 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
ljcrain
Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
| First Name: | Larry | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised and baptised Baptist, Methodist for last 26 years, wish ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2007 11:13 pm |
|
I was raised a casual Baptist and became a Methodist in adulthood for the last 27 years. I was always pretty casual about church until after my dad died, at which time I started studying different religions. For reasons not important to this question, I have been very strongly pulled to the Catholic church.
I have been divorced twice. I was married for 13 years the first time and 10 years the second.
Two years after I decided that when I started going back to church it would be to a Catholic church I met my fiance who is a cradle Catholic. She was divorced once and I met her 2 years ago, several months after her second husband died.
My question is - considering our past divorces and from what I have read other places in this forum, I really don't see any way to have all of our past entanglements anulled, and therefore our marriage recognized by the Church. Because of this, I don't see any way that I will ever be able to participate in communion. Since the Eucharist is such a central part of Mass and the teaching of the church, is there really any point in becoming Catholic if one can never take communion?
|
|
|
Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1238 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 7th, 2007 12:13 am |
|
ljcrain wrote: I have been very strongly pulled to the Catholic church.
I have been divorced twice. I was married for 13 years the first time and 10 years the second.
Two years after I decided that when I started going back to church it would be to a Catholic church I met my fiance who is a cradle Catholic. She was divorced once and I met her 2 years ago, several months after her second husband died.
My question is - considering our past divorces and from what I have read other places in this forum, I really don't see any way to have all of our past entanglements anulled, and therefore our marriage recognized by the Church. Because of this, I don't see any way that I will ever be able to participate in communion. Since the Eucharist is such a central part of Mass and the teaching of the church, is there really any point in becoming Catholic if one can never take communion?
Hello, Larry,
Welcome to the Forum. Others can answer you in more detail, but I will offer two important general comments.
1. Please do not assume that you know, at this point, how the Church will rule on all those past marriages.
2. Please pray that the Holy Spirit will help you re-order your priorities. The most important thing right now is obedience to the Truth that has already been revealed to you. You have been directed toward the one true Church. See a priest and get correct guidance about what to do next.
3. It is not your responsibility to figure out all the possibilities out there in this situation. It is your responsibility to take step one, then step two. . .
suggested step one: Do not move forward into an additional marriage now.
suggested step two: See a priest right away.
suggested step three: Do as the priest instructs.
God go with you.
____________________
"He who will persevere unto the end is not he who will never fall, but he who after every fall will humble himself and rise again, relying on the infinite strength of God." Divine Intimacy, p. 885 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 7th, 2007 11:30 am |
|
ljcrain wrote: My question is - considering our past divorces and from what I have read other places in this forum, I really don't see any way to have all of our past entanglements anulled, and therefore our marriage recognized by the Church.
Do you believe your prior marriages were sacraments? Do you believe they were truly blessed by God?
Do you believe that both you and your spouses proceeded into marriage with full knowledge and consent? If you knew everything then that you know today, would you still have gotten married? Were your decisions made with reasonable expectations and maturity?
If the answer to these questions is yes, then it is possible that you have acted selfishly and chosen to end a marriage which still remains sacramentally valid. If that is the case, the Church will not declare the marriages null.
On the other hand, if the answer to any of those questions is no, how can you presume that the Church will not recognize the lack of a sacramental covenant? Yes, it will be a complicated set of arrangements that will likely take years, but that's still a long time short of "never".
Remember, the Church does not "grant an annulment". She issues a "Declaration of Nullity" which recognizes a fact already in existence, that a sacramental marriage did not take place. Each marriage must be declared null, but the first one is really the most difficult. The second is easier to prove as invalid because of the existence of the first. So it may not be quite as complicated as you think.
Yes, in some cases, Tribunals refuse to grant Declarations of Nullity. They are not automatic. But what benefit is there in assuming a denial? You didn't mention the circumstances of your future wife's divorce but if she was married outside of the Church, her case will probably be relatively simple. It's possible you may only have one full Tribunal proceeding, that being your first marriage. But you gain nothing by giving up before you even start.
