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JillD
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| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 12:43 am |
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As I understood him, he said that when he takes the consecrated bread to a nursing home, he gives the Body to anyone who asks him for it without his being sure of whether they are Catholic or not, or in a state of grace or not.
Is this proper practice?
/Jill
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 01:27 am |
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JillD wrote: As I understood him, he said that when he takes the consecrated bread to a nursing home, he gives the Body to anyone who asks him for it without his being sure of whether they are Catholic or not, or in a state of grace or not.
Yes. It is not the role of the Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion to determine whether or not a person should be receiving the Eucharist, either in a nursing home or in church. Extraordinary Ministers are instructed to give the Eucharist to all who properly request it, without making judgements.
I have visited many residents of nursing homes, and many of them are not mentally aware enough to be able to answer questions validly either because of medication or illness. Many, because of their health, have been unable to attend mass for years. So we give them the Eucharist and let God take care of the rest.
The situation is no different for a pro-abortion politician. The Church advises them not to receive the Eucharist, but if they present themselves in my communion line, I am not to refuse them. It is their judgement which God will question, not mine. If there is sin in their reception of the Body and Blood, it is their sin in requesting the Eucharist, not mine in giving it to them.
Remember that when Jesus passed his Precious Body and Precious Blood around the table at the Last Supper, he knew who was to betray him, and he shared his Body and Blood with him as well, even though his betrayal was already arranged.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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JillD
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 01:57 pm |
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cajunrick wrote: Yes. It is not the role of the Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion to determine whether or not a person should be receiving the Eucharist, either in a nursing home or in church. Extraordinary Ministers are instructed to give the Eucharist to all who properly request it, without making judgements.
I have visited many residents of nursing homes, and many of them are not mentally aware enough to be able to answer questions validly either because of medication or illness. Many, because of their health, have been unable to attend mass for years. So we give them the Eucharist and let God take care of the rest.
I understand what you're saying and it does make sense. But I'm still hung up on the passage of Scripture which speaks of those who partake without recognizing Christ's Body and Blood bringing judgment on themselves. Isn't it at least worth a word of warning so that you don't enable something like that to happen?
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 02:44 pm |
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JillD wrote: cajunrick wrote: Yes. It is not the role of the Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion to determine whether or not a person should be receiving the Eucharist, either in a nursing home or in church. Extraordinary Ministers are instructed to give the Eucharist to all who properly request it, without making judgements.
I understand what you're saying and it does make sense. But I'm still hung up on the passage of Scripture which speaks of those who partake without recognizing Christ's Body and Blood bringing judgment on themselves. Isn't it at least worth a word of warning so that you don't enable something like that to happen?
Of course. I would never randomly wander the halls and offer the Eucharist to anyone who will take it. That's not the way nursing homes usually work anyway. Either the patient or a family member must notify the nurses on duty that the resident is interested in receiving the Eucharist, and when the minister arrives he or she is either given a list of names or taken to the various rooms. There should be a little conversation, including an opportunity to pray the Act of Contrition or at least to ask God for forgiveness of sins. I would also ask the resident if he or she had been to confession or anointed recently by a priest, and offer to call their pastor or a nearby priest. It was not unusual for me to spend an hour or more with a patient, followed by a phone call to a family member to fill in any gaps in my understanding of the patient's needs.
Most nursing homes (at least in my area) have dedicated ministers who visit regularly and get to know the residents. They will often conduct communion services or assist with mass if a priest is available, and while the priest is distributing communion, the minister will be taken to the rooms of bedbound patients who have requested Eucharist, or will have visited often enough that he or she knows where to go. New residents will get a longer visit so the minister has an opportunity to get to know them.
So it's more controlled than it may have appeared in the original message, but it still doesn't change the basic answer. We distribute communion to all who properly present themselves for the sacrament, and they and God will determine whether they have received unworthily.
One point: Notice that I said "all who properly present themselves". We should never randomly offer the Body and Blood of our Savior. We should make sure they have properly presented themselves by attempting to determine whether they are Catholic, whether they have been to confession recently, etc. If not, we should suggest a visit from a priest rather than offer Eucharist.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Katy
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| Location: | DFW, Texas USA |
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 04:06 pm |
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I recently had a discussion about this with the Pastoral Associate/RCIA director at my church. At the Rite of Welcoming for the RCIA candidates and catechumens, I saw a candidate taking from the cup. I brought this to the Associate’s attention and she made an announcement at RCIA reminding everyone that until they are received into the Church at the Easter Vigil, they can go forward for a blessing only. But she and I also privately discussed (because I am an EM as well) what to do if someone we know should not be receiving, comes forward and wishes to take the Host or Cup. She said that she personally could never refuse someone the Body and Blood of Jesus.
