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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 857 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 04:59 am |
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Again, having conversations with my brother who has much more of a focus on Israel, he can't figure why Rome is so important. Why not Israel/Jerusalem?
It occurs to me, I think, that since the first century, there is no other city/country which has been as stable as Rome in terms of its suitability as the seat of the authority of the Church.
Jerusalem was long in the hands of Muslims. Though now, wasn't Rome in the hands of barbarians for a time? Northern Europe was populated by barbarians, right? Constantinople, northern Africa, and the Middle East are all now Muslim. Where else could, theoretically, Peter have been 'stationed'? Maybe Athens??
Looking back over 19+ centuries, is it correct to see God's hand keeping Rome uniquely safe for His Church?
Jill
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5457 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 05:11 am |
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For a long time, Rome was stable because it was the seat of the Church. At the collapse of western civilization, the pope became a temporal power rivaling the kings of France, England, and Spain, and the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire headquartered in Germany. Italy did not exist; it was known as the Papal States and was ruled from the Vatican. Today only the Vatican itself remains of the Papal States, which gives the pope the status of a head of state. That's why the pope can meet with presidents and kings as an equal, and has a standing invitation (as do all heads of state) to speak to the United Nations.
The United States has diplomatic relations with the Vatican, and permanent observer status at the U.N.
There were a few occasions when the pope fled Rome, and a time when the papacy was relocated to Avignon, France, but otherwise the pope has always remained headquartered in Rome.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 1185 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 01:59 am |
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No matter how strongly Protestants might protest to the contrary, there had to be some reason why God saw fit that Rome would be the focus of His Church. It's a mystery of faith to most non-Catholics. For us, however, it makes perfect sense, especially for many of the same reasons Cajunrick explained above.
I try not to pick apart God's reasons, especially when the logic of history and plain spiritual common sense speaks so loudly for Rome's ascendant position. Funny how Rome, despite all her sackings, occupations and near decline into a small village, nevertheless managed to hold on to her place whilst Constantinople fell (nobly in brave combat) and the Protestants stole Canterbury.
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"This Old House's" motto is "Measure twice, cut once." My new motto is THINK at least twice or thrice, then you only have to write once, and maybe apologize nonce.
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tedjenczewski
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| Joined: | Thu May 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Richmond, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 306 |
| First Name: | Ted | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Presbyterian, revert Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 02:52 am |
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Rome was recognized as the "first" among the apostolic churches because it was founded by St. Peter (and St. Paul). Peter first founded the church at Antioch, and later went on to Rome and founded the church there from which he was martyred. The church and bishop at Rome have always been recognized as the seat authority of the Catholic Church. This is clearly seen in Clement's letter to the Corinthians (95 AD), St Ignatius Letter to the Romans (110AD) and St. Ireneous book "Agains Heresies" (190 AD) section 210. These documents can be found at http://www.newadvent.org
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"...the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1Tim 3, 15
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BeProf
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| Joined: | Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 87 |
| First Name: | Ed | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Independent Fundamental Baptist - Atheism - Christian & Missionary Alliance |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 05:27 pm |
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Civil Rome was anything but stable. Indeed, much of the authority (temporal authority at least) of the Pope developed because of the insecurity of Rome.
After Constantine moved the capital, things got pretty bad in Rome. Wave after wave of barbarians sacked the city and the the distant Emperor did pretty much nothing to prevent it. There was a great deal of suffering and everybody, naturally, looked to their Pastor to do something about it, and do something about it they did.
Leo the Great, especially, was instrumental in the development of the Papacy as a temporal power. Leo was probably the first Pope that would be recognizable to us as Pope (with most of the titles and rights we associate with that office).
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