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Didi
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 182 |
| First Name: | Didi | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic; almost left; Now an On-Fire Catholic! |
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 05:25 am |
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I have run across this more frequently lately, and I've been wondering what the best way is to respond to people who, once they find out I'm Catholic, say "Oh, I used to be Catholic," or "I grew up Catholic."
I know it depends somewhat on the person and the relationship we have with them, but I'm never sure how to respond.
I want to say "How could you leave Jesus in the Holy Eucharist?" Sometimes I ask why they left. Other times I just say something generic like "Oh, that's nice." But I'm feeling like maybe God has put them in my path for a reason.
How can we use this as an opening to evangelize and invite them back, or can we? 
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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 656 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 11:51 am |
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Didi wrote: How can we use this as an opening to evangelize and invite them back, or can we?
Absolutely. Although it seems easier said than done, no?
When appropriate I would share my joy with the Church and how my heart has been touched by coming into the Catholic faith. If you can make them think just a little about they have been missing, then the seed is planted. You have evangelized to them.
It might also be a good idea to familiarize yourself with different programs you local parishes are offering so you can suggest something to the person you're talking to. Like "You know this Wednesday is such-and-such at 7pm. I'll be there, and I bet you'd really enjoy yourself." LOL and OMG! I actually have used that line as a JW! Who knew that training would come in useful  Seriously, though, maybe you could squeeze in something like that
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1627 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 06:30 pm |
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| I would try to seriously listen to them, and ask, "I'm really curious: why did you feel you had to leave?" That can, oftentimes, lead to a good discussion and opportunity to plant seeds. But we have to truly listen . . .
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 842 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 07:40 pm |
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Depends- if they say it with anykind of indication that they wish they could go back I invite them back- explaining that they should look into a declaration of nllity( usually why those ones left in the first place) and that there are lots of misconceptions about the whole process. So many people today are divorced it is tough.
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kersca
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| Joined: | Fri May 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Adam | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Catholic |
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Posted: Fri May 23rd, 2008 04:28 pm |
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Of course, my firt response to "I used to be Catholic" is one of frustration. I am thinking to myself that this person has a bone to pick with Catholicism (sometimes this is true). Ususally, however, this is more of an excuse for themselves and less of a criticism of the Church. The answer always seemed to be an "I" answer..."I wasn't being fed"... "I saw how kind the people at this other church were"... The first thing I have to realize is that their feelings are valid. They might not be theologically correct, but they are valid. My wife left the Catholic Church initially because she was a single mom at the time and felt she was being judged. Was she being judged? Maybe by one or two people. we see this all the time. People have an ax to grind against all nuns because their first grade teacher was mean to them. Hence, in their feelings all nus are mean. So, how does one argue with that kind of logic. Well, we don't. We pray for them (as I do for my wife). We do our best to use our lives as tools for evangalism by kindness and love. In the end, God will do as He wills.
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 842 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Fri May 23rd, 2008 05:57 pm |
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| Saddest are the ones who say "I used to be Catholic" but my spouse is______ and so we go there, becuase it really is all the same." or the ones who leave because of divorce/remarriage and blame the church for being rigid. Which in fact brings me to people- Catholic or not who blame the church for being inflexible on divorce, contraception and who say that the church should change with the times Last edited on Fri May 23rd, 2008 06:30 pm by Dave Armstrong
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Talithacumi
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 267 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 12:01 am |
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What gets me is the ones who boast that they used to be Catholic, but now they've seen the light and they're doing their best to open the eyes of other Catholics and bring them out of their Hell-bound Church. Unfortunately, it's the ex-Catholics who are the most zealously anti-Catholic. I don't know... I guess they want to prove themselves to their new Protestant friends? Show them that they're worthy of belonging in their church?
How to deal with them? I dunno.... find out what makes them tick, I guess. Get to the heart of what they really dislike about the Catholic Church. 10 to 1 it has to do with some personal sin that they don't want to admit to or they don't want to give up. Then they use the Church as a scapegoat because it's the Church who told them they shouldn't do it (birth control, divorce, abortion, homosexuality... could be anything like that). Not saying they should be judged. I'm only repeating what I've heard from various priests. They should know - they're the ones who get the rap. They're like the cop that puts a guy in jail - the "prisoner" wants to get the cop - or priest, in this case - back for catching him in the act, so to speak (never mind that the guy was at fault to begin with).
But again, we can't judge. Often they only leave the Church because they don't know better. They might have been raised in a very nominal and spiritually indifferent Catholic family. Or they just weren't educated enough and didn't know how to answer when they were bombarded by evangelical proselytizers who tend to attack like wolves - in packs or at least in twos so that the lone Catholic has no support from one of his own and finds it hard to answer the evangelical's questions.
Myself, I was blessed to have grown up in a fairly strong Catholic family and with a lot of support. In my family, even though we didn't really pray together as a family except at mealtimes, we always were free to discuss our faith. On Sundays at the family dinner we'd often - and still do when we get together - discuss the homily that the priest or priests gave (my family members tend to parish-hop, depending on what time we get up  between 3 or 4 different area parishes). We discuss and opine and talk freely and ask each other questions... no qualms about discussing our faith.