I agree with Phoebe. Meet with a priest before you do anything. You may run across one who doesn't want to take the time to handle a complicated Tribunal proceeding, so don't be unwilling to meet with a second priest if you don't receive encouragement from the first (sort of like a second opinion from a doctor). Get opinions from more than one priest if necessary before you give up. And follow the Truth where it leads you, regardless of where you think it will lead. Do you think Simon the Fisherman knew his destination when he and his brother Andrew left their boat to follow Jesus?
And while the Eucharist is the central mystery and sacrifice of the Church, there is much more to being the Body of Christ and the Kingdom of God on earth. Even those who are unable to be admitted to the table may join us in spiritual communion and participate in the rest of the life of the Church.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
ljcrain
Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
| First Name: | Larry | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised and baptised Baptist, Methodist for last 26 years, wish ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 7th, 2007 08:37 pm |
|
Thanks for the replies. Reading my post now I didn't realize I was writing in such a frustrated tone, I must be more frustrated about this than I thought. It also seems apparent that my questions belong in the marriage section, this particular point has just been the most worrisome for me.
Do you believe your prior marriages were sacraments? Do you believe they were truly blessed by God?
The second one definitely not. The first we were both 19 and were married in the Methodist church which I joined because she was a Methodist preachers daughter. I really didn't care which if any church I went to. So in the context of the marriage being performed in a church, yes - as to how the question can be answered in the context of my beliefs then and now I just don't know. You are right, I need to talk to a priest.
If the answer to these questions is yes, then it is possible that you have acted selfishly and chosen to end a marriage which still remains sacramentally valid. If that is the case, the Church will not declare the marriages null.
Yeah that is certainly where all of the trials and tribulations I've read about in the marriage section are seated, which leads me to other questions that are better posted there I assume.
You certainly make the process sound more possible than what I had gathered from reading the marriage section of this site. Perhaps there is more hope than I realized.
Thanks you for your great advice and again, I appologize for coming across a little too passionate in my original post.
|
|
|
jumpdog
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Charlotte, North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 06:05 pm |
|
Larry,
I've got a little different angle on your situation.
I am a cradle catholic who married outside fo the Church 20 years ago. It's a long story, but I did not go to Mass for a long time. I felt called back about 10 years ago, and I started attending Mass regularly. I received Communion on those Sundays (unworthily-- because I had not gone to confession beforehand, and because I had married outside of the Church). The really big error was marriage outside of the Church, and I realised this error over 5 years ago (pointed out by a very good priest). I have not received the Sacraments since then (I had actually gone to confession shortly before finding out the truth of my situation). My wife has so far refused my requests to convalidate our marriage, but I feel that it is still a possiblility.
My point is that God appreciates obedience. He has showered me with many special graces during this period of abstaining from the Sacraments. You are apart of the Mass by being in the congregation and witnessing the sacrifice. There is no higher prayer than participating in the Mass!
The Rosary is also my strength. I have a long commute each day, and I use this as my prayer time. Through the intercession of Mary, I was drawn into a deeper and more fulfilling prayer life just by saying the Rosary everyday! I cannot begin to describe some of the consolations that God has given me though prayer. God has opened a new door through which I have come to see myself as I truly am-- wounded, broken, sinful, but LOVED!
Read stories about the saints-- especially St Augustine (and St. Monica)! Their stories will inspire you to perservere in your journey to God. My life is a bowl of cherries compared to some of them!!
I do feel somewhat like an "incomplete Catholic", but it's better than not attending Mass, or (worse) receiving the sacraments in an unworthy state (which actually does more harm than good-- see 1 Cor. 11).
My hunger for His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity (as well as the desire to have all my sins forgiven) is all-consuming, but obedience to the Church is even more important. God knows where I am right now on my spiritual journey, and I know and trust Him enough to know that He will not abandon me.
When Jesus speaks about those who knock at the door, I see myself outside waiting to be let in. I know that it will take many more years of knocking to be let back in (if at all), but at least I am knocking on the right door!
Even if God decides that I am never to be allowed in to receive the sacraments ever again, I will accept His will. He knows what is best for me, and I trust His will.
If you do go talk with a priest, make sure that he does not violate Church norms by allowing you to take the sacraments anyway. I have encountered a few priests who believe that nothing should stand in the way of receiving, and I don't want you to fall victim to such unorthodox priests. I even encountered a parishoner who tried to "sneak" a piece of a consecrated host to me, but I made it a teaching moment by explaining why the Church teaches that abstaining is the best thing for me.
