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danica
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| Joined: | Sun Jan 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | Centurion, Pretoria. , South Africa |
| Posts: | 33 |
| First Name: | Danica-Christine | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Dutch Reformed, Charismatic, AFM. Now Catholic for life! |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 12:20 pm |
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Hello everyone.
I was a life-long Charismatic Protestant, and have a question on the King James version of the Bible, its history, and the history of the life and teachings of King James.
John Salza points out that the K.J.V. of the Bible is a heresy, and I've read in my beloved book, "The Glories of Mary", that St. Alphonsus speaks of this, too, but he didn't go into detail.
My mother owns a N.K.J.V., and she wants to get rid of it, as much as I do, but we need to know exactly why we need to do so.
I, personally, have no love for King James, but don't just want to throw a R300.00 Bible down the dustbin, either, for no good reason. 
We are in the process of publishing a Douay-Rheims Bible; it will be the only Bible that I, and mother, will be reading. 
Thank you, and God bless.
In Jesus & Mary,
Danica-Christine
Last edited on Mon Jan 28th, 2008 12:23 pm by danica
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Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 12:38 pm |
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| Please don't get upset about the King James Version of the Bible. The controversyabout it was that the translation was not done according to more modern and accurate methods, etc. This is yet another tempest in a teapost. Many people still use this version for the glory of its Elizabethan English. Just remember for serious Bible study you should use the version that is officially approved by your local bishops.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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kimdyuma
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 841 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 12:57 pm |
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| While I no longer read them I am keeping the two family bibles that are indee King James- they are over 100 and 200 years respectively- but one was my granfathers and he read it with me so I keep it for that , the other is the family bible and the pictures in it are amazing. We have newer paper back bibles that the kids got from every Sunday school teacher they ever had, plus various new translations. I will be getting rid of those.. you can buy bibles on amazon- used but in good shape. We have bought them for the kids' theology class.
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Traveler
Member
| Joined: | Fri Jun 8th, 2007 |
| Location: | Prairie Du Chien, Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 19 |
| First Name: | Jean | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | North American Baptist, Evangelical Free |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 02:14 pm |
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I find this interesting. As a Protestant I know the Catholic bible had some additional books and passages, however I did not know there were accepted/preferred translations. I am interested in knowing which are the approved translations and just a high level overview of why.
Thanks,
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Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 02:38 pm |
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Traveler,
You can read or study any version of the Bible you want to but for liturgical use, in the US only the New American Bible is approved. That is why the Liturgy of the Hours books use it alone because those are the official prayer books for priests and consecrated religious. The NAB has shortcomings, which are gone into very well in detail in the periodical First Things among other places and you can look up internet resources for this I am sure (beware the internet, anybody can publish anything with fake references).
The smarty pants attitude is that it is the only one approved in the US because it is owned by the USCCB but I would not go that far. I think it was convenient and they knew the translation well, even though it doesn't have the accuracy or the beauty or plangency of some others. For serious study most people use the Catholic version of the Revised Standard but that also has shortcomings. Oh, I get it, all translations have shortcomings!
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Annie
Ora et labora
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kimdyuma
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 841 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 02:46 pm |
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| also of course the Protestant Bibles don't have all the books in them so for study purposes they are incomplete, which is why we needed to get new bibles....
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Intercessor
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| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1233 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 06:34 pm |
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I like having many different translations handy. Often when I'm on the phone with someone, discussing a certain passage, we'll each have three or four different translations in front of us, while also sitting in front of computers logged in to appropriate websites.
Especially after one becomes extremely familiar with a passage, it helps to switch to a different translation to get a fresh look at the ideas. I have a Parallel Bible including eight different translations/versions of the New Testament. That's handy for Bible study preparations.
I think my favorite "paperback" version is the J.B. Phillips The New Testament in Modern English.
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"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1644 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 06:49 pm |
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It is improper to speak of the King James Bible as a "heresy." Like all Protestant Bibles (and Catholic ones) it has somewhat of a bias, based on the beliefs of the translators, but not overly so, in my opinion.
I myself use the RSV, which is a revision of the KJV (taking out the archaic language: thees and thous, etc.). I used to use NASB as a Protestant (which revised the American Standard Version, which revised KJV, into more "American" English), and first read most of the Bible in that version. The Catholic version of the RSV actually modifies very few passages: I think it is only 4-6, if that many. One of them is Luke 1:28: "Hail Mary, full of grace." That shows how little bias is perceived to be in the RSV, and by indirect implication, the RSV.
