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Ruthie
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houston, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 99 |
| First Name: | Ruthie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nominal Presbyterian, aetheist, evangelical Christian/Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 06:01 pm |
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I hope it's okay to come here and explain my situation. This might not be a good substitute for talking with a priest/spiritual director, but maybe someone will have the right perspective on this that might be of help to me. I'm living with such tormenting contradictions and have no idea how to resolve this in a sane manner.
I was married 28 years to my first husband. I'm now 59. I was an atheist in my teens but slowly became a Christian at 21 and then made a definite commitment to give my life to Jesus as my Lord and Savior at 25. This happened through the wonderful encouragement of Christian Reformed friends, an evangelical, fundamentalist Church. I went to the Episcopal Church because my husband wanted me to. It was the church he grew up in even though he didn't care a thing about going to church. My marriage was very difficult; my husband was verbally abusive, sometimes physically with our children, and an alcoholic. But he also had a good side. I believed it was wrong to divorce and went to God in tears many times because I didn't know how to handle the situation.
At 42, I became Catholic. (The only one in my family.) But I look back now and see that I couldn't quite accept all the Church's teachings. I had been a sort of stable anchor for the family (husband and kids) because of my central Christianity but once I became Catholic, anything church related fell apart. So my kids didn't go to church anymore, not even at Christmas or Easter, because I was no longer an Episcopalian and they wouldn't go to church without my leading the way. And certainly no one would even dream of going to the Catholic Church with me.
After moving and a few years of trying to be Catholic on my own with no support at Church or at home, I drifted away from the Church and didn't go to church anywhere.
My husband started having an affair and things got extremely difficult at home. The kids were on their own by this time.
After 32 years, my high school sweetheart came back into my life. I shocked everyone and left my husband, divorced him, and remarried my old boyfriend. We've been happpily married now for 9 years. My ex-husband married again, divorced, now lives with another woman, and is thinking about marrying her. All this has been anguish for my kids, my grandkids, and all the extended family. My daughter says that divorce is like the "long arm of the law," its effects are felt widely and down through time.
Sometimes, I'm shocked to find myself in this situation. I always believed divorce was wrong. I never dreamed I would be divorced and remarried. And the ripple effects are unbelievable. I feel so responsible.
My present husband and I went back to the Episcopal Church at my leading. He was baptized and confirmed for the first time in his 50s.
Last year I had a reawakening of my faith, a reconversion. I longed to be close to the Lord again. I started praying and reading Scripture, going to church at the Episcopal Church. I read in Luke 18:17 that Jesus said we should have the faith of a little child, that that is what is required to enter the kindgom of heaven. I prayed for that kind of faith. My eyes were opened to truths that I had been blind to before. All that adult, worldly sophistication that got me and the secularized world into trouble. I started to take Jesus at his word in the scriptures. It finally dawned on me that I had been wrong to divorce my first husband. I was hungry for spiritual food. I looked for something on TV between Sundays and Thursday Bible studies that would feed me. I found EWTN! I was familiar with Mother Angelica from my first Catholic days and had read her books. After watching EWTN for a while, I realized, that I was Catholic to the core. I next spoke with the priest in the nearby parish about coming back to the Catholic faith. I was shocked again when he told me that I would have to have my first marriage annulled, and so would my present husband have to have his first two marriages annulled.
After many months of investigating all this, finding a sponsor to take my case (the deacon), I started in on the lengthy and tedious process of petition for nullity, feeling at the same time another wrenching to familly because it felt like I was trying to erase all the years of marriage and family that we had. My kids were hurt again. I don't want to go through with it. My present husband flat refuses to go through with the process because he doesn't want to "bother" those ladies who were his first two wives which is the requirement of the petition process, that they be notified.
Now, I'm stuck. My only choice is to continue to live in adultery in the Church's eyes, (not the world's eyes) and not be able to participate in the Sacraments of the Church, or to separate or perhaps divorce my husband and live as a single woman. Another major and catastrophic decision. This would again hurt my children, my grandchildren, my extended family, and my stepdaughter and her children and family. My daughter says she hopes I can find some other resolution to this problem.
I feel rather desperate. With my reawakening, I found there were other, very serious sins that I had committed that I hadn't realized before. Mortal sins. Grave matter. I want desperately to go to confession but I can't. I feel my very soul is in peril. Yes, I've begged God for forgiveness and I believe he is merciful. But I long to be able to hear the words of absolution from a priest.
I think about my situation every day and it is a heavy burden on me. It is definitely affecting my marriage. I'm so grateful for this forum. It is the only place I can talk to other Catholics. I would greatly appreciate any feedback.
