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Jackie
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| Joined: | Sat May 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Jersey Shore, New Jersey USA |
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| First Name: | Jackie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2007 09:28 pm |
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Anyone read the book "Conversations with God", by Neil Donald Walsch?
He is a new age author? My brother, who now professes he does not "subscribe" to our religion quotes this guy all the time. We have gotten into some rather alarming discussions regarding it.
He claims that we are all gods. And in order for God to know himself, he had to create us. UGGGGGGGGGHhHHHHHHhhhhhhhhh
I do not know anything about this author but I did browse his website. OMGosh........You'd think he's see for himself this aithor is not wrapped to tight.
Anyone wanna comment on the gods claim?
Last edited on Sat May 12th, 2007 10:00 pm by Jackie
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2007 10:15 pm |
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Well, Jackie, how about this? I think it spells things out pretty much as they are.
They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I say, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince.” Arise, O God, judge the earth; for to thee belong all the nations!
Psalm 82:5–8
David
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Jackie
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| Joined: | Sat May 12th, 2007 |
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| First Name: | Jackie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2007 10:35 pm |
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With tears, I read this David. Thank-you.
I press on.
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CajunRick
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| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2007 11:00 pm |
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And don't forget section 460 of the Catechism, which quotes several Church fathers:
460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."
You can read the footnotes in the Catechism to see the sources of the quotes, or read it at St. Charles Borromeo church's web site.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2007 11:28 pm |
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Jackie, I want to take a moment to welcome you to the Coming Home Network. I hadn't noticed that you had just registered today. We're happy to have you with us.
I see that you are a "cradle Catholic" like me. Have you always been a member of the Church, or (like so many others) did you drift away for awhile and come back? We'll be looking forward to hearing your story in Fellowship Hall or Conversion Stories, whichever is more appropriate.
Thanks for joining us. Please let us know if we can help in any way.
PS: Please look for the private message I'm sending you.....
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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brian
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| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Sun May 13th, 2007 09:48 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote: Well, Jackie, how about this? I think it spells things out pretty much as they are.
They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I say, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince.” Arise, O God, judge the earth; for to thee belong all the nations!
Psalm 82:5–8 David
Are you saying you agree with the assesment? I could see it up to a point but isn't it falling into error when it says..."in order for God to know himself, he had to create us."
I do not think that is true. I do not think God needed us or anything at all to know anything about Himself.
Actually, I know see your post does not say you agree with th equote but rather that you are using the bible verse to distinguish what we do believe. But I still wonder if you would agree that the statement I referenced of God needing us to know Himself is one that is incorrect and if you chose not to comment on it for any reason.
Last edited on Sun May 13th, 2007 09:51 pm by brian
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun May 13th, 2007 10:00 pm |
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brian wrote: Are you saying you agree with the assesment?
No, we are disagreeing. We are stating the Catholic and scriptural positions on equating us with gods. God needs nothing from us, including our existence. God desired to created us and desires our adoration, but God has no need for us at all.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun May 13th, 2007 10:25 pm |
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I meant it as a refutation, Brian, not an acceptance of New Age. The definition of “gods” is equivocated between Christianity and New Age, so there is no real agreement.
Read John 10:22–39 and see that this is not what the New Agers mean by “We are all gods. And in order for God to know himself, he had to create us.” We are not gods, according to Christ, unless the word of the one true God has been addressed to us, and then only in the measure that we accept that word sufficiently to become more like him.
This is why the faithless (and such are the New Agers, for they think they have “knowledge” that will refute our faith) will “die like men and fall like any prince.” Let us, then, pray that the true God will “judge the earth,” for to him “belong all the nations.”
This may not be the way Jackie understood my post. Maybe her tears are because she thinks, as you seem to, that there is some agreement between being “like gods” (cf. Genesis 3:5) and receiving “adoption as sons” (cf. Galatians 4:5; Romans 8:23).
David
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Jackie
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| Joined: | Sat May 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Jersey Shore, New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 120 |
| First Name: | Jackie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 09:31 am |
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They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I say, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince.” Arise, O God, judge the earth; for to thee belong all the nations!