But there are those who have not been so blessed. Some people just don't talk about their faith and don't have their family's support. And when they're approached by a pack of evangelists who ask foreign questions - and this goes back to the old thing about Catholics and Protestants speaking different languages - the Catholic is often outnumbered and at a loss. Catholics often don't know how to answer questions that Protestants ask because the Protestants confuse them. They ask questions like, "Are you saved? Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? Have you prayed a sinner's prayer? If you died tonight would you know without a doubt that you're going to heaven?" These types of questions are not in the Catholic's vocabulary and Catholics are at a loss as to how to answer. The Catholic is confused and embarrassed because the interrogators obviously think that the Catholic should know what they're asking. Not only that, but the Protestants ask questions that seem to require short or yes-or-no answers; they're like lawyers sometimes. "Just answer the question: yes or no?" And the Catholic wants to say, "Well, there's a lot to it. It's an involved answer." But the Protestant won't take that as an answer. They want the "simple" answer that the Catholic can't give because the Catholic answer involves 2,000 years of developed doctrine and teaching and the teaching is so vast and rich and deep that it can't possibly be spouted off in one sentence or even a paragraph.
Protestants often don't understand this. Unfortunately, many uneducated Catholics who waver in their understanding succumb to the vibrant fervor and seemingly very knowledgeable-sounding theology of the pack of Protestants who manage to corner them, and so the Catholic caves. Sad, but true.
So, how to respond to an ex-Catholic? First of all, it's safe to assume that 99% of the time they didn't know their faith to begin with. So education is the answer. How to educate them depends so much on the situation and your relationship to them and their attitude. More often than not, they're angry, either because of someone in the Church who hurt them or because they're in sin and deep down they know it but don't want to give it up and so they project it onto the Church, or because they've been made to feel as if the Church duped them somehow or any number of reasons. Often, all you can do is pray, because if you try to engage them in an intellectual discussion it will likely turn into a useless argument because they don't want to hear you and they're not listening. They're only thinking of what kind of comeback they can come up with. It doesn't even have to make a lot of sense. It just has to sound good because it's designed for argument, not dialogue.
If you see the person often and you befriend them, that's the best thing. You can slip in little bits of "education" now and then in a non-threatening way just by casually introducing a topic into the conversation. The trick is, of course, knowing when to let it drop before it gets to the point of argument. Otherwise all you can do is pray for them and love them and be a good example and leave them in God's hands and be there for them when and if they finally decide they're ready to listen.
Sorry, went on a babbling spree - again... pretty bad this time, maybe,   , but I thought it might be helpful to get a lifer's viewpoint. Maybe not, but... maybe...
JMJ
- Cheri
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“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 811 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 09:02 am |
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Dave Armstrong wrote: I would try to seriously listen to them, and ask, "I'm really curious: why did you feel you had to leave?" That can, oftentimes, lead to a good discussion and opportunity to plant seeds. But we have to truly listen . . .
Well ..... Dave, .....I was not aware that you were the psych type! From a human behaviorist point of view, and my opinion (which is even more important), that is exactly the right move. I feel that they made the statement because they had something to say about the situation, or they have someting to say to anyone who will listen, or they are looking for some support for their faith, or, or, or ....
BTW, this is one of the strengths of my priest. (What do you mean I am possessive?) He actually listens to me when I am in Reconciliation and comes back with comments and suggestions relating directly to what I just said. When was the last time someone actually listened to you? At first, it was a little "creepy" but I am used to it now.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1627 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 04:54 pm |
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Hi Cliff,
Well ..... Dave, .....I was not aware that you were the psych type! From a human behaviorist point of view, and my opinion (which is even more important), that is exactly the right move. I feel that they made the statement because they had something to say about the situation, or they have someting to say to anyone who will listen, or they are looking for some support for their faith, or, or, or ....
Actually, I majored in sociology in college and had a minor in psychology (seven courses). But I would say that this approach comes more from my experience in dialoguing and debating all kinds of people for almost 30 years now. It's human nature to always want to be heard by others and to have our opinions valued and not judged right off the bat. If we are to have any constructive dialogue with anyone, we'll have to show an interest in their opinions and feelings: a true, sincere interest, not just a tactic or a means to an end (as in much of sales and marketing).
BTW, this is one of the strengths of my priest. (What do you mean I am possessive?) He actually listens to me when I am in Reconciliation and comes back with comments and suggestions relating directly to what I just said. When was the last time someone actually listened to you? At first, it was a little "creepy" but I am used to it now.
Exactly. It's really just the golden rule. We all like to be listened to; so we simply apply that to others, and it works very well for good human relationships. Once people perceive that a person cares about them and their opinions, then they'll receive criticisms of positions that may eventually come about as dialogue progresses.
Cheri made excellent observations. It's specific to each case, and we have to figure out what exactly is going on in this person we're talking to. Education is the key, but has to occur within a framework of care and true interest.
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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