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joyfulseraph
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 5th, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 5 |
| First Name: | Rachel | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Lutheran - 3 years, went to a Lutheran school, Assembly ... |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 03:34 pm |
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After you became a catholic, what did you lose? what did you gain?
Did you wait until you fully understood catholicism to convert? or did you jump into it right away?
Did/do you miss anything from your former denomination?
Did/do you feel settled? did you feel at peace with your decision?
Did your family and/or friends understand?
What was the main thing that ultimately lead you to convert?
Is there anything else you can tell me about your journey?
Thanks. 
____________________
Teach me your way, O LORD; lead me in a straight path because of my oppressors. ~Psalms 27:11
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kersca
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| Joined: | Fri May 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Adam | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 04:32 pm |
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Rachel,
"Did you wait until you fully understood catholicism to convert? or did you jump into it right away?"
Actually, no I didn't full undersyand Catholicism when I joined. Now, over 8 years later I still don't. Catholicism is huge. I am constantly studying. The funny thing, I have lkearned more about Lutheran theology since becoming a Catholic than I had my whole life in Lutheran schools. Growth is that way.
Originally, Catachumens would have been instructed in the faith prior to being baptized, but there was a whole lot that was "kept" from them till the last minute. Catachumens would never have seen the Eucharistic liturgy as they were dismissed before it. Catachumens were taught the "Our Father" and the "regulae fide" just prior to baptism. The creeds were later used instead of the "regulae fide/rule of faith". ("Mass of the Early Christians" by Michael Acqualina)
So, when I became a Catholic I did not know nearly as much about the faith as I do now. Was I "going it blind"? Well, no. I knew enough. God was leading me as well. I came to the conclusion that either (a) the Catholic Church was the one true Church or (b) all of Christianity is a farce or fabrication. I simply have faith that God has not left us orphans. He has given us the Spirit and the Church. The church is an obedient servant of Christ and carries His will throughout the ages.
As the other questions, my break is nearly over so I have to get back to work.
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 768 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 05:00 pm |
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After you became a catholic, what did you lose? what did you gain?
I lost the confusion I felt trying to make consistent sense of the Bible while listening to so many Protestant voices. I gained many things, but most precious to me, the Eucharist.
Did you wait until you fully understood catholicism to convert? or did you jump into it right away?
There were and still are many things I don't understand. I love Rick's tagline about not needing to understand in order to believe, but needing to believe in order to understand. (My paraphrase...) And it took me years of jumping in and back out of the Tiber to finally make the decision to swim all the way - and about halfway over, I started to flail, but encouragement from my sponsor got me back on track.
Did/do you miss anything from your former denomination?
The beautiful Lutheran hymns.
Did/do you feel settled? did you feel at peace with your decision?
Yes. Though at times I ask 'contentious' questions on this board, it's only because I'm 98% settled and I'm trying to settle that last 2%.
Did your family and/or friends understand?
Most of them ignored me and don't want to talk about it. Only one friend really tried to talk me out of it, to no avail.
What was the main thing that ultimately led you to convert?
Hmmm..... I realized I could no longer be Protestant. It made no sense. There was only one direction left to explore - after I ruled out Orthodoxy for much the same reason Protestantism was no longer an option. Lack of unity.
Is there anything else you can tell me about your journey?
Taking the Eucharist is unfailingly rich. I cannot imagine why anyone who understands the reality of Christ's Body and Blood could ever leave this faith. I'm IN the Church, but I'll never finish knowing more about it.
Jill
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Free
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 208 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 09:42 pm |
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Hi, Rachel. Lots of conversion stories are available in this forum. Mine was posted about 5 weeks ago, and it was called "From Word of Faith to Catholic."
I feel secure as a Catholic. I'm constantly learning yet I no longer feel uncertain and driven in a search for the truth. I've found the true Church established by the Truth himself, and I haven't the slightest doubt that it is the one and only Church established by Jesus Christ.