However, please feel free to attend Mass on Sundays (and during the week if it is possible). The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is such a great comfort-- especially when a pious and orthodox priest is the celebrant.
Jumpdog
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 10:47 pm |
|
jumpdog wrote: My wife has so far refused my requests to convalidate our marriage, but I feel that it is still a possiblility.
Have you ever discussed the possibility of a radical sanation with your priest?
Just curious.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
jumpdog
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Charlotte, North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2007 09:12 am |
|
Cajunrick,
I actually had the paperwork in hand... but I did not follow through with filing. Upon lots of reflection and prayer, I think that God wanted me to wait for my wife to agree to convalidation rather than "paper" my way back into full communion. I am offering up this sacrifice for the benefit of my wife and our marriage.
Thank you for bringing that up... I hadn't thought about my reasons for a while, and you have reminded me that I need to offer it up continually.
|
|
|
anfan
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 28 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 08:48 pm |
|
Jumpdog,
Are you aware that if you're willing to live continently, as brother and sister, you may receive the Sacraments now?
The answer by Fr. Vincent Serpa (the chaplain of Catholic Answers) to the following question that appeared in the latest issue of This Rock magazine might be helpful:
Question: For a while I could not receive Communion as a decision had not yet been made regarding the validity of my previous marriage. I have since wondered why the Church holds the worst sinners at arm's distance. Is the Eucharist truly the body and blood of Christ (who wants all sinners to come to him) or is it a "symbol" of our membership in this exclusive club called the Catholic Church?
Answer: The Church doesn't hold the worst sinners at arm's distance: The sinners themselves do. The Church isn't forcing them to sin. They are doing that quite on their own. The Church does not withhold the Lord's compassion any more than he did. But he was only compassionate with those who were repentant, and then he warned them not to engage in such activity again.
When you were waiting for an annulment, you could have received Holy Communion if you were not having marital relations with someone with whom you were not validly married. Perhaps you didn't know that to do so is a grave sin. One cannot profess one's unconditional love for the Lord while at the same time engaging in sinful activity.
The Church wasn't holding you at arm's distance. You could have gone to confession and determined to live as brother and sister until you were validly married -- and then received Holy Communion. Many do. Unfortunately, priests often fail to tell people this. -- Fr. Vincent Serpa (This Rock, November 2007, p.43)
Pax
|
|
|
jumpdog
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Charlotte, North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 16th, 2007 09:56 am |
|
Anfan,
Thanks for the information. However, I have already asked my wife to do so, and she has refused.
I had a good, long talk with my pastor over 5 years ago after I was fired from a job. He is a very special priest because he had been married (but his wife died many years ago) as well he had been a manager for a large company. I was really worried about getting another job since I had been fired, but during our conversation I told him that we had been married outside of the Church. It was then and there that he informed me that I should not be receiving the sacraments (I was not aware that I should not be receiving beforehand). He said that first I should ask her to convalidate the marriage. But if she did not want to do that, I should then ask her if we could refrain from marital relations until such time that she would agree to convalidate. If she refused that, then he told me that I cannot refuse relations with her. Worst of all, she insists on using contraception.
So, that's where I am right now. I want so desperately to live a holy life, but I am suffering the consequences of my bad choices.
I went to perpetual adoration last night, and I saw a young couple who came in for just a few minutes to pray together. I was very happy for them, but it also felt like a knife in my heart. I so desperately would like to have a wife that could share my desire for an intimate relationship with God, but she is not willing to do so. I pray for her all of the time, and I know that I must be patient.
Please pray for me... it's really tough right now.
Jumpdog
|
|
|
anfan
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 28 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 16th, 2007 07:44 pm |
|
jumpdog wrote: He said that first I should ask her to convalidate the marriage. But if she did not want to do that, I should then ask her if we could refrain from marital relations until such time that she would agree to convalidate. If she refused that, then he told me that I cannot refuse relations with her. Worst of all, she insists on using contraception.
Jumpdog,
I was concerned when I read this, so I spoke to Fr. Vincent about your situation. I'm afraid your priest has given you some bad advice. Sexual relations outside of a valid marriage are gravely sinful (not to mention the contraception issue). There is never justification to engage in such activity. You are under no obligation to have relations with someone with whom you are not validly married. If you choose to do so, you're endangering your eternal soul.
