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ecassidy
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| First Name: | Gene | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic to evangelical Protestant to evangelical Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 02:34 pm |
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Hi all,
I am on the RCIA team in my parish and the leader said publicly that making the Sign of the Cross with holy water takes away our venial sins.
I don't think this is true but I didn't challenge it. What is the answer?
And if this assertion is wrong, what should I do?
Thanks.
Peace,
Gene
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 02:42 pm |
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ecassidy wrote: I am on the RCIA team in my parish and the leader said publicly that making the Sign of the Cross with holy water takes away our venial sins.
I don't think this is true but I didn't challenge it. What is the answer?
I have never heard this before.
I would speak with her privately. Tell her you've never heard it before, and ask her where you can find reference to it. Don't tell her she's wrong, just ask her where you can find the reference because you want to learn more about it. Then come share that information with us.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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ecassidy
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| Joined: | Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 |
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| First Name: | Gene | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic to evangelical Protestant to evangelical Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 02:53 pm |
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Hi Rick,
Thanks, I will do that.
Gene
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 03:18 pm |
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It occurs to me that there might be a misunderstanding here. The Penitential Rite at mass forgives venial sins. If the Penitential Rite includes sprinkling with holy water, then the use of holy water is part of the process. However, it is not the holy water itself that forgives sins or making the sign of the cross, but the entire rite.
There are other instances where the forgiveness of venial sins might involve the use of holy water, but it is only part of a larger process. Sincere repentance itself can be sufficient to forgive venial sins, without the use of holy water or making the sign of the cross.
The idea that by itself making the sign of the cross and/or the use of holy water would forgive sins seems a little too superstitious to me, and I can find no evidence of a reliable Church teaching that would indicate it is so. The Church does not generally teach that such power resides in sacramentals, only in sacraments.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 03:48 pm |
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I’ll have to corroborate Rick’s analysis. It is not the material, such as holy water, that forgives sins, but the repentance with which one uses it. If repentance is attached to a liturgical rite, such as the penitential rite or the rite of communion in the Mass, or separately the Sacrament of Penance, it can be said that the sin is removed through the rite, but repentance is still the operative part, since without it the rite is null.
David
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JillD
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Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 06:13 pm |
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| I heard that from someone at church, too, and didn't think it sounded right.
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Annie
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Posted: Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 09:57 am |
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| My holy water bottle came with a pamphlet that said that using the holy water removes venial sins. Though the pamphlet didn't seem to be reliable.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 10:49 am |
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Annie wrote: My holy water bottle came with a pamphlet that said that using the holy water removes venial sins. Though the pamphlet didn't seem to be reliable.
Did it include an imprimateur from a bishop?
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Darlene
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Posted: Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 10:06 pm |
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I would like to take some holy water home with me from church soon. Is there a proper bottle or container to store it in, or will most any container do? Should the container be made of a certain material, for example, glass as opposed to plastic?
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 11:39 pm |
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Darlene wrote: I would like to take some holy water home with me from church soon. Is there a proper bottle or container to store it in, or will most any container do? Should the container be made of a certain material, for example, glass as opposed to plastic?
Any container will do as long as it's clean. Religious stores sell small plastic bottles, but I've seen people use gallon milk jugs, old mayonaisse jars, etc.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Annie
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Posted: Tue Apr 3rd, 2007 09:12 am |
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the pamphlet says this:
"Imprimatur: K4Albert G. Meyer
archbishop of Milwaukee, Jan. 13, 1958"
here are parts of the pamphlet:
"Holy Water a MEANS OF SPIRTUAL WEALTH
holy water is a sacramental that remits venial sin. because of the blessing attached to it, Holy Church strongly urges its use upon her children, especially when dangers threaten, such as fire, storms, sickness, and other calamities. every Catholic home always should have in it a supply of holy water.
we do not take advantage of the benefits derived from holy water.
LET US CULTIVATE ITS USE
untold spiritual wealth is concentrated in a tiny drop of blessed water.
AND WE GIVE IT SO LITTLE THOUGHT!
if we would realize now, as we shall realize after death, the many benefits which may be derived from holy water, we would use it far more frequently and with greater faith and reverence.
holy water has its great power and efficacy from the prayers of the Church, which its Divine Founder always accepts with complacency.
FOLLOWING ARE SOME OF THE PETITIONS THE PRIEST MAKES TO GOD WHEN HE BLESSES WATER
'O God... grant that this creature if Thine (water) may be endowed with divine grace to drive away devils and to cast out diseases, that whatever in the houses or possessions of the faithful may be sprinkled by this water, may be freed from everything unclean, and delivered from what is hurtful.. Let everything that threatens the safety or peace of the dwellers therein be banished by the sprinkling of this water; so that the health which they seek by calling upon thy Holy Name may be guarded from all assault.'"
there are further sections entitled
PRAYERS EFFECTIVE
DISPEL THE DEVIL
DO YOUR DEAR ONES LIVE AT A DISTANCE?
THE HOLY SOULS LONG FOR IT
REMITS VENIAL SINS
other quotes:
"Because holy water is one of the Church's sacramentals, it remits venial sin. Keep your soul beautifully pure in God's sight by making the Sign of the Cross carefully whil saying, 'By this holy water and by Thy Precious Blood wash away all my sins, O Lord."
Interesting pamphlet, very different from what we are taught now.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Apr 3rd, 2007 09:28 am |
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Annie wrote: "Because holy water is one of the Church's sacramentals, it remits venial sin. Keep your soul beautifully pure in God's sight by making the Sign of the Cross carefully whil saying, 'By this holy water and by Thy Precious Blood wash away all my sins, O Lord."
So it is not teaching that the holy water itself remits sin, but that making the sign of the cross with holy water while being repentant and asking for forgiveness remits venial sin. That makes sense.
It is the physical use of the sacramental in a penitential prayer, not the sacramental itself, that would bring about forgiveness. Like a rosary, candle, medal, or crucifix, it's not the object that matters except as a focal point for devotion; what matters is the prayer and the changes in us prayer causes.
The same language would not be used today, in the same way that indulgences are no longer expressed in days or weeks. The theology/doctrine hasn't changed, just the terminology to express it more clearly.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Annie
Banned
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Posted: Tue Apr 3rd, 2007 09:46 am |
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Annie wrote: holy water has its great power and efficacy from the prayers of the Church
I think this is the most important statement. But if one doesn't read carefully (and most people don't these days) one can be led to believe by this pamphlet that the water itself which is "magic."
I looked up this archbishop on the web and found a nice article on him from 1959 in Time. He seems like a good cardinal. He died in 1965.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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