I feel secure because of the solid history of the Church, because of the worldwide expanse of the Church, because of the great cloud of witnesses praying for the faithful here on earth, because of the Pope and Magisterium watching out for our welfare, and because of the regular meals I am receiving from the altar.
During this first year as a Catholic and receiving the Blessed Sacrament regularly, I am emotionally overwhelmed each time to receive into myself Jesus Christ himself, with tears coming frequently, and I am physically strengthened week by week to have the real food and real drink of his body and blood. Just as we feel better when we eat real food and not junk food, I feel better and AM better, stronger, sweeter, humbler from partaking of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Son of God.
May God richly bless you on your journey, and I do hope you come home to the Catholic Church. You will be welcomed with rejoicing.
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Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1223 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 10:36 pm |
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After you became a Catholic, what did you lose?
I lost acceptance by dear relatives who, in their small rural community, have been limited to the realm of white Protestant fundamentalism.
what did you gain?
Truth, the Eucharist and Mass, the Sacrament of Penance, the Magisterium and Church Authority, Sacred Tradition and Church history, Catholic spirituality and Liturgy, the Blessed Mother and the Communion of Saints, spiritual direction and help toward holiness
Did you wait until you fully understood Catholicism to convert?
or did you jump into it right away?
The process took over two years. I made peace with the major issues, finally deciding to trust Mother Church on a few of the Marian doctrines that still seemed strange at that point.
Did/do you miss anything from your former denomination?
I miss seeing wonderful Baptist friends, but God has brought some extraordinary people into my life now.
Did/do you feel settled? did you feel at peace with your decision?
There is no possibility of peace outside the will of God. I knew I would find peace only in obediently entering the Catholic Church. Daily adoration before the Blessed Sacrament gave (and gives) a peace that passes understanding.
Did your family and/or friends understand?
Those who knew my willingness to follow Truth wherever He led me, understood and respected my decision. The others loved me, but I have realized that they never really knew me. No, they do not understand.
What was the main thing that ultimately led you to convert?
Obedience to the Holy Spirit's call and a hunger for the Eucharist
Is there anything else you can tell me about your journey?
Every day I humbly thank God for His great mercy in shepherding me into the Church.
Welcome to the forum, Rachel. I understand your questions and had similar ones myself early in the journey. Eventually you will realize that the only question, really, is this:
What is the Holy Spirit asking me to do?
Grace and peace,
Becky
Last edited on Fri Jun 6th, 2008 01:49 am by Intercessor
____________________
"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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tedjenczewski
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Richmond, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 263 |
| First Name: | Ted | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Presbyterian, revert Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 01:37 am |
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| God bless you Rachel. I am a revert from presbyterianism rather than a convert. You will see a common trend in all our replies. In the end, the major reason most of us turned to the Catholic Church is a deep longing, moved by the Holy Spirit, to receive the true Bread of Heaven, the Holy Eucharist, the body and blood of Jesus. Last edited on Fri Jun 6th, 2008 01:38 am by tedjenczewski
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"...the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1Tim 3, 15
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BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 812 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 01:52 am |
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joyfulseraph wrote: After you became a catholic, what did you lose? what did you gain? I lost some of the relationship I had with my wife for a few weeks. She, actually we both, were raised in a strong anti-Catholic religion and she clings to some of the "old ways" even though she has not been to her "preferred church' in 35 years or so. One the other side of the coin, I have enjoyed, to the fullest, my association with my fellow members of the parish. I help out in a few ministries and I always go the the KofC breakfasts for more association, handshakes, hugs, etc.
Did you wait until you fully understood catholicism to convert? or did you jump into it right away? I studied on my own for 4.5 years. I then realized that everything I was learning pointed toward the RCC. In years gone by, my grandmother had taught me that I was responsible for my own behavior and that I should always do what I thought was right. So, I joined an RCIA group and I have never looked back. I now help out in RCIA even though I do NOT understand it all. I understand some concepts of the teachings of the Church and there are other concepts I accept with the idea that maybe someday I will understand those also. After realizing that I have been lied to by the other church, I tend to check every idea against the Bible and/or Sacred Tradition.