Determine to live continently, go to Confession, and receive the Holy Eucharist. Remember that it's not always easy to follow Christ -- we're often called to make great sacrifices for Him -- but God gives us the grace.
If you would like to call Fr. Vincent and discuss the matter with him personally, the number at Catholic Answers is 1-619-387-7200. He said that he would be happy to speak with you.
Pax
P.S. Do you have the book When Only One Converts? It's a collection of conversion stories edited by Lynn Nordhagen. All of the contributors came into the Church without their spouses. You might find it encouraging. If you don't already have it, I'd be happy to send you a copy. Just let me know.
|
|
|
3John4
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 95 |
| First Name: | Dede | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic, Protestant, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 07:42 pm |
|
Anfan,
I hope this doesn't sound ridiculously shallow.
For many of us who have converted or reverted without our spouse, a great deal of pain and sacrifice has been part of the bargain. The choice has not been made lightly, so it seems reasonable that none of us would want to do anything that would "endanger our eternal soul".
However, to cut off marital relations with a spouse you pray constantly will see the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church is a double-edged sword. While you may be demonstrating your devotion to the teachings of the Church, you may also be creating greater hostility in your spouse.
While my husband did agree to convalidate our marriage because he saw how much it meant to me, he asked several times, "Do you honestly believe our marriage has been invalid in the eyes of the Lord for the past 24 years?" If I had rejected marital relations when I reverted, I'm honestly not sure he would have agreed to the convalidation.
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 11:08 pm |
|
3John4 wrote: While my husband did agree to convalidate our marriage because he saw how much it meant to me, he asked several times, "Do you honestly believe our marriage has been invalid in the eyes of the Lord for the past 24 years?" If I had rejected marital relations when I reverted, I'm honestly not sure he would have agreed to the convalidation.
I am inclined to agree. The ministers of the Sacrament of Matrimony in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church are the spouses, not the priest. The priest stands only as the official witness that a sacrament takes place. If a priest is not available, the couple stranded on a desert island may contract a valid sacramental marriage with only themselves present; those in an area without Catholic clergy may contract a sacramental marriage in a judge's chambers. With a bishop's permission, a couple may be validly married in a chapel in Las Vegas or on a mountaintop in Tibet. A first marriage between Protestants is recognized as sacramental even though no priest witnesses the exchange. The process of "radical sanation" recognizes a marriage as sacramental in the eyes of the Church even though years may have passed since the exchange of vows. The Church does not make a marriage a sacrament; it only recognizes or convalidates a sacramental marriage.
A marriage before a judge or a Protestant minister may well be a sacrament (as recognized by "radical sanation") and a marriage before a priest may well not be a sacrament (as recognized by a Declaration of Nullity). The couple makes the sacrament.
The Church teaches us that sexual relations outside a sacramental marriage are a grave evil. However, the Church also teaches us that three conditions are necessary for a grave evil to become gravely sinful: we must commit a gravely evil act with full knowledge and consent. In a marriage, the Church does not make the sacrament, it only recognizes it, validates it, and records it. And the sacrament may well exist between the spouses even if the Church has no knowledge or participation.
I have a lot of respect for Fr. Vincent, but in this case I must disagree. A violation of the laws of the Church, through no fault of the Catholic, is not necessarily a grave sin because of lack of intent. The marriage was contracted at a time when the laws of the Church were not considered significant for whatever reason, so the invalid marriage was not contracted deliberately. I don't think it would be appropriate to receive the Eucharist as a person in a marriage not recognized by the Church is not in full communion, but to say that marital relations would be gravely sinful is an entirely different matter. Through the process of radical sanation this marriage could well be declared valid by the Church. I think it is a mistake to presume it is invalid simply because the paperwork has not been processed.
Having said that, let me also say that I encourage all couples who have no impediments to their marriage to renew their vows in the presence of a priest, whether the Church considers their marriage valid or not. My wife and I were married in a Catholic church by a priest, and we have renewed our vows three times. (I honestly don't think our actual wedding was a sacramental marriage for many reasons; I think it became a sacrament when we renewed our vows on our fifth anniversary.) I think it helps the couple to realize that a marriage is a sacrament that truly involves the husband, wife, and children, as well as the community, the Church, and God. Marriage is not between a man and a woman; it takes a village to make a marriage and raise a child. (And that may be one of the few things I agree with Hillary Clinton about.)
