 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Racaela Fultz
Member
| Joined: | Sat Aug 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Indiana USA |
| Posts: | 146 |
| First Name: | Racaela | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Nondenominational, will be Catholic Advent 2007 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 09:20 am |
|
Let me clarify, first, that I'm fine with a male priesthood and believe that that was God's plan. I grew up being taught that pastors had to be male, so this seems like a matter of course to me.
I have a Catholic friend, though, who doesn't agree. She says it's just a matter of time before they let women be priests.
Now the problem with looking at the Bible for support here, or the early church, is that they were all very culturally influenced. The culture of the time simply believed that women were inferior and less capable of things than men. Jesus, radically, dealt with women as equals, as can be seen in the gospels, and women played a large role in the early church, but things were quickly, as they had always been, male dominated and as time went on through the middle ages, women's positions seemed to worsen. What I am saying is that, if you take into account the culture when looking at the Bible, of course the Bible and the early church don't have women as priests. They didn't abolish slavery, either, and we still say that's wrong.
So, then, why a male priesthood? My question is, what is it about men that makes it so that they should be priests and about women that makes it so that they shouldn't? Once again, this is to answer my friend.
____________________
"To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant" - Cardinal Newman
|
|
|
japhy
Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Princeton, New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 186 |
| First Name: | Jeff (you can call me "japhy" | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic (Latin Rite) |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 10:18 am |
|
Racaela Fultz wrote: Now the problem with looking at the Bible for support here, or the early church, is that they were all very culturally influenced. The culture of the time simply believed that women were inferior and less capable of things than men. Jesus, radically, dealt with women as equals, as can be seen in the gospels, and women played a large role in the early church, but things were quickly, as they had always been, male dominated and as time went on through the middle ages, women's positions seemed to worsen. What I am saying is that, if you take into account the culture when looking at the Bible, of course the Bible and the early church don't have women as priests. They didn't abolish slavery, either, and we still say that's wrong.
So, then, why a male priesthood? My question is, what is it about men that makes it so that they should be priests and about women that makes it so that they shouldn't? Once again, this is to answer my friend. Part of my answer to this is: why a female motherhood? The Catholic Church will have the authority to ordain females as priests when males have the authority to give birth.
Women were certainly not treated as "inferiors" by Jesus, but he did not place them outside their God-ordained roles either. You don't see Jesus requesting a man (instead of a woman) to come and anoint his feet with oil and wash them with his tears. You don't see Jesus reprimanding the Apostles for not coming with spices to his tomb on Sunday morning.
The Scriptures portray a particular cultural viewpoint, it is true, but it is the viewpoint ordained by God. Your friend must accept that the Catholic Church sees all of Scripture as inspired by God, the Holy Spirit, and as such inerrant in the truths it teaches for our salvation. To argue that the Church only accepted those writings and gospels that favored men is to question the entire existence and basis of the Church, which would lead me to wonder why you'd want to be a "priest" in a Church that's known for lying. What I mean is, if this is really the work of Man and not God, why would you want to be a part of it?
I accept the Word of God -- through Scripture and Tradition -- that God established a male ministerial priesthood. It was true in the Old Covenant established with Moses, and it is true in the New Covenant established in Jesus. It's what God had prepared for with Melchizadek and Aaron, and what He brought to fruition in Jesus and the Apostles.
Absolute equality between genders is not what God ordained -- which is why He made man both male and female (cf. Gen 1:27).
____________________
[Mary said,] "Do whatever he tells you." - John 2:5
|
|
|
JasPax
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 10:25 am |
|
Racaela Fultz wrote: I have a Catholic friend, though, who doesn't agree. She says it's just a matter of time before they let women be priests.
It is not that women lack the personal ability. There are many places where women are the parish administrators and they do a great job. There are female Protestant pastors who seem to do well. That's fine for them if that is their choice.
But in the Catholic and Orthodox Church the validly ordained priest acts in the person of Christ (in persona Christi) when administering the Sacraments. The Church is the Bride of Christ. Christ was male and that's the reason He only called males to be His Apostles even though He had more regard for women than anyone else in His time.
Your friend is wrong. The Church cannot change what is valid for any of the Sacranents.
God's Blessings,
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
|
|
|
Br_Carlo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tyler, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 150 |
| First Name: | Br_Carlo (Vince Brach) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Episcopalian, CATHOLIC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 07:33 pm |
|
| God's peace. It was C.S. Lewis who noted that although it is conceivable that a woman could represent the people to God, it is inconceivable that a woman could represent Christ to the people. I've always found this observation highly significant. Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
|
|
|
japhy
Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Princeton, New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 186 |
| First Name: | Jeff (you can call me "japhy" | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic (Latin Rite) |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 12:19 am |
|
| Consider reading these three documents [MS Word, 92 K, 10pp] (On ordination of men only)
____________________
[Mary said,] "Do whatever he tells you." - John 2:5
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1382 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 12:37 pm |
|
| There are many opportunities for women and men who are not eligible for the priesthood. Not only as religious, such as Mother Teresa and Mother Angelica, but also in the laity. Look at the tremendous work of Marcus Grodi, Johnette Benkovic, all of the personalities on catholic radio who daily inspire and teach us to walk more faithfully with the Lord, in His church. The priesthood is a vocation of servitude, not acclaim. As the priest administers the sacraments, he does so in persona Christi, in the person of Christ. Christ was a man. It would be unseemly for a woman to do such a thing. It is all a part of the plan of God, the roles for men and women, in the church and in daily life. We may have male nurses and female firefighters now, but we will never have a valid female priest.
|
|
|
AggieCatholic
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 82 |
| First Name: | Lance | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | United Methodist to Roman Catholic (Anglican Use) |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 01:06 pm |
|
| Roma locuta causa finita.
____________________
What part of, "Hoc est enim Corpus meum" don't you understand?
|
|
|
JillD
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 765 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 02:45 pm |
|
AggieCatholic wrote: Roma locuta causa finita.
ummm, no comprendo. Por favor, pienso que Ud. lo traducira'.
Adios,
Jill
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
|
|
|
Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 02:56 pm |
|
"When Rome has spoken, the case is closed."
or
"When Rome talks, people listen." (the smart ones do, anyway)
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
|
|
|
Current time is 08:34 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