Did/do you miss anything from your former denomination? Yes, I miss the old hymns I used to sing. Also, I was a church organist for 17 years and in a way, I miss that. On the other hand, I don't need to practice so much now. I did however buy a full copy of the hymnal we use in my parish and I am learning the hymns that are new to me.
Did/do you feel settled? did you feel at peace with your decision? Yes, GREATLY. I felt and still feel that I am following the correct path. I also find great peace in accepting and sharing Holy Communion, taking Holy communion to shut-ins and Friday Adoration. In fact, that was one of the things that hekped bring me to the church. I visited a few times during the week, when nobody would be around. I realized that the corner of the church with the red light in it was different. It was very peaceful and I kept wanting to return to it. I can remember just sitting near in the red candle corner and feel bathed in peacefullness.
Did your family and/or friends understand? My kids had no trouble accepting my joining the Church. My wife, however threw a 6 month fit. I think she would have left me except she did not like the idea of living alone and on only half a retirement. Even my older daughter was on her case for being such a closed-minded bigot. One day she said to my wife that I could have taken up bar-hopping instead of a religion. My wife was NOT amused!!!
What was the main thing that ultimately lead you to convert? I felt that something was missing in my life so I started studying. Considering the universe and the life forms on the earth and all the laws that govern them, I have never had an inclination to believe evolution. Therefore, there must be something else. So, I started studying. In fact, I earned a Ph.D. from one of those protestant religions that is more of a social order than a church of worship. I also started studying the RCC and her teachings. Every time I had a question, I would look it up in the Bible and other resources. Each time the answer came up that the RCC had the correct perspective on the question. When the "dust settled" I wound up with a Ph.D. in a protestant religion, protestant preacher papers and I was a Catholic. With my warped sense of humor, I think that is REALLY funny!!!
Is there anything else you can tell me about your journey? I am glad I came. I will NEVER leave. We have 7 parishes in the valley so whenever I am troubled, I can go into the nerarest church for a dose of peacefulness.
Thanks. You're welcome.  BTW, my avatar is St. Mary and Child that we pass by on the way into my church via the North entrance.
Last edited on Fri Jun 6th, 2008 01:55 am by BodRod
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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sewnsew
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 842 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 01:33 pm |
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I grew up in a Strong Anglo Catholic enviroment- I missed that when I moved to the States and attended an Episcopal church. I married into a Southern Baptist family and in rreading to defend my faith, discovered thatt IT was in rebellion and "going through the motions" of being Catholic- so i knew that I had to become truly Catholic instead of "play CATHOLIC"
I miss the formality of my old church but nothing else. My teenagers and husband took a 6 month or so time period to follow me- which was painful as we attended separate churches for a time. I was willing to go with them to theirs and to Mass on my own but there was so much turmoiol in my old church that they asked me not to. I didn't lose any GOOD friends but I lost some i thought were friends. Neither my family or my inlaws understand and varying recations from sort acceptance to outright opposition (and many harsh words)
I than God everyday that He led me into the Catholic church. Since I came from a background that in theory was very close to Catholic I had no major theology hurdles to overcome. I admit that I was unsure on contraception but even that was being shaken as a protestant so it became a non issue before I joined. I appreciate that I can go into a church any day a pray, I appreciate the ability to go to any Church (Catholic) whenever they have mass even if it is a differnt parish- the whole world is now open to me. Do I have any regrets- heck no not one - well actually my one regret is that I didn't learn years sooner that I could become Catholic.
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kersca
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Adam | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 07:20 pm |
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Is there anything else you can tell me about your journey?