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Lord, by Your cross and resurrection, You have set us free. You are the Savior of the World.
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JillD
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 05:07 pm |
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Rick, thank you. That further explanation is very comforting. One of the things I see in the Lutheran church, though they say they believe in the Real Presence, is a lack of reverence for the elements. This tells me that what they say and what they truly believe sometimes do not coincide. I'm glad to hear that EM's do make some effort to be sure that they're not giving Communion to just anyone, but that there is some getting to know the person and some amount of making sure they are properly prepared to receive. Thank you!
Jill
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 05:35 pm |
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JillD wrote: Rick, thank you. That further explanation is very comforting. One of the things I see in the Lutheran church, though they say they believe in the Real Presence, is a lack of reverence for the elements. This tells me that what they say and what they truly believe sometimes do not coincide. I'm glad to hear that EM's do make some effort to be sure that they're not giving Communion to just anyone, but that there is some getting to know the person and some amount of making sure they are properly prepared to receive. Thank you!
It does take some common sense. If I see a small child who I think might be too young to receive Eucharist, I'll look for an adult accompanying them to tell me it's OK. If I see someone who obviously doesn't know what they're doing, I'll watch how they place their hands or look for other signs that they belong there. Sometimes I'll give them communion and go looking for them after mass, meet them, and question them. (Not confrontational ... more like, "Are you a visitor here?") and offer correction then if it's needed, and fellowship if it's not. But it really is seldom an issue. It's happened maybe a dozen times in the last 20 years.
Much more common is to have lapsed Catholics come to communion at weddings and funerals. That is not the place for a confrontation. When I conducted the wedding rehearsals I would always remind them that only practicing Catholics are permitted to receive communion, but otherwise all I can do is trust them to God's grace.
More than a few people have rediscovered a hunger for the Eucharist and come back to the Church because of such an "accident" at a wedding or funeral, and the guilt they feel afterwards. Obviously the Holy Spirit is using their improper discernment and fills them with guilt for receiving improperly, motivating them to seek sacramental confession and a return to the Church.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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BodRod
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 06:45 pm |
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<<<Yes. It is not the role of the Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion to determine whether or not a person should be receiving the Eucharist, either in a nursing home or in church. ……… So we give them the Eucharist and let God take care of the rest. ……... If there is sin in their reception of the Body and Blood, it is their sin in requesting the Eucharist, not mine in giving it to them. >>>
I am very glad that this topic came up. I have had people not give the appropriate response after my proclamation and a couple of the take it out of my hand rather than receiving the Host. Fortunately, I saw a cardinal in the National Shrine (on EWTN) look shocked when a girl practically snatched the Host out of his hand and pop it into her mouth but he made no fuss about it so I have not made a fuss either. However, I have always wondered about the situation. That is something they did not cover in Eucharistic Minister training. I will feel better about the situation in the future. 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 07:38 pm |
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BodRod wrote: Fortunately, I saw a cardinal in the National Shrine (on EWTN) look shocked when a girl practically snatched the Host out of his hand and pop it into her mouth but he made no fuss about it so I have not made a fuss either. However, I have always wondered about the situation. That is something they did not cover in Eucharistic Minister training. I will feel better about the situation in the future.
Unfortunately there are many who will try to grab the host away from the minister, and when I can, I try to prevent it. If it's someone I recognize, I will find them after mass and let them know why we do it the way we do. I also have some people trying to receive the Eucharist in one hand while holding a baby and "popping" it into their mouth after like it was an M&M. It drives me nuts. Sometimes I'll pretend that I do not notice their hand, and place the host on their tongue. I'll often turn and watch them to make sure they don't drop the host or put it in a pocket.
