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EMarshallBuckles
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 04:01 am |
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As I have shared, my brother Martin is a Roman Catholic and member of St. Anne's Catholic Church in Bristol, Virginia. He had decided to give up chocolate for Lent. My sister tells me that this past Friday, he brought home Long John Silver's fish dinners for her, our mother and himself. However, and I am sure that His Holiness the Pope would have been SHOCKED  , Martin also brought home some FUDGE PIE for them to eat for dessert! Tsk, tsk!  So, Martin went to St. Anne's for confession today (as well he should). When he got home, this evening Mom and my sister sat down to watch TV. Martin said that he could not watch TV for an hour and would be in his room saying his Rosary. They asked why and Martin told them that he had told the Priest about the fudge pie. Martin said that the Priest told him that he did NOT have to give up chocolate for Lent, BUT that he DID have to ABSTAIN FROM TV for one hour each night and say the Rosary! I was curious why the Priest would have released Martin from his decision to give up chocolate for Lent and substituted abstaining from TV for one hour each night. I am guessing that the Priest must have felt that an hour saying the rosary would be better for Martin than giving up chocolate which would be a bigger temptation for him. Would that be likely?
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EMarshallBuckles
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 04:07 am |
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| Also, did I sin against my brother by being greatly amused when I learned about the above matter and sharing it with you? Should I do some sort of penitent act myself? Last edited on Sun Feb 10th, 2008 04:08 am by EMarshallBuckles
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 12:09 pm |
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Marshall, I am as amused as you over this story, because we all do the same thing in one way or another. However, there are some lessons to be learned in it. I will point out only a couple of them, but in so doing you will perhaps see how one can probe further and learn more.
The first thing I see is that your brother has a liking for chocolate, and that his failure to honor a commitment to abstain from it shows a certain weakness. However, in our culture, addiction to television and neglect of prayer are far more important failings than our food preferences. In fact, without the habit of self denial in more substantial things — things much more pertinent to our walk with God — any talk of “dieting” for Lent, especially with regard to such superfluities as chocolate, is simply out of place. So I think the priest was right in redirecting your brother’s attention to “what enters the soul” via television as versus “what enters the body” through sweets.
Secondly, I mentioned the neglect of prayer. Prayer is the fundamental act of religion. People talk of sacrifice, and indeed this is important, but we must offer it in and through prayer or whatever sacrifice we offer will be of no value. In fact, St. Alphonsus de Liguori has written that he who prays will be saved, while he who does not pray cannot be saved, simply because our salvation is a matter of our relationship to the God who created us, loves us, watches over us and wants us to be near him for all eternity.
Prayer is a manifestation of love. If it is not, then what St. Paul says applies: “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:1–2). What it comes down to is this: Love God, love your neighbor. For Christianity is a religion, not of knowledge, but of love. Prayer is the vital link in both fundamental commandments, to the extent that we cannot accomplish either without it, any more than we can be forgiven our sins without prayer.
Now you ask: “Did I sin against my brother by being greatly amused when I learned about the above matter and sharing it with you? Should I do some sort of penitent act myself?” I think this is a learning moment, Marshall, not a matter of sin. You are beginning to be aware of what must go into the Christian life from your end if you would be a beneficiary of God’s offer of salvation.
Should you do penance? Well, have you sinned? Do you need to be right with God? And if Catholics, Orthodox and some other Christians have set aside a season for penitence, do you see this as appropriate? How do you think it best to respond?
David
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EMarshallBuckles
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 09:48 pm |
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| Well, of course, as I mentioned in another thread, I know what the Protestant response would be. I am simply better learning how my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters view and deal with these matters. So, I would guess that God would not feel that I was sinful for having the natural reaction of being amused by my brother's situation (one in which I would probably "fall short of the mark" if I was in the same situation, ha, ha). If I humiliated my brother and made rude remarks about him, instead of viewing him with a very affectionate, gentle humor as I did, I would sin against him and God. I guess the same would be true if I gave CajunRick the "raspberries" and whooped it up, in a negative, humiliating manner because the University of Tennessee "Volunteers" men's basketball team beat the LSU "Tiger" basketball team this past Saturday night. I should, instead, offer CajunRick my sympathies, encouraging him that while LSU was not able to beat Tennessee, that they will no doubt go on to win other games! I could also cheer him up by showing him a nice picture of a cute doggie! Attachment: smokeyIX-150.jpg (Downloaded 139 times)
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 10:09 pm |
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EMarshallBuckles wrote: I guess the same would be true if I gave CajunRick the "raspberries" and whooped it up, in a negative, humiliating manner because the University of Tennessee "Volunteers" men's basketball team beat the LSU "Tiger" basketball team this past Saturday night. I should, instead, offer CajunRick my sympathies, encouraging him that while LSU was not able to beat Tennessee, that they will no doubt go on to win other games! I could also cheer him up by showing him a nice picture of a cute doggie!