Well, being raised Lutheran I never felt "on the outside" or persecued. Perhaps its that Lutheranism isn't as large as Catholicism so it doesn't make as good a target. As a catholic, I have often had to step up to the plate to defend the Catholic Church from those who ridicule her. I made up my mind some time ago that even though passive silence is easiest, I am dutybound to at least ask that they not slander the Catholic Church. It has had some positive response but hostile people see one who defends the Catholic Church as a fool. In their minds I am defending the undefensible.
Some time back a friend mentioned that a bunch of guys were re-roofing a youth ministers house and asked if I wanted to help. I had attended that church many years back in my wanderings. While stripping the roof the men were on an anti-Catholic rant criticicizing everthing from baptismal regeneration to the Knights of Columbus. My friend did not mention to them that I was a Catholic. After some time, I said..." you do know that I am a Catholic and I belong to the Knights as well". It went into a theological conversation and in the end I had not convinced anyone of Catholic doctrine but they at least heard Catholic doctrine from someone who (a) loved Catholicism and (b) was on that roof doing good works for a stranger. God gave me that roof! God might have used me to open a door for one of those guys, who knows. At very least, they learned that Catholic doctrines are not haphazard or ignorant of the Bible.
Adam
Last edited on Fri Jun 6th, 2008 07:22 pm by kersca
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 944 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 12:57 am |
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One of the hardest things I had to contend with when I was more "actively" Protestant was the constant flow of anti-Catholic statements made out of ignorance (and I don't mean this to cast aspersions on the people making these comments, some were and remain good friends.) and the sheer knowlege that whatever it was they were talking about at that given time would take HOURS to unravel.
Well, few of us have that kind of time at our disposal, and almost none of us, if we're laity, and married with kids and have one or two jobs will see that kind of necessary time to help unravel the misconceptions. As I kept hearing more and more of these statements, and I became increasingly frustrated with the lack of even rudimentary homework on Church history, etc. the more I began to realize how out of place I was.
A course on church history really helped to bring me back to my senses, and to paraphrase what Cardinal Newman said in his Essay on the Development of Doctrine, if you're deep into history, protestantism in you will be history.
There are only so many misunderstandings, snide comments, eyeball rolling and sanctimonious displays of trendy notions having almost little or even no basis in church tradition, history or even common sense one can take. And, to be fair, I'm sure many Protestants have said likewise about us. SOme of us go overboard in our pious displays of affection for Mary to the point that we can risk becoming EXACTLY what the most rock-solid anti-Catholic (Pensacola Bible School type) Protestant thinks about our relationship with Mary. And, boy, have I had to play Ricky Ricardo "let me 'splain something Loocy" all over again, and sometime's it's anything but funny or amusing.
What hurts sometimes is hearing a person who's been an active devout Catholic for a long time, join a protestant church and all of a sudden take a look around and notice a lack of reverence for Mary and begins to feel almost guilty for something so precious she or he's believe in for so long, only to be given the dismissive "Oh, well: we don't worship Mary...." and the temp in the room dropped to freezing from 70 degrees in seconds to that person.
The more I became exposed to these incidents and the more baloney I heard during the pedophile crisis, the more I knew I'd made a mistake because I knew deep inside much of what was being said, repeated and recycled for good piling on mea sures was so out of synch with reality.
I knew Jesus' Church that He founded could never be as bad, corrupt or outright mean as the second-guessers and haters were doing their hardest to make it out to be. And believe me, the tipping point didn't take long for me to reach during that crisis.
Ironically enough, I left in disgust during the first pedophile crisis involving Fr. James Porter of the Fall River diocese, and it was during the Boston Globe's unravelling of the second and much more massive pedophile crisis that I returned home. Thankfully, t hough it was a dear Protestant fr iend, who is also a close friend and classmate of Tom Howard at Wheaton, who ripped into me one morning for being so rigidly selfrighteous about this and almost like Paul in Damascus, the scales began to fall in rapid succession.
And yes, I could see what I refused to see before or wanted to admit to wanting to refuse seeing. Complicated? Yeah. But aren't all conversions, reversions or coming back to senses?