If it is a serious problem, it needs to be brought to the pastor's attention. It is his responsibility to make sure that the people in his parish receive the Eucharist properly, not the minister's.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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beachmoss
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 06:44 pm |
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This thread brings up a question I've had nagging me for over five years now. After my last child was born, on a Saturday afternoon, I asked the nurse on that night if someone was available to bring the Eucharist to me on Sunday. So the visiting nun stopped by Sunday morning and asked if I was the one who had requested the Eucharist. I told her yes, and then she asked my husband if he would like to receive too. He politely told her he is not Catholic. She asked if he believed in the True Presence, and he answered "yes." She said, "Well, I'll bring one for you too."
When she returned later with the consecrated Host my husband was out of the room. So I've wondered for five years 1) would she have given it to him; and 2) if so--was this proper?
Of course no one on this forum could answer #1, but what about my second question--could she and should she have given my husband the Eucharist?
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue Jan 30th, 2007 05:00 pm |
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beachmoss wrote:…could she [the nun] and should she have given my husband the Eucharist?
Although there is no way to know for sure at this distance, I suspect the nun was overstepping the bounds in offering the Eucharist to your husband. The rule on non-Catholics receiving the Eucharist is as follows:
Canon 844 §4 If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgement of the diocesan Bishop or of the Episcopal Conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other christians not in full communion with the catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed.
§5 In respect of the cases dealt with in §§2, 3 and 4, the diocesan Bishop or the Episcopal Conference is not to issue general norms except after consultation with the competent authority, at least at the local level, of the non-catholic Church or community concerned.
(1983 Code of Canon Law)
“Other Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church” refers to Protestants. Orthodox Christians are treated separately in the preceding section of the canon.
Note that in any case, the permission of both the Catholic bishop and a corresponding authority in the non-Catholic body is required, and this is contingent on “a danger of death” or “some other grave and pressing need,” which obviously did not exist for your husband at that time.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Jan 30th, 2007 05:41 pm |
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beachmoss wrote: When she returned later with the consecrated Host my husband was out of the room. So I've wondered for five years 1) would she have given it to him; and 2) if so--was this proper?
I suspect she would have (or she wouldn't have offered), but it definitely was not proper. There are certain circumstances under which the bishop can give permission for a non-Catholic who expresses a real belief in the True Presence to receive communion for a special circumstance, but it is extremely rare. Also, as David indicated, members of those Churches which we recognize as having true sacraments (Orthodox and a few others) can receive communion from a Catholic minister if they ask for it and if no priest of their faith is available, such as if a member of an Orthodox faith was hospitalized in my town.
Otherwise, communion is reserved to Catholics in good standing with the Church.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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beachmoss
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Posted: Wed Jan 31st, 2007 04:35 pm |
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David and Rick,
Thanks for the replies! I always thought that was improper.
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Johnnie o
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Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 10:15 pm |
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hello beachmoss,
As a eExtraordinary Minister, once told I am not Catholic by someone, if ill and in the hospital , i would ask if they would like me to read a passage from the bible, Hebrew Scripture, or New testament; i would also ask them if they would like to pray with me, or me over them.
At home, and hosp. visits- Members of the Catholic Church who are physically able to go to Church, are not suppose to be administered to. However, when asked, I do comply.
there are some 22 other Catholic religions, but they are Catholic none the less, and share our doctrines and dogmas.
Even in the Church while assiting in ministering the Holy Eucharist, I cannot refuse a person, even though May feel it is wrong too. It is not the place or the time to do so. I simply wait til the mass ends and then I present, what i beleive to be a problem to the priest, I haven't had to do this as of yet, but that is the procedure.
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All warfare is based on deception
The Opponent is wise: Whenever He can, He makes use of the easiest and most effective of his weapons: Gossip. It doesn’t take much effort to use it, because others do the work for him. A few miss-directed words can des
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beachmoss
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Posted: Thu Aug 2nd, 2007 01:51 am |
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John,
Thank you for your comments! And welcome to the forum!
While rereading this post I thought about David's post about the Eucharist being offered to non-Catholics when there is danger of death. Perhaps she was able to sense the fact that I could have killed him the following day! 
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GoFisher
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 12:12 am |
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In a book explaining The Mass:
“We respond to the words “The Body of Christ” or “The Blood of Christ” with “Amen.” [Amen means 'so be it'.] This is a sign of our agreement with all that the church teaches and believes about Christ. We should not receive if we are conscious of any serious unconfessed sin, or if we are not yet in full communion with the church.”
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