I guess since LSU fired the head coach this week, you would not be alone in making fun of the LSU basketball team. Let's see how baseball season goes.
And here's what Mike the Tiger thinks of your puppy:
Attachment: mike-the-tiger.jpg (Downloaded 141 times)
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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EMarshallBuckles
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 11:21 pm |
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 EEK! "Mike" looks HUNGRY!!! Hope he has given up red meat for Lent!!! Wonder if they gave the ex-Head Coach the option of leaving or of being lunch for Mike?!
See attached picture for representation of UT student trying to get away from Mike!
Attachment: TennFlag.jpg (Downloaded 136 times)
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 11:41 pm |
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EMarshallBuckles wrote: EEK! "Mike" looks HUNGRY!!!
He's yawning.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 12:41 am |
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Back to the topic ....... one should NEVER give up chocolate. Chocolate comes from beans and beans are a near perfect protein and therefore healthy. So obviously, chocolate should be a part of everyone's diet, providing, of course, they are not allergic to it .... in which case you should give up the allergy for Lent and not the chocolate!!! 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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wwjd
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 01:28 am |
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I made the mistake of giving up candy (which, of course, includes chocolate) for lent completely forgetting that Valentine's Day is this week! I somewhat jokingly asked a deacon (and leader of our RCIA) if I am allowed to renig on what I choose to give up for Lent. Oh well.....at least I didn't give up cookies as our girl scout cookies were delivered this evening!!
My RCIA sponsor shared with me last year that our Priest told her to consider devoting more time to prayer or reading the Bible instead of "giving up" something for lent. However, reading the Bible, praying more often or saying the rosary shouldn't really be considered a penance, should it?
Trish
Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 01:29 am by wwjd
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:24 am |
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Reading the Bible, praying more often or saying the rosary shouldn't really be considered a penance, should it?
Consider it preventive maintenance.
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:42 am |
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Good one David. I like that.
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:48 am |
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| WWJD, instead of giving up something, I decided this year to do something I need to do or do more of something I do. The something that I plan to do ..... no ..... that I AM GOING TO DO is attend Adoration more. In fact, I have that activity in RED ink on Fridays, in my appointment book. Now, all I need to do is forget the "reasons" why I can't make it on a particular day.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:59 am |
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wwjd wrote: However, reading the Bible, praying more often or saying the rosary shouldn't really be considered a penance, should it?
My pastor had a really good homily this week. He tied our Lenten practices to Jesus' 40 days in the desert.
Did Jesus need to do penance for his sins? Of course not. Then why did he fast? The answer is that he was preparing himself spiritually for his public ministry.
Lent originally was a 40 day fast in preparation for baptism by the catechumens. Previously baptized Christians fasted in preparation for the renewal of their baptismal promises on Easter Sunday. It is still called the Great Fast in the Eastern Churches. It is not a time of penance; we should do penance all the time. It is a time of preparation. We don't fast in penance for Good Friday; we fast as purification for Easter Sunday!
My bishop spoke at our church the Sunday before Lent, and he said we shouldn't give up anything that will not cause us to change. Lent represents a time of repentance and conversion, not meaningless sacrifice. Is giving up chocolate going to change us into someone better? On Easter Sunday will we renew your baptismal promises purified because we didn't eat chocolate for six weeks?
As Catholic children, we were told to give something up for Lent because it's really all our childish minds can understand. As adults we should practice a more mature faith. We should seek improvement in our lives, not a "sacrifice" that isn't a sacrifice at all. Now giving up smoking or making some other life-changing self-improvement is a different matter. We can use Lent as our motivation to begin, but if we are really going to change, we don't stop on Easter Sunday. We use Lent as the start of a new life free from that crutch, whatever it might be.
My bishop suggested taking the eight Beatitudes and taking one each year. The first is "Blessed are the peacemakers". How can I become a better peacemaker? Spend Lent turning myself into a peaceful person, and on Easter Sunday I will be a better Christian to carry the gospel forward to the world. At the end of eight years, imagine how much better our spiritual lives would be!
So don't beat yourself up over whether you "gave up" something or whether you can cheat. Don't worry about a Lenten "penance". Think about whether you will be a better Christian on Easter Sunday than you were on Ash Wednesday. If you are, you had a successful Lent.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Prayerie Pal
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 04:50 pm |
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So don't beat yourself up over whether you "gave up" something or whether you can cheat. Don't worry about a Lenten "penance". Think about whether you will be a better Christian on Easter Sunday than you were on Ash Wednesday. If you are, you had a successful Lent.