Hey, there's an idea: How 'bout a Coming to Senses Network! Nahhh. Marcus & Co have already done a great job setting up the first one. Setting up another would be kind of P p p p rotestant. Ohhhhh nooo, I don't want to repeat that mistake for Luther or myself. 35,000 different reasons tell me it's "not prudent."
Wow, I can't even believe I typed that without notes and scraps to help with the old recollections. When you've got something you want to share to help others, it just flows from the head to heart to typing fingers.
____________________
For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 812 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 01:30 am |
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Steven Barrett wrote: One of the hardest things I had to contend with when I was more "actively" Protestant was the constant flow of anti-Catholic statements made out of ignorance ........
Humans work very hard at being ignorant. They select what they will believe and then look for support for those beliefs. If they don't find support, they will develop a reason why they should believe anyway. Even when offered evidence of direction or facts, they will not believe or even consider any other possibilities of belief. AND .... this type of behavior is not limited to religious concepts. It is also true in education, science (or should I say Junk science), health, etc. etc. etc.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1627 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 05:09 pm |
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Welcome to the forum, Rachel. I love answering questions, so this is fun.
After you became a catholic, what did you lose? what did you gain?
Nothing except perhaps a bit of the warmth of fellowship that evangelicals are known for (if you look around hard enough that can be found in catholic circles, too, though).
I gained primarily the benefits of understanding and being literally part of the One True Church, and the faith that has been passed down from Jesus and the apostles to us. Also, the sacraments in fuller measure (I already had baptism, and also marriage)
Did you wait until you fully understood catholicism to convert? or did you jump into it right away?
Yes (intense study of 10 months). By some standards this was "right away" but I learned quickly and had great teachers.
Did/do you miss anything from your former denomination?
Sometimes, the fellowship, as already noted. Protedtants also know the Bible much better, which is appealing to me, as I love the Bible so much. But again, if you look around, you can find Catholics who love and know the Bible every bit as much. There's just less of them, proportionately.
Did/do you feel settled? did you feel at peace with your decision?
Absolutely. One has a marvelous sense of peace and joy as a Catholic. I was very content as an evangelical, but I didn't know what I was missing.
Did your family and/or friends understand?
No, but they never talked about it much. Because I had been an apologist as a Protestant, I think people realized that I could defend my decision, and they didn't want to "mess with" that. I think Protestants too often will simply shut down the lines of inquiry that might suggest that Catholicism is true. Better to ignore it than to face what to many of them is unthinkable: that Catholicism is the fullness of Christian truth.
What was the main thing that ultimately lead you to convert?
Development of doctrine was the biggest element, but that was preceded by a study of the origins of Protestantism and the contraception issue.
Is there anything else you can tell me about your journey?
Lots! Here are several versions of my conversion story:
My Odyssey From Evangelicalism to Catholicism
How Newman Convinced me of the Apostolicity of the Catholic Church
My Conversion to the Catholic Church (Transcript of a Radio Interview with Al Kresta) (link to the audio interview)
Kresta in the Afternoon with host Al Kresta, 30 April 2002
Conversion: Links to Parts One / Two / Three / Four (40 minutes total)
My Conversion Story in a Nutshell (+ Funny Baptism Trivia)
The Epistemology of My Conversion / My (Protestant) Letter to Karl Keating in 1990 / How I Became an Apologist
Gratefulness For My Evangelical Protestant Background and the Wonderful Teachings and Blessings Obtained Therefrom (Rev. Dick Bieber et al)
150 Reasons Why I am a Catholic (Revised)
Brief Conversion Testimony
(Spirit Morning Show, with Bruce and Kris McGregor, 15 February 2008)
Link (m3u file) (30 minutes)
Thanks.
You're welcome. Tell us more about you too!
