| Author | Post |
|---|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 799 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 12th, 2008 09:18 am |
|
Anyone have a good recommendation for where to buy this? I really think that I would like using it at least partially everyday. Sems to help direct your prayer life and give a lot of other good material. I saw some copies on amazon for like $140. Are there any lesser quality versions to stay away from? Should I try to buy one volume at a time? At amazon if I apply for a credit card I save 30 dollars and it will only be 110.
I kind of wanted to buy a few for other people but maybe might have to share or something cause I do not want to buy too many at once.
I thought of buying people the condensed book that only has monrning adn evening prayers, yet I just hate to make people miss out on some of the wonderful readings and hymns. Any recommendations as to where to buy and anything else?
Brian
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2034 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 12th, 2008 12:10 pm |
|
Brian, check out the one volume edition of the Liturgy of the Hours more closely. It’s called Christian Prayer. The big 4-volume edition contains a fuller rendition of the Office of Readings (this is what makes it so bulky) and is meant primarily for monastic use. The 1-volume edition contains the melodies for the songs/hymns and is geared to those living in the world. I think the latter would appeal more to you, at least to begin with, and it’s much less expensive.
It also makes sense to use the smaller one for a prayer group (evidently your purpose) because it’s less daunting. You have no idea how overwhelming a set of volumes can be for prayer use — far more so than a set of books for scholarly purposes. The idea of meditative prayer is to let the words penetrate your being. This is impossible for busy people in the world unless one keeps the number of words to a manageable level. Quality, not quantity, is always preferable in prayer, so that one does not “rattle on” like the Pharisees. (Monastics, of course, are in a different situation. They can handle the longer set because this is what they do.)
Whichever one you select, remember that you will need a Guide booklet, which shows you which prayers to use each day. Your Liturgy of the Hours set or Christian Prayer book will come with one of these booklets, but it may be for last year. These booklets should be available from the same place you buy the book(s). You will need to buy one each year.
Where to buy? Many Catholic bookstores (brick and mortar or online) carry them. Prices will vary slightly. Christian Prayer comes in two bindings, hardback and flex plastic; Liturgy of the Hours is available in flex plastic or leather. The former is also available in a large type edition.
David
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1359 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 12th, 2008 01:41 pm |
|
| Brian, I bought the four volume set one at a time, as you were thinking of doing. And as David said, it is daunting. I have asked countless people, including here on the forum, about how to do this, and although I know a little more about it than I did a year ago, it is still daunting, to the point that I don't use it like I should or want to. I highly recommend what David suggested, Christian Prayer, the one volume edition. Later on, if you want, you can buy the large set.
|
|
|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 799 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 12th, 2008 11:58 pm |
|
One person OI waned to get it for, may have alot more time on their hands eventually when they retire. I gues I just wanted it for all the neat sermons and quotes and whanot. I thought it would be a nice potpourri to get me exposed to a lot of neat passages. But I will consider going with the one volume.
What of the fact that I am trying to follow the Eastern Catholic (specifically Ruthenian for me) calendar? will this be possibe with the one volume set? Would it be as easy as kjust looking up different passages on different days? I talso seemed to be mising a lot of the psalms in it. Those must be daytime prayers. I agree, I probably do not have time for all that.
I was not sure that I was going to use it daily or not, or just wanted it to use on a weedday here and there and to use praying with others occasionally.
Brian
|
|
|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 799 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 13th, 2008 12:24 am |
|
| Regarding needing the how to booklet. I was thumbing through the Christian prayer book ,and I thoguht it seemed easy. Just know which week of the year we are on and go to that day. Al the days seemed labeled. Am I missing something, or does it change from year to year or at different times of the seasons? Also, dos it have the daily lectionary of epistles and gospel, or is that more for the mass itself and not part of the prayer life of the church?
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5314 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 13th, 2008 12:40 am |
|
brian wrote: dos it have the daily lectionary of epistles and gospel, or is that more for the mass itself and not part of the prayer life of the church?
The mass is the central part of the prayer life of the Church, and can't be separated. The Liturgy of the Hours is important, but secondary.
The Lectionary, the Liturgy of the Hours, Christian Prayer, etc., are on different cycles so there is a nearly infinite variation, making it virtually impossible to include it all in a single book. But attending mass should always come first, when possible, as the most important prayer of all.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2034 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 13th, 2008 12:48 am |
|
brian wrote:I guess I just wanted it for all the neat sermons and quotes and whanot. I thought it would be a nice potpourri to get me exposed to a lot of neat passages.