Psalm 82:5–8460
The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."
This may not be the way Jackie understood my post. Maybe her tears are because she thinks, as you seem to, that there is some agreement between being “like gods” (cf. Genesis 3:5) and receiving “adoption as sons” (cf. Galatians 4:5; Romans 8:23).
Pressed for time, I comment abridged..............I think I got this right in my head.
The verse Psalm 82: 5-8 tells me that we are gods, but only if we partake in His nature. ( all good, holy ,right and true) outside of that, we are in darkness. True "Son"-ship can be found only in His Son Jesus Christ.
My tears are because my struggle is with my brothers thinking that he is a god (based on the writings of Neil Donald Walsch) becasue like God, he creates.
The verse tells me that the earth will be shaken. I think of a rug. When you skake it out, all the crap falls out. I saw a sign on a billboard the other day. It said, "don't be so open minded that your brains fall out"
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 09:59 am |
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I like your thinking, Jackie. Especially that “billboard maxim.” There is a lot of truth in it.
David
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Jackie
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| Joined: | Sat May 12th, 2007 |
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 11:36 am |
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My Dad told me to read the St. Thomas of Aquinias (sp?)
Any recommendations for this and other great philosophical thinkers of the church?
Any helps would be appreciated. Thanks Jackie
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 03:00 pm |
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Jackie, St. Thomas Aquinas’s works are vast and sometimes difficult for modern minds to wrap around, so you may want to nibble around the edges first. Here is a website that should help you learn something about the Thomist school of philosophy and theology. And this site has online and downloadable texts of a number of his works, along with a treasure trove of numerous other Catholic and classical authors. (St. Thomas is listed toward the top of the list under Aquinas.) I would also recommend Walter Farrell’s Companion to the Summa (scroll down to F) as an excellent “reader’s digest” introduction to St. Thomas. Happy reading!
David
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mg57
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| Location: | Connecticut USA |
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 11:34 pm |
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Jackie -
You may find these useful as well -
St. Thomas Aquinas in Today's World , - Dr. Theresa Farnan
A series of 30 min. audio programs, - downloadable.
Also, - a great help and corrective to all the "pop" philosophy and psychology in today's culture -
Mortimer J. Adler
Mortimer J. (Jerome) Adler was born in New York City, the son of an immigrant jewelry salesman. He dropped out of school at 14 years of age and went to work as a secretary and copy boy at the New York Sun, hoping to become a journalist. After a year, he took night classes at Columbia University to improve his writing.
He then decided to study philosophy at Columbia University, where he received a scholarship. But he was so focused on philosophy that he failed to complete the requisite physical education course to earn his bachelor's degree. His command of the classics became so great that Columbia University awarded him a doctorate in philosophy a few years after he began teaching there.
This kind of environment inspired his early interest in reading and the study of the "Great Books" of Western Civilization. He also promoted the idea that philosophy should be integrated with science, literature, and religion.
This combination of interests dominated his career at educational and research institutions such as the University of Chicago, the University of North Carolina (Chapel Hill), the Institute for Philosophical Research, and the Aspen Institute. Adler helped to found the latter two institutes. At the Aspen Institute, he has been teaching business leaders the classics for more than 40 years.
He was also on the board of the Ford Foundation and the board of the Encyclopedia Britannica, where his influence was clearly shown regarding its policies and programs. He is also the co-founder, along with Max Weismann, of The Center for the Study of The Great Ideas.
Dr. Adler, a self-described pagan for most of his life, converted to Christianity in 1984 and was baptized by an Episcopalian priest on April 21 of that year (see his account in Chapter 9 of his second autobiography A Second Look in the Rearview Mirror: Further Autobiographical Reflections of a Philosopher at Large).
In December of 1999, he converted to Roman Catholicism.
http://www.radicalacademy.com/adlerdirectory.htm
http://radicalacademy.com/adlerbio.htm
NOTE: Edited to shorten first link.
Last edited on Fri May 18th, 2007 11:40 pm by
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