Last edited on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 05:44 pm by Dave Armstrong
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Steven Barrett
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 944 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 12:09 am |
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Cliff, you have a remarkable insight. I'm glad you mentioned education because I'm becoming more and more convinced that education schools are as worthless when it comes to creating better teachers as some "journalism" departments are to creating better reporters.
Theology departments ought to be more concerned with helping their students become better Catholics if they go to a Catholic college. And that means teaching the kids that abortion is murder and so forth. (That'd be a good start. And that the Reformation didn't help Christianity. That'd help, too.) Education departments ought to be more concerned with creating more TEACHERS, fewer $250,000 public school superintendents, assistants to assistants to real principals*  and so-called "journalism" departments need to work on teaching their students how to become REPORTERS, NOT JOURNALISTS AND DO THE JOB OF REPORTING, i.e, mastering the inverted pyramind and most of all, telling the truth.
Boy, am I asking for a lot! 
*BTW what do they teach guys in "Ed schools" who study the mysterious art of becoming royal pains in the butt (mastering the techniques of "education policy formation"  ) when it comes union-busting, outsourcing and humiliating already extremely low paid and overworked school cafeteria workers and lying through one's teeth ala Josef Goebbels?
I'm sure it's nothing anywhere close to Catholic Social Justice for the Protestant Social Gospel! We've got one of those experts trained at such an institution--Berkeley, in fact. Would you guys please take him back and stash him in some remote college and school district up in the upper upper Cascades?
____________________
For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 812 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 01:27 am |
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Well Steven, it is pretty easy to complain about education, the government, the welfare rules, etc., etc., etc. However, the way I see it, the people who complain about things are also the people who voted the people into to the offices that they are complaining about or in some cases they did not vote at all.
You were commenting on the schools. I don't live in your state so I don't know your system. In my state however, the people vote in the school boards so if they really don't like something, they should vote them out; the same with congress, the senate, and all other elected officials. OR, to put it in real terms, if they don't like what is going on in government, they should vote everybody out of congress, the senate and then vote for Bob Barr or Ralph Nader or someone else that is running. My theory is, NEVER reward a behavior you do not wanted repeated. I actually operate on that theory. I'll give you an example, when I was a church organist, my stated requirements included knowing which hymns the preacher wanted to use no later than Thursday. One preacher, ONE TIME, did not get them to me by Thursday so he had no organist that weekend. He called the next week wondering what happened. I reminded him of the requirements and it NEVER happened again. BTW, that theory also works with kids and I am convinced it would work with the politicians also.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Steven Barrett
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 944 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 04:49 am |
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Couldn't agree with you more; but it's just so frustrating to watch people who have nothing to lose playing God with the economic livelihoods of others and you don't have a say in the matter in terms of voting him or her out because you don't live in the town anymore. There is something that's almost feudal in a person's mindset when he and his puppets on a same board can lecture and hector the property taxpayers in that town (our old town that quite sadly we had to leave by "voting with our feet" as a former well-known guv of your state quipped once) for not voting for what would've been an outrageously expensive tax increase.
You don't want to appear selfish about your job, but you also can't help feeling outraged to see a tenured faculty member at a nearby state university who's not going to lose a dime, blame his voters for not going along with him and his buddies while he's still putting the economic screws to the little guy, or gals in this case. But I do have some say in the matter as a federal and state taxpayer: since he's like so many "policy experts" are prone to do nowadays, blame the other layers of government for not giving him the green to be more kindly beneficent with the people's money, while blaming his own townsfolk, we can and do raise hell and hopefully enough people will drive him batty enough not to seek reelection.
Which brings me back to the orig. topic of the thread: questions for Protestants. I can imagine one of them being, what do you do with bishops and priests who act out of line? No greater example can be found in the rousting of the rats who underminned the moral authority of the Church here and elsewhere. Sure, we had to have the help of the media, and some good lawyers, (not the ambulance and television truck chasing sub-species) -- but we weeded them out. Just like the townsfolk of the Rhein River town of Bingen who rousted their bishop who hid in a tower and one night was attacked by, you guessed it, appropriately placed RATS!