Ruthie
Last edited on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 10:39 pm by Ruthie
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Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 07:50 pm |
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Ruthie wrote: I'm living with such tormenting contradictions and have no idea how to resolve this in a sane manner.
This is one of the reasons why it's so difficult to discuss marriage issues in a forum like this. Your situation is very difficult, and the standard answers don't apply. There may be other remedies, but it would take a compassionate priest or other professional to explore these remedies with you.
You didn't mention the religion of your current husband. If he was Catholic and married outside the Church, the full Tribunal process might not be required.
Many couples our age, because of health conditions, are no longer sexually active. It is possible to be accepted into the Church as long as there is no sexual component to the relationship.
There may be other remedies as well, but the conditions necessary for their implementation are well beyond the scope of this forum. You need to find a good spiritual director. Meanwhile, remember that God does not expect the impossible. Even if you are not able to officially participate in the sacramental life of the Church, it is possible to join yourself spiritually with those receiving the Eucharist. Even though a priest might not be able to offer you sacramental absolution, he can assure you that God forgives those who are sincerely repentent.
And always remember that without God we can do nothing, but all things are possible with God.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Ruthie
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houston, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 99 |
| First Name: | Ruthie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nominal Presbyterian, aetheist, evangelical Christian/Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 08:51 pm |
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Thanks so much for your reply, Rick. I did worry that this wasn't the place to deal with this. Beyond the scope as you said. Please feel free to just delete this whole thread. I doubt it would help anyone else. Unless it's Do Not Divorce, just as Jesus said.
My present husband wasn't of any religion until after we married when he became Episcopalian. I looked into all the options. We are required to do the long form for the trhee marriages. What a mess!
The health issue might be a possible resolution.
Finding a spiritual director is virtually impossible where I am, temporarily out of state, going to a Catholic Church with an unresponsive priest. I see no retreat centers at the Diocese of Seattle website. Priests are so busy and have huge parishes. I'm afraid to even approach anyone. I will have to wait until I get home to Houston in February. But it's hard waiting.
Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 09:08 pm |
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Ruthie wrote: Finding a spiritual director is virtually impossible where I am, temporarily out of state, going to a Catholic Church with an unresponsive priest. I see no retreat centers at the Diocese of Seattle website.
Here are the retreat centers in the Archdiocese of Seattle:
http://www.seattlearch.org/FormationAndEducation/RetreatCenters/
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Ruthie
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Ruthie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nominal Presbyterian, aetheist, evangelical Christian/Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 09:24 pm |
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Well thanks, Rick. This is a different website than I went to. There are a couple of retreat centers not too far from where I am staying. I will call them to see if I can get individual spiritual direction, which I so badly need right now.
Ruthie
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Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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Talithacumi
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| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Nov 30th, 2006 03:40 pm |
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Ruthie wrote: My present husband wasn't of any religion until after we married when he became Episcopalian. I looked into all the options. We are required to do the long form for the trhee marriages. What a mess!
Ruthie
Ruthie (OK, actually, I'm addressing Rick or David or someone who could help out on this one...)
I'm certainly no expert when it comes to decrees of nullity. I'm wondering if the fact that your husband was totally unchurched (if he was unbaptized) before you were married might be a factor in your favor. I'm not sure - Rick or David or someone would know a lot more about this - but maybe "the Pauline Privilege" (do I have the right term?) might be somehow applied here? If he was unbaptized at the time of his marriages, would that make his marriages null and void in the eyes of the Church, without his having to go through the whole annulment process?
Rick? David? Any help here?
JMJ
- Cheri
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Ruthie
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Posted: Thu Nov 30th, 2006 04:06 pm |
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Cheri,
It's a bit complicated and confusing. I was the one who was not baptized when I first married at 21 years old. (I was baptized 4 years later.)
My second husband was actually baptized just before we were married and confirmed after we were married (though I have now found out that the confirmation is not valid because it was in the Episcopal Church). He was not baptized, obviously, when he married the first two times. Neither were his two spouses baptized.
Sure, the fact that one spouse was not baptized at the time of the marriage might be an issue that would be looked at by the Tribunal but one still has to go through the annulment process to have that considered.
I think one has to be a canon lawyer to understand all the intricacies of this process and why a marriage is valid or not, can be declared null or not. Even the priest at my home parish and the Deacon do not know about all these things. So much time was spent on their having to go back and ask someone on the Tribunal certain questions and then get back to me before we even knew which form we would have to use. That process alone took about 4-1/2 months.