This is why Caj is a genius and why we're so blessed to have him with us and why I ask myself, WWCRD?
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God gave us memory so we could have roses in winter.
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wwjd
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:20 pm |
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Prayerie Pal wrote: This is why Caj is a genius and why we're so blessed to have him with us and why I ask myself, WWCRD?
LOL! Yes, we are definitely blessed! I guess I'm showing my ignorance as all my Catholic friends "give up" something for Lent. However, CajunRick you have made a very valid point! No wonder I felt like all my "sacrifices" during Lent seemed so lame. I will definitely look at Lent in a whole new light next year!
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MichaelStEdmund
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 12:53 pm |
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Tremendous advice and comments on this, CajunRick. Much appreciated.
As part of my Lenten "fast," I decided to take some money that otherwise would be spent on books or gadgets and send it to Aid to the Church in Need (http://www.aidtothechurchinneed.org/). Aid to the Church in Need is a great cause, and I heard recently that they only keep 6% of what they receive for administrative costs.
CajunRick wrote:
wwjd wrote: However, reading the Bible, praying more often or saying the rosary shouldn't really be considered a penance, should it?
My pastor had a really good homily this week. He tied our Lenten practices to Jesus' 40 days in the desert.
Did Jesus need to do penance for his sins? Of course not. Then why did he fast? The answer is that he was preparing himself spiritually for his public ministry.
Lent originally was a 40 day fast in preparation for baptism by the catechumens. Previously baptized Christians fasted in preparation for the renewal of their baptismal promises on Easter Sunday. It is still called the Great Fast in the Eastern Churches. It is not a time of penance; we should do penance all the time. It is a time of preparation. We don't fast in penance for Good Friday; we fast as purification for Easter Sunday!
My bishop spoke at our church the Sunday before Lent, and he said we shouldn't give up anything that will not cause us to change. Lent represents a time of repentance and conversion, not meaningless sacrifice. Is giving up chocolate going to change us into someone better? On Easter Sunday will we renew your baptismal promises purified because we didn't eat chocolate for six weeks?
As Catholic children, we were told to give something up for Lent because it's really all our childish minds can understand. As adults we should practice a more mature faith. We should seek improvement in our lives, not a "sacrifice" that isn't a sacrifice at all. Now giving up smoking or making some other life-changing self-improvement is a different matter. We can use Lent as our motivation to begin, but if we are really going to change, we don't stop on Easter Sunday. We use Lent as the start of a new life free from that crutch, whatever it might be.
My bishop suggested taking the eight Beatitudes and taking one each year. The first is "Blessed are the peacemakers". How can I become a better peacemaker? Spend Lent turning myself into a peaceful person, and on Easter Sunday I will be a better Christian to carry the gospel forward to the world. At the end of eight years, imagine how much better our spiritual lives would be!
So don't beat yourself up over whether you "gave up" something or whether you can cheat. Don't worry about a Lenten "penance". Think about whether you will be a better Christian on Easter Sunday than you were on Ash Wednesday. If you are, you had a successful Lent.
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"Faith seeking understanding" - St. Anselm of Canterbury.
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ASimpleSinner
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 01:17 pm |
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wwjd wrote: However, reading the Bible, praying more often or saying the rosary shouldn't really be considered a penance, should it?
Trish
I hope one would not consider such act penitential (as in punishing) in and of themselves! It is worth considering though, thatwhen such is assigned as penance it does have a "preventative" measure as noted, as well as repairative aspects...
Also it used to be more common for judges to give 16 & 17 year old juvenile offenders the opportunity to go into the military to get discipline and direction instead of the penal system. Think of it as similar.
And I dunno about you, but I don't pray the Rosary or read the Bible with TV on! While doing a good thing, it is hard to be doing something not so good.
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MichaelStEdmund
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 03:37 pm |
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ASimpleSinner wrote:
And I dunno about you, but I don't pray the Rosary or read the Bible with TV on! While doing a good thing, it is hard to be doing something not so good.
Be careful about having the Rosary on the radio when you're warming up the car too! Every morning when I go to work, I let the car warm up with the Rosary playing inside ('cause the car needs it on these dangerous winter roads as much as I do!), then I pray along with the broadcast as I try to avoid being one of the people in the ditch. This morning after scraping off the snow and ice, I opened the door to toss in the brush and heard Fr. Groeschel say, "Do not look for Him here, for He is risen!" It shocked me for just a moment, and then I broke up laughing.Last edited on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 03:40 pm by MichaelStEdmund
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lakeview
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Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2008 02:45 am |
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A couple of years ago I went to confession outside mt parish during Lent. I was thinking then of the idea of not giving something up for Lent but doing something more in my faith. The priest asked me how my prayer life was. Then he wanted to know what I was doing for Lent. After I told him, he pointed out that while it was fine to add things, there was a spiritual benefit to fasting that other practices can't offer. It comes from giving what you're fasting from to the Lord. It was a challeging reminder that I still need to learn!
