ, for his part, has said, “Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. I knew that thou hearest me always” (John 11:41–42). Again why? “He who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to him” (John 8:29).
It is true that the unrepentant sinner has little voice, but this is not because God has taken it away from him. Rather, the sinner himself refuses to take his burden to the Lord; he rejects prayer. In other words, God would hear his prayer if he would pray, but he refuses to approach the throne of grace. Repentance, however, brings about a change in this attitude and allows the person to speak and God to hear. Repentance is the result of grace — what we call Prevenient Grace (because it “comes before” justification and merit), which is a free gift of God. We believe that he gives this grace to all who, once it is given, will make use of it.
So our conclusion is that Catholics, too, believe that God hears and answers all prayer. But first we have to pray. If we will not, he cannot answer.
David
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 807 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 03:33 am |
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princessleah wrote: I also read somewhere that God doesnt hear the prayes of someone with a mortal sin on their soul, except prayers of repentance where they truly wish to do penance and change their ways.
I would think that just as we established that the closer one gets to God the more they can pray efficaciously. I would argue mainly because they have leanred the secret to prayer, which is 'Thy will be done.' The longer one prays the more we see that it is about changing us to see things from God's perspective, and not the other way round. Jesus says He will give us whatever we ask 'in His name.'
To me prayer is about becoming intimate with God so that His thoughts and ways become increasingly shared with us and we see answers to prayer because we are really learning to rid ourselves of selfish desires and ask for things that would be and are pleasing to Him. He lets us in on His plan so to speak.
Now this is not to say we can not still ask for personal requests or just plain talk to Him. Prayer is a lot of things and there is room for a lot of different prayerful expressions.
Now the inverse of a saint, a person in mortal sin has destroyed all charity in their soul. It is unlikely that they will learn to say 'thy will be done.' In fact because of the state of mortal sin they are in they are probably incapable of doing so. Yet if learning to pray in God's name is what prayer is all about, how can their prayers be effective?
That being said, I will now venture to the land of my opinion. This is, that God of course, hears and knows all things. I would encourage anybody to pray, and hope this leads to repentance and intimacy for those far off. Also, I think that God is very kind. He will answer what prayers He will how He will. Therfore, I am not going to personally agree with this statement you referenced (unless I am wrong and need correction), because I do not know everything about God. It may be that answering a prayer would be a way of wooing back the sinner to see his need.
So while I do think that most prayers of those in mortal sin, may be futile, I do not say it must always be this way (though I may be wrong). Perhaps God will answer their prayer in order to fulfill a larger plan of redemption. Or perhaps the person is not really in mortal sin in this instance because the very fact that they are still sincerely reaching out to God indicates that they have not so deeply wounded their soul.
Interesting question. In short my answer is, I don't really know.
Brian
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 09:22 am |
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princessleah wrote: I also read somewhere that God doesnt hear the prayes of someone with a mortal sin on their soul, except prayers of repentance where they truly wish to do penance and change their ways. Could someone perhaps explain this further, please? Because to me, raised as a protestant, it seems crazy that God just doesnt hear the prayers!
I was raised Catholic, and it seems ludicrous to me that there is any prayer God doesn't hear. If God sees, hears, and knows all, how can God not see, hear, and know a prayer?
In mortal sin, we turn away from God. That's what breaks our relationship with God. In prayer, we turn toward God, so the act of prayer is the beginning of the healing process. Even if we do not voice our repentance in that prayer, we have begun the healing process.
Remember the story of the Prodigal Son? He came back willing to confess his sin against his father, but his father ran out to greet him with open arms even before he could ask for forgiveness. God is ready to embrace us when we just turn toward God.
I remember when my daughter was a certain age, I was no longer allowed to acknowledge that I knew her when we were in the mall together. But every now and then, I could see her sneak a peek to make sure I was still there. I took her to buy her first formal dress but I wasn't allowed anywhere near the dressing room. She sent the sales clerk to pick out something. I picked out a dress and gave it to the clerk, and I told her to tell my daughter she (the clerk) had picked it out. That's the one she bought. In fact, I picked out every formal she ever wore, but she didn't know it until long after she was married.
God attends to us in the same way. God is willing to stand aside and let us make our own choices, but sometimes God sends us the right choice. When we turn our backs on God, God accepts our wishes and gets out of the way, but God is always a few steps behind us just waiting for us to turn around and recognize our need. And like the father of the Prodigal Son, God is waiting for us to return with rings for our fingers and a cloak for our shoulders, ready to kill the fatted calf to celebrate our return, for there is more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 who have no need of repentance.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Candlemass
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| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 465 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 09:52 am |
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| I can't wait to celebrate w/My Father!
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"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 807 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 01:46 pm |
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cajunrick wrote: I picked out a dress and gave it to the clerk, and I told her to tell my daughter she (the clerk) had picked it out. That's the one she bought. In fact, I picked out every formal she ever wore, but she didn't know it until long after she was married.
That is a nice story.
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