Again, very complicated. Rick is right - I need to seek individual spiritual direction. I worry that even then I might not get a satisfactory, straightforward answer because it might be beyond the scope and knowledge of the spiritual director/priest himself. Probably the best person to talk to is someone who has also been on a Marriage Tribunal. I might have to wait until I get home to Houston in February after all.
Thanks so much, Cheri, for even taking an interest and offering a reply/question.
Ruthie
Last edited on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 04:17 pm by Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Thu Nov 30th, 2006 06:48 pm |
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Dear Ruthie-
I can see the agonizing you are doing. I have no official answers for you, but I just wanted you to know that I understand what it is like to agonize over being right with God while trying not to hurt everyone else. My circumstances are diffenrent, but I too, have struggled greatly with that. Know that God sees your yearning for him and is pleased with that. I hope you can resolve your issues without damaging your marriage, that sounds like it had been lovely. God's blessings to you.
Love,
Laura
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Nov 30th, 2006 09:58 pm |
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Ruthie wrote: I think one has to be a canon lawyer to understand all the intricacies of this process and why a marriage is valid or not, can be declared null or not. Even the priest at my home parish and the Deacon do not know about all these things. So much time was spent on their having to go back and ask someone on the Tribunal certain questions and then get back to me before we even knew which form we would have to use. That process alone took about 4-1/2 months.
When you get back to Houston, you might want to contact the Judicial Vicar of your diocese. He is the "canon lawyer" who advises the bishop on such matters. While the bishop is the one who makes the actual decisions, it is the Judicial Vicar who will most likely make the actual decisions. That might short-cut your process just because you'll be able to relate your story first-hand. I would not suggest that you do it in Seattle because the decisions there will not be followed in Houston, and you'll end up having to start over anyway.
But I would highly recommend that you seek spiritual direction as soon as possible to help you alleviate the concerns that you have about the condition of your current relationship and its effect on your relationship with God. The spiritual director you contact in Seattle may even be able to help you locate a good one in the Houston area.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Ruthie
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| First Name: | Ruthie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nominal Presbyterian, aetheist, evangelical Christian/Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Nov 30th, 2006 11:48 pm |
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Laura,
Thanks so much for your kind and understanding words. I've read your post too and know that you have suffered so much. Thanks for the reassurance that we please God by trying to do what is right in his eyes.
Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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Ruthie
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| First Name: | Ruthie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nominal Presbyterian, aetheist, evangelical Christian/Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Nov 30th, 2006 11:57 pm |
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Rick,
Thanks so much for the advice to contact the Judicial Vicar once I get back home to Houston. I didn't know there was such a person or position.
Now that the ice and snow is melting here in the Seattle area, I will start looking for a spiritual director. Maybe I will try the parish priest again. I will be like the persistent widow.
Ruthie
Last edited on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 12:08 am by Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Dec 1st, 2006 12:58 am |
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Ruthie wrote: Thanks so much for the advice to contact the Judicial Vicar once I get back home to Houston. I didn't know there was such a person or position.
That's why we're here!
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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beachmoss
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Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 01:14 am |
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Ruthie wrote: My present husband flat refuses to go through with the process because he doesn't want to "bother" those ladies who were his first two wives which is the requirement of the petition process, that they be notified.
Ruthie,
I'm not sure about your exact situation, but when I joined the Church my husband had to have his first marriage annulled. He was not happy about having to contact his ex. Our priest handled everything. He wrote a letter to her and she promptly responded to him. My husband never had to speak to her or write to her.
However, I understand his petition was rather easy in that she was a Catholic and they were not married in the Church.
I'll keep you in my prayers!
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Ruthie
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| First Name: | Ruthie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nominal Presbyterian, aetheist, evangelical Christian/Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 02:02 am |
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Thanks Beachmoss. Your experience is encouraging to me. My husband did say that he would meet with the priest with me to discuss the situation, when we finally get home again. So maybe something will come of that and he might be willing to go through with the petition process after all. It's just difficult because he is rather anti-Catholic even though he supports me in my desire to become Catholic again. His ex-wives have no religion. I'm not sure how they would respond to the notification of this process. I'm grateful that at least I have his support. Others here do not have the support of their spouse and that is so difficult and painful.
Thanks for your prayers.
And thanks to all of you who are praying for me. I have hope.
Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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Ruthie
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| First Name: | Ruthie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nominal Presbyterian, aetheist, evangelical Christian/Episcopalian, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 02:49 am |
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Okay, I now have an appointment with the priest at the local Parish.