The thing about the KJV is the beautiful language and expression (who could not love, e.g., Psalm 23?). But, by and large, Protestant Bibles are not a problem, as much as false Protestant doctrines. I would concentrate more on those, and not the Bible translations, which can be criticized, for sure, but are not at the heart of Protestant-Catholic differences, by any means.
If you read the Douay-Rheims, be aware that it is a translation of a translation, too: of the Latin Vulgate, whereas most translationas today, including newer Catholic ones, translate from the oldest available Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.
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kimdyuma
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 841 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 07:17 pm |
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| I should have been more specific in my letters- I didn't quit reading the KJV or any other Protestant Bible becuase I thought that they were heretical- but the kids needed the specific Bibles for their Catholic school theology so I started using thier old sunday school ones which were paper back so that our "good ones" didn't get wrecked. I abandoned them as soon as I started studing the Catholic Home study course on the Bible and needed to refer to the missing books... I still to this day love the KJV since it, like the 1928 Anglican Rite is in the language of my childhood.
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1644 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 07:34 pm |
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Hi Jean,
You wrote:
I am interested in knowing which are the approved translations and just a high level overview of why.
I suspect that most of the bishops of the Church (and the Holy Father) would rejoice that Catholics are reading the Scripture, whatever the version is. The main thing is to read the Bible. But there are "approved" versions, such as the NAB (personally I care very little for its style), and the RSV-Catholic edition. I have found many articles that discuss these issues or related ones:
Bible Translations Guide (Catholic Answers)
Choosing and Using a Bible: What Catholics Should Know, Fr. Ronald D. Witherup, Catholic Update, July 2004.
Choosing a Bible Translation, Jimmy Akin, This Rock, April 1994.
Bible Translations, Jimmy Akin.
Bible Versions and Commentaries (EWTN: Colin B. Donovan, STL)
Bible Translations (EWTN: Matthew Bunson)
Finding a Translation: How to Select a Catholic Bible, John Osman, Catholic Spirit, January 2007.
Choosing a Bible Translation, Katerina Ivanovna (Evangelical Catholicism site)
Are All Bible Translations Created Equal?: The Protestant Bias of the NIV, Steve Ray [this is a .doc file]
Which Bible Translations Are Best For Catholics? (Catholics United for the Faith)
Choosing a Catholic Bible (Adoremus Bulletin)
Uncomfortable Facts about the Douay-Rheims, Jimmy Akin, This Rock, February 2002.
Pius XII on the Authenticity of the Vulgate, Jimmy Akin, April 1994.
English Translations of the Bible, Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D.
Catholic Encyclopedia: Versions of the Bible [note: much of the article is about non-English versions, but there is a lot about the English ones, too]
Catholic Encyclopedia: Douay Bible
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5350 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2008 11:54 pm |
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Traveler wrote: I am interested in knowing which are the approved translations and just a high level overview of why.
The best translation is the one you will read and use.
Having said that, the Catholic Church approves certain versions for use in the liturgy. In the United States, the New American Bible is the only approved version, but the approved version is not the one you'll find on the bookshelf. It is modified at Vatican insistence to remove some inclusive language and some other things which the Vatican found inaccurate.
Other versions which have been approved for liturgical use in other English speaking countries since Vatican II include the Jerusalem Bible, the RSV-CE, and the NRSV. Of course, only versions which include all of the deuterocanonicals are acceptable.
The original King James included the so-called apocrypha. (Most Protestants don't know that!) The additional books were later removed as the Anglican church became more in line with Protestant thinking. The KJV with apocrypha is available online and from E-Sword. My objection to the KJV is that the language used is the same version of English used by William Shakespear, and I have trouble understanding it. Language changes. After all, only 50 years ago "gay" meant joyful. Imagine the difference in language 400 years can make! But that's my personal preference. Many consider the KJV and the Douay-Rheims "poetic", while I consider them archaic.
For group use, you should best use the version the rest of the group is using, and if the group is Catholic it will most likely be the NAB. For personal use, I repeat my first statement: the best translation is the one you will read and use.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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danica
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jan 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | Centurion, Pretoria. , South Africa |
| Posts: | 33 |
| First Name: | Danica-Christine | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Dutch Reformed, Charismatic, AFM. Now Catholic for life! |
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 07:35 am |
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Thank you all for your help. If you'd like to read this lawyer's site: http://www.scripturecatholic.com
He talks about why what Bible. As well as the Douay-Rheims official site has an entire documentary on what Bible to read; the history of each Bible, etc.
Douay-Rheims:
http://www.drbo.org/index.htm
What Bible Shoul You Read - Documentary: I uploaded it onto Send Space.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/erdde2
God bless.
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