This would be fine if it were a textbook. But it’s a prayerbook, and the texts in the Office of Readings are translated with this in mind. Respect for their intended use will produce far more profit, I think, than attempting to co-opt them for other purposes.
What of the fact that I am trying to follow the Eastern Catholic (specifically Ruthenian for me) calendar?
This would be a poor fit. You would be well advised to go with something Byzantine. Why don’t you check with the pastor to see what he recommends?
It also seemed to be missing a lot of the psalms in it. Those must be daytime prayers.
The psalms are the core of the Liturgy of the Hours. The entire psalter is used in both versions spread among the different hours (there being actually only one Liturgy of the Hours; the books just access it differently for different people’s needs), although not all psalms appear in the monthly cycle. The actual usage of psalms is listed in one of the volumes, and it shows something like one psalm and part of a second that are not used somewhere. This is because of duplication, if I recall correctly. There is more than one psalm with the same text in a couple of places, and the liturgy only uses the text once and references only one of the psalms for it.
I was not sure that I was going to use it daily or not, or just wanted it to use on a weekday here and there and to use praying with others occasionally.
If you are not going to use it regularly, then it is no longer the Liturgy of the Hours but a resource for occasional use when you feel like it. Prayer requires a different approach. The liturgy, especially, is a daily discipline and requires commitment and dedication. So if you did not have this in mind, I imagine that you would not use it very often, if at all, after the newness wears off. And that would be a needless expense, don’t you think?
David
|
|
|
DrDave
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 226 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 13th, 2008 11:20 am |
|
If you want to "get a feel" for it, you might want to try the Universalis website, which can be configured for your timezone to show the appropriate readings, for a few days to give you an idea how it all fits together
Regards Doc
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1359 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 13th, 2008 11:19 pm |
|
Doc,
I have just recited the evening prayers for today (Jan. 13th) on the Universalist website. All I did was scroll down and read it aloud. I did add my own intentions at the appropriate place. If I were to take the right volume for today from the bookshelf and open it and knew which pages to flip through, would I find the same readings and prayers there? If I could use the website for a week or two and follow along with my book, I think maybe it would make more sense. I will have to go to the bookstore and buy a 2008 St. Joseph's Guide. Thanks for the website!
|
|
|
mrsbmoo
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 305 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 11:08 pm |
|
| I use my one volume Christian prayer every day for morning and night prayer. I agree with others that the benefit of the book is using it daily. You might want to pick another resource if you want to use readings more than the prayers.
____________________
Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 10 months and 17
|
|
|
raising3saints
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Sieglinde | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Moravian, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 10:51 pm |
|
Marsha, I'm new here and just came across your post about the Divine Office. I have been praying the 4-volume LOTH for 3 years (and the 1-volume for 5 years before that) so maybe I can help you become less daunted? You may PM me if you like. I taught my 10y/o son to pray the Hours so I can most likely help you.
And Brian it is nearly impossible to pray the Roman Office by the Ruthenian Calendar....that's why I'm learning the Byzantine Hours although they are longer and more involved. But part of my Rule of Prayer is to pray the Hours and I would like to pray the Eastern Hours since I am now a Byzantine Catholic.
|
|
|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 799 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 06:16 am |
|
Thanks for the post.
Can you tell me what materials or references that would have the Ruthenian divine office/hours in them?
One similarity they must have from the opening of the Divine liturgy in the priests private prayer "Open my lips and my mouth shall declare your praise"
Brian
|
|
|
raising3saints
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Sieglinde | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Moravian, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 11:34 am |
|
Brian, just wanted you to know I'm not ignoring you, I'm putting together a selection of links for you to look around at and I'll post those later today. Right off the bat, though, I can tell you that you'll need to have a Bible in which the Psalter is numbered according to the Septuagint, since this is the numbering used by the Eastern Churches.....in this numbering the Miserere is Psalm 50, not Psalm 51 as it is in (for example) the NAB. I use the Douay-Rheims personally.