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Brian
http://denythecat.blogspot.com
http://latevocationsrc.blogspot.com
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brian
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Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2008 03:56 am |
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| I agree that it is more about growing in some way as opposed to abstaining from certin foods, but I do think abstaining reminds you why you are doing things, and I also think that gaining self control in areas that are not necessarily sinful like candy or meat, can help one gain control of His will in other areas. As we deny the fleash we hopefully gain self control over other passions. But of course, without prayer or proper motivations all is prety much lost. I hope that I do things for the right reasons and in the right spirit.
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Free
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Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2008 10:44 am |
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As I shared in an earlier thread, what the Lord asked of me this Lent was to pray for 14 of my friends who have fallen away from the Catholic Church. Most of them are attending Protestant churches, and two aren't going to church at all. Every day as I pray the Rosary, my intentions are for these friends.
This week the opportunities arose to talk about the Catholic faith with two of them, and yesterday a third one called and said she'd like to go to Mass with me last evening. We attended Mass together, and then went for dinner and had a good, long conversation, in which she said she really misses the cross, since the non-denomination church she's attending does not display the cross, and even though she occasionally receives communion, she really misses the Eucharist.
Rejoice with me! I'm so glad she misses the Pearl of Great Price!
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Intercessor
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Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2008 01:04 pm |
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[size=Free wrote:
This week the opportunities arose to talk about the Catholic faith with two of them, and yesterday a third one called and said she'd like to go to Mass with me last evening. We attended Mass together, and then went for dinner and had a good, long conversation, in which she said she really misses the cross, since the non-denomination church she's attending does not display the cross, and even though she occasionally receives communion, she really misses the Eucharist.
Rejoice with me! I'm so glad she misses the Pearl of Great Price!
Jane, I do rejoice with you! Praise God!
Becky]
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"He who will persevere unto the end is not he who will never fall, but he who after every fall will humble himself and rise again, relying on the infinite strength of God." Divine Intimacy, p. 885 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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Connie
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Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 03:12 am |
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Dear Marshall:
You know why? Because Priests are men, human beings, and they all are very good at telling people different things. That's what I think, and that's what I've heard from fellow Catholics in my church. Remember the days when a Priest would tell a person to say 100 Hail Mary's to atone for their sins? Ridiculous! I totally can understand why Protestants don't feel the need to go to Confession, when hearing such absurd things.
I think as Catholics, we also need to use our God-given reason and common sense here. The Priest can absolve us, yes, but if they tell us to go run around naked on Sunday night for one hour, would we? We need to use our brains. They are not God.
It's my view, I see a Priest to absolve me for my sins, as an instrument of God, not to take his advice on what to do, or how I should live my life. This is between me and God, and the Catholic Faith.
Once when in Confession, a Priest told me point blank, "you don't need to be absolved, you need to make an appt. with me in my office, here's my card, come in for some counseling. Personally, I think he was hitting on me big time. He never absolved me. And yes, that's what they're supposed to do.
I'm not sure what The Church says about giving up chocolate for Lent, or giving up anything in particular except meat, I feel that's a personal choice between us and God. If your relative agreed to give up an hour of TV and say the Rosary instead, that's great, but I shudder to think of all else Priests might be telling people to do and they blindly do it. See my point?
____________________
~Connie~
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EMarshallBuckles
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Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 03:56 am |
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| Well, as for a priest telling us to run around naked on a Saturday night, some of the guys around here might be likely to do that, ha, ha!! Sorry, couldn't resist! Just kidding with them if they read this! Anyway, yes, I understand what you are saying. Some people, both clergy and laity, have at times, sadly speaking, gone away from the intent of things like confessions and gone off on a path which they should not follow. Just before coming online here, on my ISP news report section, I saw a story about how the Minister of a Protestant church in Florida had strongly urged his married members to, um, uh, well, engage in marital relations ("hanky panky", he called it) EVERY night of EVERY month! What that has to do with his congregations' spiritual welfare is highly questionable to me. While I continue to leave open wide the door, so to speak, that the Catholic Church is THE true church, I think that in any denomination, one has to be careful about who one follows as one's spiritual guide, as one's spiritual leader. One reason I ended up here, investigating the Catholic faith (or the Catholic part of Christianity) is because my Baptist Pastor, whom I had previously respected, kicked me off a committee because I had dared to ask for our church to maintain a balance between the Southern Baptist Convention and the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (between the conservatives and more liberals | | |
