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andersent
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| First Name: | Todd | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly united methodist, now Catholic |
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 02:44 pm |
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what do we think the purpose is to things like asteroids? i know that in fact, we know very little about outer space so it would be rash to try to explain everything. But we do know from science that asteroids or something like them have apparently hit the earth in the past several times. Doesn't this look like random "accidents" and destruction? In other words, how does this show a God who is "in control" of all things?
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CajunRick
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 05:52 pm |
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andersent wrote: In other words, how does this show a God who is "in control" of all things?
What it shows us is that we cannot understand the mind of God. It is a challenge to us to faithfully accept the universe God has given us, including its perils.
The Catechism teaches:
324 The fact that God permits physical and even moral evil is a mystery that God illuminates by his Son Jesus Christ who died and rose to vanquish evil. Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
Did God preordain the destruction of Hurricane Katrina? Did God choose to punish the people of the islands of the Indian Ocean with the tsunami of December 26, 2004? I don't believe that. The fact that there is chaos in the midst of order in the universe reflects the sin that was introduced into the world, disturbing God's perfectly ordered creation. We will not again meet perfection until we see God face to face.
In this life, the closest to perfection we will come is to receive our Lord and Savior in the Eucharist, where humanity meets Divinity.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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miles Dei
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 05:55 pm |
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Earth's geological history, as well as that of the moon, have shown us the profound impact that asteroids and meteorites can have on the developmental history of a planet or other heavenly body. They have the power to destory as well as the power to "create" a planet's surface and ecology anew.
I personally believe that meteorites are one of the means by which God alters the Universe and our terrestrial environment as He sees fit. I think of them as his "instruments," so to speak.
____________________
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to All leads to One,
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to our Vision.
-Serj Tankian
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 09:59 pm |
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But we do know from science that asteroids or something like them have apparently hit the earth in the past several times. Doesn't this look like random "accidents" and destruction? In other words, how does this show a God who is "in control" of all things?
Not really, Todd. You have already said that “we know very little” about these things. And one thing we do know is that often appearances are deceiving.
What I see lacking here is a confidence in God as the bountiful Creator and loving Father. Where are you on the topics of Providence and Salvation? Are you able to admit that God knows a lot more about running his universe than do we, his creatures? Are you able to admit that his love will keep you safe, even if the earth should be destroyed in a collision with an asteroid. Not that you will not die anyway in due course, but he will make provision for your eternal happiness (cf. John 14:1–3), regardless of how you may suffer physically (cf. Romans 8:17). He suffered physically, he died, and he rose again. As St. Paul tells us, “Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep” (1 Thessalonians 4:14).
David
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andersent
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 10:50 pm |
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| David, thanks for the response (here and elsewhere that I have posted). I don't think this is an issue of confidence in God's ability to keep asteroids from hitting us any day now--I don't really stay up at night worrying about that. What my mind can't help to wonder about though is the evidence of the physical world around us and how it sometimes looks very chaotic and random--yet this, in the midst of such obvious design and purpose. Asteroids and thier (apparent) collision with our own planet in the past seem, to my mind, to be in the category of seeming random and chaotic--in other words, it is hard to imagine what purpose they serve in the universe by a God who is in control of all things. As another replier mentioned though, perhaps they do have some purpose (or did in the past) in forming the planets, etc. Or, maybe they can be thought of as like pebbles we see on earth--sort of remnant of the bigger formation of rock that don't necessarily have a giant purpose but are just part of the process. Sort of like when a carpenter cuts lumber there is left over sawdust--it's a consequence not a purpose. If there really was some sort of "big bang" then maybe the stuff floating around out there is just the left over "debris"--and perhaps God directs them from time to time to do serve a purpose. See, in my thinking, if asteroids or meteorites, or whatever, really did hit the planet earth in the distant past (and there is good scientific evidence to believe so) than there must be a reason for it--it couldn't have really been an accident. Yet, there is little scientific theory I know of that can give such an event a real purpose. Yet, it is also true that scientists now know that hurricanes and lightning serve important purposes for the earth. So, as you said David, it might just be that the asteroid question is something that on the surface appears to look random or even "evil" but perhaps it has some small or even great purpose that we just haven't figured out yet. I was just wondering if anyone out there has made any such connection. I think it's cool when science can show the design and purpose of things in the universe. That's one of the reasons I enjoy being Catholic--the Catholic tradition takes seriously the "natural" revelation of God. While the supernatural revelation of the bible, the Church, and tradition goes beyond natural revelation, God is the creator of both. So my mind always wants to try to harmonize them both. I think it's a great way to evangelize today because most people I know that object to religious thinking today are starting out with a naturalistic (materialistic) bias that sees the universe as natural processes that are random, mechanical, etc. So, I think the more we understand these things from a teleological and theological point of view, the more we can deepen our own faith and help others to see God in the natural realm so they can begin to take seriously the supernatural revelation of God...
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andersent
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 10:53 pm |
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| Thanks Rick. While I agree that natural disasters affect humanity because of the fall of Adam and Eve, I also think that it is scientifically shown that things we would call disasters occured prior to the fall. Perhaps things like volcanoes, tornadoes, hurricanes etc would have still existed had Adam and Eve not fallen--after all, science has shown that such things do actually seem to help the planet. Maybe humans just wouldn't have ever been harmed by such things had the fall not occurred. But that's why I asked the question--it seems to me that such things have occured prior to the fall (for sure asteroids or meteorites hitting our planet). But perhaps they just seem random or accidental to us. It's hard to come up with much of an explanation though to show how there is a purpose to it....
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sat May 5th, 2007 11:21 pm |
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I don't think this is an issue of confidence in God's ability to keep asteroids from hitting us any day now--I don't really stay up at night worrying about that. What my mind can't help to wonder about though is the evidence of the physical world around us and how it sometimes looks very chaotic and random--yet this, in the midst of such obvious design and purpose. Asteroids and their (apparent) collision with our own planet in the past seem, to my mind, to be in the category of seeming random and chaotic--in other words, it is hard to imagine what purpose they serve in the universe by a God who is in control of all things.
I too was not addressing the issue of whether the earth is in danger of being hit by an asteroid any time soon, but our creaturehood that can’t see far enough to make out the patterns of regularity and obedience to the divine will. And I wanted you to see that our faith goes where science is unable to find a path. An asteroid, in itself, has no purpose. But God has a purpose, and he arranged all things according to his wisdom and will. This is why, as Fr. Groeschel has said, “there are no accidents.”
I think it's cool when science can show the design and purpose of things in the universe. That's one of the reasons I enjoy being Catholic--the Catholic tradition takes seriously the "natural" revelation of God. While the supernatural revelation of the bible, the Church, and tradition goes beyond natural revelation, God is the creator of both. So my mind always wants to try to harmonize them both.… So, I think the more we understand these things from a teleological and theological point of view, the more we can deepen our own faith and help others to see God in the natural realm so they can begin to take seriously the supernatural revelation of God.
If ever there were a disconnect between revelation and science, that’s when I would begin to wonder whether God was a fantasy or science (literally, “knowledge”) actually knew nothing. So you can see right here one of the reasons why I am Catholic.
But the word that always made the most sense to me is this: “And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.”
David
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Br_Carlo
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Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 08:56 pm |
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God's peace. According to the late Stephen J. Gould, the great asteroid hit that triggered the fall of the dinosaurs at the end of the Cretaceous was a lucky stroke for the mammals that led to man, since that fortuitous evolutionary event would otherwise never have happened.  Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
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