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1359 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 01:53 pm |
|
| Hi Sieglinde! Welcome to the forum and thanks for the offer of help on the LOTH. Right now I am still using the website Universalis and it has been very handy. When I am at the computer I can log on and go right to the day's readings and choose what part of the day I need, and the computer is in a room where I am alone and I can read out loud. As long as I am home part of the day, it's been good. When I go out of town I will have to make do with the book! Looking forward to hearing from you, and I admire anyone who's known as Raising3saints!
|
|
|
raising3saints
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Sieglinde | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Moravian, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 01:55 pm |
|
OK Brian,
here is a link to a really wonderful page that I used until I got the book(s) that I use now:
http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
Also, this is a good reference:
http://www.unicorne.org/ORTHODOXY/2005/time.htm
These ought to get you started. In order to pray the entire Byzantine Office, one would need an entire bookshelf of books, which would be quite cost prohibitive for most people. Plus you would spend all your time either (a) setting up the books for the next Hour or (b) praying the Hours themselves, which doesn't make for any way to earn a living. I have adapted as much of them as I can into my daily life with the ongoing advice of my spiritual father.
I would ordinarily be happy to post information about the books I use, but at present they are out of print......if you still would like this information let me know and I'll post it.
Meanwhile, you'll be in my prayers!
|
|
|
raising3saints
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Sieglinde | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Moravian, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 02:18 pm |
|
Marsha,
I took a look at the Universalis website and if you follow in your book everything is much the same; I did notice that the responsory after the reading in Morning Prayer is left out (at least for today), and the wording of the ending invocation/blessing is little different. This may be because Universalis is operated by, I believe, Anglicans. In my breviary (ies) the closing blessing for the Office of Readings and the Little Hours is:
Let us praise the Lord. And give him thanks.
And for Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer:
May the Lord bless us (+), protect us from evil, and bring us to everlasting life. Amen.
For Night Prayer:
May the all-powerful Lord grant us a restful night and a peaceful death. Amen.
But, that being said, the structure is the same even if the translations of the Psalter etc. are a bit different from what is in the breviary. So you ought to be fine. I think it's just wonderful that there is interest in praying the Hours by lay people - it is truly a prayer of the entire Church and there are many graces attached to it, just as one receives graces from devoutly assisting at Mass or Divine Liturgy.
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1359 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 02:26 pm |
|
| Oh dear. I had no idea it was an Anglican site. It's been a great help to me! What I need is someone to say "Open the book to page so and so and read so and so, now turn to page so and so, etc." After a while I would become familiar enough to do it myself. As one of the moderators told me a while back, the important thing is that we are praying at regular times of the day, and using prayers the whole church, all over the world, are using.
|
|
|
raising3saints
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Sieglinde | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Moravian, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 02:40 pm |
|
Don't let the fact that it was written/maintained by Anglicans put you off, Marsha! If it helps you, use it!
Alternatively, may I recommend the book "The Divine Office for DODOS" written by a friend of mine, Madeline Pecora Nugent. It's written in a very friendly, humorous style and my son and I found that it took all the 'nerves' out of learning to pray the Office.
We need to take advantage of what's out there when learning new things.....you may notice that the links I provided to Brian regarding the Byzantine Hours are Orthodox - their liturgies and Hours are the same as the Eastern Catholic Churches for the most part, with the obvious exception that in the Liturgy the Catholics pray for the Pope, and the Orthodox do not.
Do you know anyone in your parish who prays the Hours? Are you close to a convent or monastery whose monks/nuns could help you? What about a priest or deacon?
Something I read online the other day comes to mind here......don't worry so much about praying the Hours exactly precisely correctly, just pray them as God has led you to do so, and the rubrics will eventually come. that's not to say be sloppy, but that you shouldn't let not knowing prevent you from trying (for example when you're traveling and have to rely on the breviary). God rewards sincere effort, no matter how feeble....otherwise we'd probably have no hope of ever attaining Heaven!
|
|
|
Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1204 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 03:08 pm |
|
Sieglinde, when I read your posts, I get an idea of how Saul responded to the soothing tunes from David's harp.
What a blessing for us that you have joined the Forum!
Becky
____________________
"The perfection of a soul may be measured by the degree to which it does the will of God, and finds its happiness in doing it.... O my God,...the only thing necessary is Your holy will," Divine Intimacy, pp. 15-16 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
|
|
|
raising3saints
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Sieglinde | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Moravian, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 08:26 pm |
|
Thank you Becky.....maybe it's the Franciscan in me that's showing?
I'm glad to have found this forum, and hope that God will use me in some way for His glory.
|
|
|
Current time is 09:01 pm | |
|
|