I had called and left a message last week - no response. I emailed twice. No response, but then that was when we had that terrible wind storm in the Seattle area last Thursday night. Sunday, I was the last one to be able to speak to him after Mass, and I asked him if I could make an appointment with him. He said, "Are you Ruth?" I was so surprised and pleased that he would know who I was. He said he would reply to my email with a time. It took 2 more days but he finally gave me a time and date. Next Wednesday. I'm so glad that at last, after months and months I can finally talk to a priest who might be able to give me some spiritual direction. He's a good man with a beautiful faith. Please pray for us both.
Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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beachmoss
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Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 03:14 pm |
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| That's wonderful news! I hope your meeting goes well!!!
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Ruthie
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Posted: Wed Dec 27th, 2006 04:26 pm |
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Just in case anyone is wondering how my appointment with the priest turned out, I had to cancel it. I woke up with layrngitis this morning. It's odd about all the obstacles that have come my way in trying to deal with this dilemma. I will live with it a while longer I guess. In a few days, I'm going away on a trip for 3-1/2 weeks and will have to deal with it again when I get back.
Thanks to all for your prayers.
At this point, I feel embarrassed that this whole thread is on the forum. Rick, don't you want to remove it? I'm sure it's not doing anyone any good. It's too personal, don't you think? Well, I'll let you decide.
Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Dec 27th, 2006 04:31 pm |
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Ruthie wrote: At this point, I feel embarrassed that this whole thread is on the forum. Rick, don't you want to remove it? I'm sure it's not doing anyone any good. It's too personal, don't you think? Well, I'll let you decide.
I will remove it if you truly want me to, but there is great value to those undergoing difficulties to know that others have been through the same problems. The details may be different, but the problems recur constantly. It can offer comfort to those still facing difficulties to see how your problems resolve themselves, and I hope you'll be checking back in after your trip to keep us posted.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Ruthie
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Posted: Wed Dec 27th, 2006 06:41 pm |
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Rick,
Okay, if you think it might be of value keeping it here, that's fine. I wasn't sure. It may be quite a while before there is any resolution but I sure will let you all know when there is.
Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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Katy
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Posted: Wed Dec 27th, 2006 11:09 pm |
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| I'm sorry Ruthie, I hope you feel better soon. I am praying for your marriage situation.
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Lord, by Your cross and resurrection, You have set us free. You are the Savior of the World.
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Ruthie
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Posted: Thu Dec 28th, 2006 01:49 am |
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Katy, thanks for your concern and your prayers. I just hope I get well enough in 2 days to not be too uncomfortable on my trip or a bother to others.
When I told my husband that I was going to talk to the priest and asked if he would like to join me, he said no, but that he would like me to make a separate appointment for him too. I felt encouraged by this. But all this will have to wait now until I get back. It's hopeful anyway. So thanks again for your prayers.
Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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heardclarke
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 09:33 pm |
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Dear Ruthie,
I am awed by your determination to do the right thing and by your patience.
I am "only" 41 and married (first marriage, thanks to my DH's determination and patience in dealing with my immaturity in the early years and my stubbornness in these later ones).
But I want you to know that your "thread" is important and will help others.
I became Catholic two years ago (wanted to for at least two years before that). My DH had been Episcopalian, confirmed Catholic later under duress as a teen, then went back to the EC and was scornfully anti-Catholic for years. But we both sensed a lack of holiness and reverence in the EC as the years went on. He began talking about getting a job in a Catholic cathedral and maybe even going back. I couldn't believe it. I was eager to get started!
When I said I wanted to go through confirmation class, he didn't say much. The Catholic job had fallen through, but he was OK with me going either way. I felt lonely and scared (almost all our friends were dismayed at my choice), but I felt called and went ahead with Confirmation. One week later Pope John Paul died. Now I was really confused....then came the miracle: DH went to confession and received the Eucharist a few weeks later (after Pope Benedict was elected). Without saying anything to me beforehand.
So I guess my point is, people can change. I didn't know I could have any influence for good at all when I felt so weak and confused. I guess he saw that I did this for my children. DH still doesn't go to Mass with us because he has to work. I still struggle and sometimes think I'm a poor excuse for a Catholic. I'm going to push on anyway, and I think wives and mothers just need to stick together. 
You may have noticed that I'm from Texas too. I'll be in Houston some this summer. I'd love to join you or anyone else that had to go by themselves for Mass. I like Our Lady of Walsingham (in north Houston) and also the lovely Cathedral of the Sacred Heart in Galveston.
I'm sure I speak for others on this board when I say keep in touch. We are praying for you.
Peace be with you,
Lisa
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Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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