Contrast that to the horrifically tyrannical Episcopalian bishop of CT who canned and defrocked (DEFROCKED, NO LESS) six of his priests who wouldn't buy into little gene boy's mis-consecration as an episcopalian bishop. (Oh, by the way, I saw on my ticker earlier that he's legally "reunited" again. Doesn't it just touch your soul? Yeah, with a cattle prod across one's back!) Funny how the Catholic Church with all her reputation for being such a monolithic relic, held together because even her bishops still had a higher authority to answer for misconduct. That bishop in the Hartford diocese just below me is practically untouchable according to ECUSA law.
So, in the name of liberalism, it's the liberals who tighten the ropes to hang the folks they speak so eloquently for. But in the name of responsible conservative stewardship--not to be confused with the libertarian foolishness--that great conservative Catholics like Russell Kirk had no use for, Catholicism still comes out on top--despite all we've done to mangle, maul, undermine and who knows what else to her. If the Borgias, Medicis, and John Geoghans under Cardinal Law couldn't pull her down -- ain't nobody else. Not even this uh, guy out in Cheee cago: Fr. Phleger.
Funny how a little fake of a bishop and wisp of a masculine person prancing in episcopal drag thanks to a total abdication of any moral sense, plus the tyranny of his fellow bishops, could pull down a church in a relative matter of months.
I just hope to hell your old pastor didn't have the insulting gall to replace your skills behind the organ with a "worship team." That would've been strike two, with a brush back pitch tucked in there to send another message. (Yeah, we got'em too. Alas.  )
As for my buddy from Berkeley, well, let's just say on this coming thursday I'd like to be a fly in his house and that of his puppet choice of chairman (who astonishingly enough willingly sacrificed a considerable amount of manhood by hiding behind a "how dare you" column written solely by his wife.
Reagan was right about "voting with your feet." But he was awfully naive in thinking local gov't is best. Having covered hearings, etc. in Washington and in Amherst, I'll take even the worst of the worst times in DC any day! You can throw out elected pols. But try and get rid of tenured profs who use local governments as playthings to try their pet theories on. These parasites are like perpetual leeches! If they don't bleed you white in one cmte, they'll get ya somewhere else, and a lot of them are appointed.
C'mon, there's got to be some little gawdforsaken ville up near Shasta! With some big baaad grizzlies, too. 
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For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 812 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 01:11 pm |
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My impression of an expert is a person who had nothing to do and answered the phone then agreed to go on TV.
People talk about Reagan as a conservative but if you check the record, he had the biggest budget in US history to that time AND he added personnel to the government.
The way to keep the government in a realistic perspective is to get the prepositions straight. When they say they are going to do something for you, ALWAYS read to you!!!
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 944 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 03:01 pm |
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And when they use the excuse of "We're doing it for your kids," lock ' em up, get them out of harm's way and if need be hide them where no "expert" can concoct a way to ever so benevolently bring more "fulfillment" into their lives.
That's our job and eventually their job, with God's grace and guidance. I believe in gov't help and its proper role in helping to maintain social order, through responsible regulations, what have you, but it can never replace those who brought us into the world unless they are so irresponsibly bad that a foster situation is required. But even the most powerful advocates of government's proper role will tell you if they have any brains, that nobody can give our kids what we alone and must make available, and that, my friend, is far too numerously intangible to contain in one thread.
You got Reagan pegged for sure. So whenever you hear those "Reagan conservatives" sing paeans to him and the absolute fiscal necessity of strangulating the Federal government, it's best to grab on to your wallet much tighter because the locals who can't print their money like Reagan was able to, will either tax the daylights out of your communties, or they'll leave them with no options but to privatize them and the vultures will always be hovering for a meal then. That's a guaranteed result of radical Reaganite fiscal conservatism on steroids. A shorter term is "treason through budgetary means." I'd better let you grab a coffee while it's still early out there.
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For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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