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2096 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 12:32 am |
|
Might I also add a small argument from the moral point of view? Only keep in mind is that this is my opinion, not an official ruling.
The case at issue is not whether an illicit marriage between an errant Catholic and a Protestant Christian is non-sacramental. Of course it is. The real question is, what should be — and realistically can be — done about it?
The Catholic party has done two things: he has refrained from the sacraments (correct and proper) and he has asked his wife to help him convalidate his marriage (she has refused). She has also refused to live as brother and sister, thus disallowing him this possibility. There are children involved as well, and for this reason the Catholic party has remained in the marriage.
The Catholic party then has three choices to make it possible for him to once again receive the sacraments: 1) he can withhold marital rights in spite of his wife’s insistence; 2) he can leave the marriage environment altogether; or 3) he can file for a radical sanation (which so far he has declined to do).
Morally, it is wrong to withhold marital rights, even in the case of an illicit marriage, simply because it is a valid marriage. (The Church assumes it is a valid marriage unless proved otherwise, and the parties involved factually concur, so its validity is not at issue.) To withhold these rights would probably cause this marriage to fail. Is this better? No. Therefore, it is sinful to withhold them.
Again, it is wrong to break up a marriage by separation when there are clear responsibilities to remain in the union. Children are this responsibility. Legally, it would be abandonment, a punishable crime. Therefore, it would be sinful for the Catholic party to leave.
This leaves radical sanation. Is it morally wrong not to file for radical sanation in a case like this? Not to my knowledge. Furthermore, it is conceivable that a tribunal could rule against the Catholic party. Moreover, it costs money to process a petition; somebody has to pay for the labor and materials used. Where is that going to come from? Would the non-Catholic spouse veto such an expenditure? How could it be morally expedient to file a petition under such circumstances?
My conclusion, then, is that this couple is doing the best it can to hold a family together and raise the children while recognizing that there is no “safe” way to handle the moral predicament. No matter which way they turn, there are problems and no guarantee of a return to the state of grace for the Catholic party. It’s an impasse, and we should leave well enough alone.
David
|
|
|
anfan
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 28 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 03:27 am |
|
Jumpdog,
I hope you will call Fr. Vincent and speak to him personally about your situation. He's a very knowledgeable, orthodox priest. This is a serious matter; it would be better to discuss it with the chaplain of Catholic Answers than lay people on a forum.
Pax et Bonum
AF Last edited on Thu Oct 18th, 2007 03:40 am by anfan
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2096 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 09:26 am |
|
Anfan, now that we’ve all had our say and placed our reasoning on the table, I agree that consulting a priest is still a good idea. Arguments are never equal to authority.
David
|
|
|
jumpdog
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Charlotte, North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 10:08 am |
|
Wow!!!
I never thought that I would be the focus of this much discussion!
I thank all of you for your concern. I am truly blessed to have access to loving people who are concerned about me... even if it is "electronically"!
David, your explanation is almost verbatim what my pastor said back in Jan 2002. It's not the best situation, but I am doing my best to keep the family together.
Cajunrick, thanks again for the information. I will give more prayer and thought to the radical sanation. BTW, be careful when you agree with Hitlary... what happens after she flip-flops... does it mean that you would then disagree with her? 
Special thanks to Dede... you are truly a kindred spirit who knows exactly where I am!
In order to settle the difference of opinion, I think that I will consult the bishop. He has proven himself to be a good, conservative shepherd (Bishop Jurgis-- Diocese of Charlotte, NC), and I trust what he says. I'll let you know as soon as I talk with him.
Jumpdog
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 02:14 pm |
|
jumpdog wrote: be careful when you agree with Hitlary... what happens after she flip-flops... does it mean that you would then disagree with her?
She can't flip-flop on the title of her book. That's why I can safely agree with it. 
In order to settle the difference of opinion, I think that I will consult the bishop. He has proven himself to be a good, conservative shepherd (Bishop Jurgis-- Diocese of Charlotte, NC), and I trust what he says. I'll let you know as soon as I talk with him.
I think that is an excellent idea. I'll be looking forward to hearing his response.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Current time is 04:20 am | |
|
|
|
|
|
