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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
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| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 06:42 pm |
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Have you noticed in your home parishes a tread towards mantillas? One young woman always wears one but I noticed a young family with 3 young kids, the wife and two preschool girls were wearing cover- the wife a mantilla and the little girls small lacy round caps along with dress shoes and nice little sundresses. I noticed that the husband wore a shortcropped but full beard- similar to some of the young Orthodox Jews or mennonite men. They looked nice, a little different from the sloppy t shirt crowd or the skimpy spagettie strap set.
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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 02:08 pm |
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No. I would like to try it, but I'm nervous about how it would be perceived. Which is weird, I usually don't worry about what people think, lol. I keep meaning to ask a couple older ladies about head coverings, but I always forget. {makes mental note}
Do you wear one?
And don't get me started on that other crowd! 
Ali
Last edited on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 02:09 pm by Ali
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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 849 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 02:34 pm |
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no I don't - that would be a shock to the family- but it is nice to see and part of me would like to- we wore hats in church as a kid
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Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 03:29 pm |
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At my parish many wear mantillas. I wish I could but I would feel weird. Maybe some day. I do dress down, lest somebody come in off the street and see EVERYBODY in suits and ties and nice dresses and shiny shoes. We are in an industrial part of town and nobody actually lives in the parish, there is a homeless shelter down the street and we have an armed cop in the narthex. I will ask the priest about this though. Maybe he will tell me to dress up a little. 
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 04:42 pm |
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I have pretty much given up on this topic as a dead horse. There must be a reason we are reluctant to take this custom up again, I think we should trust our gut feelings about it!
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Ali
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| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 05:23 pm |
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Credo Catholic wrote: I have pretty much given up on this topic as a dead horse. And yet Rick refused to give us the dead horse smiley. Ya know, we really could use that!
Credo Catholic wrote:
There must be a reason we are reluctant to take this custom up again, I think we should trust our gut feelings about it! Really? My gut feeling is embarrassment, LOL. What is other people's?
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Dave Armstrong
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| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
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| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 07:23 pm |
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Not many in my parish do, which is a bit strange, since we are very liturgically traditional (have always had Latin Mass, receive at an altar rail, haven't "raped" our traditional 1873 architectural gems: statues, wood carvings, ornate altar, etc.).
I don't have feelings about it one way or another. If someone wants to do it, great, as long as it isn't made some legalistic thing, or the perception arises that the ones doing it are somehow more devout than those who don't. If the Church wanted it to be a requirement, then it would have been made clear. But it hasn't, so no one should make it a "criterion" of superior piety in the one who chooses to do this.
That is my main concern, not whether to do it or not . . .
I also hasten to add that those of us who don't wear the head covering should also not assume in uncharity that one who does is being prideful or "holier-than-thou" -- if they have not given us any reason otherwise to suspect so. It's an honored custom and should be regarded as such. But it is optional, according to the Church.
Last edited on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 07:27 pm by Dave Armstrong
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 228 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 01:51 am |
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Ali wrote: Credo Catholic wrote:
I think we should trust our gut feelings about it! Really? My gut feeling is embarrassment, LOL. What is other people's?
Ever since the Mormons came knocking on my door suggesting that I should pray for Divine indigestion (a burning in the bosom was how they phrased it) I have been wary of trusting my "gut", be aware of it but not trust it implicitly. Rather I use my head to either verify or disprove the leadings of the "gut". My head sides with Dave above.
Just my 3 cents worth (allowing for the exchange rate with the $US)
Regards Doc
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beachmoss
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Simpsonville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 04:24 am |
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Yes, I wear one. There is only one other regular at my mass time that wears one also. But at the parish that I used to belong to many ladies wore them. That is where I began wearing one.
I started with wearing hats. But soon I moved to a chapel cap then a regular mantilla. Also, and I know this sounds weird, but I was more self-conscious of the priest wondering why I started wearing a head covering; and as we were in a transition, I waited until we got a new priest so he didn't know I had just begun.
At the Latin masses I've attended all the women and girls wore head coverings. My 8-year-old was asking last week when she can begin wearing one. I told her after she makes her First Holy Communion, which is in 1.5 weeks.
Beth
P.S. More thoughts on this later.
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leofff
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| Joined: | Fri Apr 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Canada |
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| First Name: | Leo | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Religiopath |
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 01:16 pm |
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Also, and I know this sounds weird, but I was more self-conscious of the priest wondering why I started wearing a head covering
As a man who has known many priest, I can assure you that he has other things to think about. Most of these men work 12-16 hour days - the piety of his parishioners usually ranks towards the bottom of this list of things to worry about.
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http://leosfootblog.blogspot.com/
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hpj0828
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| Joined: | Sun Apr 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 144 |
| First Name: | Henry | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Messianic Jewish believer, Hebrew Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 05:59 pm |
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Jewish men pray with their heads covered in the synagogue. They wear skull caps called yarmulkes in yiddish, kippahs in Hebrew. In addition to these, Jewish men pray underneath a tallit or prayer shawl.
The RC bishop wears a mitre, as did the ancient Hebrew high priest (See Scripture passages below.)
So, both Jewish and RC men pray with their heads covered. Then why does the Apostle Paul seem to prohibit this practice in 1 Corinthians 11:4?
I wonder if anyone can help me with this question?
I Cor. 11:1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.
2 Now I praise you because you remember me in everything, and hold
firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.
3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man,
and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
4 EVERY MAN WHO HAS SOMETHING ON HIS HEAD WHILE PRAYING OR PROPHESYING, DISGRACES HIS HEAD.
5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or
prophesying, disgraces her head; for she is one and the same with her
whose head is shaved.
6 For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair
cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut
off or her head shaved, let her cover her head.
7 FOR A MAN OUGHT NOT TO HAVE HIS HEAD COVERED, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
9 for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for
the man's sake.
10 Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her
head, because of the angels.
Yet:
Ex 28:3 NAS "And you shall speak to all the skillful persons whom I
have endowed with the spirit of wisdom, that they make Aaron's
garments to consecrate him, that he may minister as priest to Me.
4 "And these are the garments which they shall make: a breastpiece
and an ephod and a robe and a tunic of checkered work, a TURBAN and a
sash, and they shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother and
his sons, that he may minister as priest to Me.
Lev. 21:10 NAS `And the priest who is the highest among his
brothers, on whose head the anointing oil has been poured, and who
has been consecrated to wear the garments, SHALL NOT UNCOVER HIS
HEAD, nor tear his clothes;
Lev. 21:10 Septuagint English tr Brenton.
And the priest that is chief among his brethren, the oil having been
poured upon the head of the anointed one, and he having been
consecrated to put on the garments, SHALL NOT TAKE THE MITRE OFF HIS HEAD, and shall not rend his garments:
In the synagogue today, men use kippahs and prayer shawls.
At the time of Jesus, the prayer shawl seemed to be in use. (cf. Lk
8).
The high priest wore a turban when he represented Israel before God
in his prayers and supplications.
So, what does Paul mean by the prohibition in I Co. 11:4?
Are we supposed to observe this prohibition today and discard our
prayer shawls and kippahs? Should the bishop discard his mitre? The Cardinal his skull cap?
Henry
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HPJ
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 08:22 pm |
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hpj0828 wrote: Jewish men pray with their heads covered in the synagogue. They wear skull caps called yarmulkes in yiddish, kippahs in Hebrew. In addition to these, Jewish men pray underneath a tallit or prayer shawl.
The RC bishop wears a mitre, as did the ancient Hebrew high priest (See Scripture passages below.)
So, both Jewish and RC men pray with their heads covered. Then why does the Apostle Paul seem to prohibit this practice in 1 Corinthians 11:4?
Actually, any cleric can wear a skull cap, called a zucchetto. EWTN has an interesting article on the history of the zucchetto at http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/zucchetto.htm .
I don't think it's correct to call a skull cap a "head covering" as a prayer shawl would be. I also think it's a little different to think of praying in the daytime in Israel (which would have been more typical in Paul's day) and in the middle of a cold winter night in northern Europe in an unheated monastery!
Last edited on Fri Apr 11th, 2008 08:37 pm by CajunRick
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Rick Luquette
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sat Apr 12th, 2008 02:38 am |
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Both Jewish and RC men pray with their heads covered. Then why does the Apostle Paul seem to prohibit this practice in 1 Corinthians 11:4?
It occurs to me, Henry (and I say this without any real assurance other than that it seems reasonable), that this is a difference between Jews and Gentiles. If the Gentiles in Corinth had a tradition that echewed headcoverings for men when presenting themselves before the Lord, while the Jews had a opposing tradition, it could be that Paul saw no difficulty with either one and was simply applying the local custom.
David
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