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Ali
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Posted: Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 01:31 pm |
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In our parish bulletin they said classes start in July for EM's. I think I would sort of like to. But I don't want to seem (don't laugh!) like I'm hogging things to do at church  LOL I do a CCD class, assist at VBS in the summer as well as at my dd's Catholic school when needed, and we go to a neighboring parish once a week to help serve hot meals for the needy.
And I hate to assume that I am even worthy of doing this. So maybe I should just stick what I already do 
What do you think?
How did the opportunity open up for you to do it?
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Robert
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Posted: Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 02:07 pm |
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"And I hate to assume that I am even worthy of doing this."
That seems to be the problem all over. Folks who really understand what it means to be an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion are worried that they are not worthy. Let me tell you a “secret”: non are worthy on their own accord! BUT through grace we are blessed to share Holy Communion with others in a way that goes beyond personal reception or adoration.
The first time I served as an EMOHC, all I could see was Him (the Host) and the face of the communicant in front of me. It was like tunnel vision. I was filled with such peace that I didn’t want the line to end. I really saw this as a gift where he was letting me know everything is just fine.
Courage!
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 05:23 pm |
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Ali wrote:
What do you think?
I think we need more Extraordinary Ministers who realize just how extraordinary the opportunity to be of service to the Eucharist truly is!
Most ministers (in my opinion and experience) do not show the Eucharist the respect it deserves, so there is a shortage of those who truly minister the Eucharist (as opposed to just handing it out).
How did the opportunity open up for you to do it?
I was invited about 30 years ago, after a time as a minister at an experimental parish while I was in college in the very early 70's. In my parish the selection of EMHC's has always been by invitation only, and only recently have we started asking for volunteers.
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Rick Luquette
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Coach America
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Posted: Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 05:59 pm |
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Ali,
with the respect that you show for this ministry you sound like the perfect one. I found it to be a tremendous honor to serve as an Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist. I came out of a very long term membership in the church of Christ but have believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist/Lord's Supper/Communion for close to twenty yrs. This really began my journey to the Church. Now I just imagine as I present our Lord to others the great company of Heavenly Host that surround us. If we could only see the spiritual reality of this glorious sight. Glory to God, Glory to God!!
Coach..
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 07:42 pm |
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Ali, for what its worth, I have never considered being an EM.
1. Have you noticed that when women step in, men back off, creating a disproportionate amount of women doing the work? My Mom has always said, "Once men figure out a woman will do it, then they dump everything on women". [Apologies to all you good men out there] LOL!! I sure saw that over the many years in the corporate world, let alone all us women expected to carry housework and full-time jobs. But seriously, consider how when altar girls start serving, the boys think that kind of service is 'fer girls" and the number of boys serving rapidly depletes. I figure I'm leaving jobs to men while I have plenty of other things to do.
2. Historically, the Church typically didn't allow women in the Sanctuary for many reasons, which still exist. Since the 60s, this is now allowed, but I still feel too odd about it.
3. Historically, only the ordained priest handled the Eucharist with his consecrated hands. Since the 60s, laity is now allowed to touch the Eucharist. But I feel so unworthy to touch the Eucharist with my own lay hands, not wanting to appear to reduce the importance of the priest, that I receive on the tongue. I would never consider distributing Holy Communion.
Women have so much other nurturing works such as teaching and caring for the sick and homebound, caring for the altar cloths and flower arranging....I think we are busy enough! 
Just my UNhumble opinion...  since you asked. Maybe another side that you hadn't considered?
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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Ali
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Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 01:25 pm |
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Tina in Ashburn wrote: Ali, for what its worth, I have never considered being an EM.
Just my UNhumble opinion... since you asked. Maybe another side that you hadn't considered?
Thank you, Tina, for your honest opinion. I do appreciate what you are saying. Very much so. I didn't encourage my dd to be an alter server for this very reason. I do believe that women and men have very different, yet uniquely important, roles to fulfill within the Church. And my other aspects of volunteer-ism reflect your post.
This was something my dh and I were considering doing together. I will still encourage him to do so, while I pray about it a bit more for me.
I thank all the guys for responding encouragingly as well, thanks for your support  It is an honor, isn't it? We'll have to see what happens . . . . .
Ali
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 09:26 pm |
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Not to discourage or disparage you or anyone else who has a pious desire along these lines, but I'm pretty much with Tina on this one (and I extend it to women and men). Even if one likes the idea of lots of eucharistic ministers, they are used far too much. Somewhere the regulations say (couldn't tell ya where) that they are only to be used in rare circumstances of very large crowds. Of course we know that this is not followed all that much.
My (liturgically traditional) parish doesn't have them at all. No doubt that has played a large part in the formation of my opinion. I understand that what Tina stated is correct: "Historically, only the ordained priest handled the Eucharist with his consecrated hands."
There is some significant early Church data on communion in the hand, though. I think it can lead to possible irreverence but not necessarily so, and not because of some intrinsic lack of sacredness in a hand compared to a mouth. Both involve physical touch after all. The attitude of reverence goes far deeper than that, and has to be a part of a person prior to whether they make the decision of how to receive holy communion. Piety comes ultimately from the heart and is only reflected by our actions (Sermon on the Mount).
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 09:34 pm |
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Rick wrote:
Most ministers (in my opinion and experience) do not show the Eucharist the respect it deserves, so there is a shortage of those who truly minister the Eucharist (as opposed to just handing it out).
This shows, I think, one of the potential and actual problems with having an abundance of eucharistic ministers. Even the ones who feel so led ("most"!) are not showing proper reverence. Perhaps this indicates in part the wisdom of the older tradition of leaving this task to the priest, who (chances are) will show the proper reverence. To the extent that EM's do not, then they have a deleterious effect (by negative example) on the overall reverence or "atmosphere" of the parish in which they serve (people being, too often, "sheep"). And that is a very serious matter indeed.
I greatly appreciate those like Rick who do have the proper attitude towards such an awesome thing (our Lord, after all).
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Ali
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 12:32 pm |
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Dave Armstrong wrote: Somewhere the regulations say (couldn't tell ya where) that they are only to be used in rare circumstances of very large crowds.
My (liturgically traditional) parish doesn't have them at all.
Well, when is it ok and when is it not? Our two neighboring parish's share one priest. We have no deacons, or other ordained people, including nuns to help run either church or the school  So would the three weekend Mass (es?) Father serves be an appropriate place to use EM's? It seems to me this is what the rule was intended for. FWIW, he does not use them during a weekday or school Mass.
And now I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing  Cause I basically agree with what you are saying. Isn't it better, though, to have a reverent female EM over an irrevent male one? Of course it would, go ahead you can say it. LOL
I would really like to see more opinons and discussion about this
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 02:10 pm |
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Ali,
I agree. The EM thing confuses me too.
Like Dave says, they are for extraordinary circumstances, but overused in spite of the intention of this purpose.
It becomes a subjective judgment as to what 'extraordinary" means.
Are we talking about dire circumstances in a war prison? definitely.
How about assisting the overworked good priest working in many parishes, as you have? Probably.
This weekend on my RV trip to the beach, at Mass the priest, deacon, and seminarian sat while two female EMs distributed Holy Communion. The priest stands with difficulty, using a cane. Although he said Mass without that cane, I guess he chose not to distribute Holy Communion. However after Mass, he stood for quite a while greeting the congregation as they exited. This is understandable, but a little iffy. All subjective. Does this constitute an extraordinary situation?
Clearly though, most all of us witness way overused EMs in all our parishes.
Overuse of EMs, or any laymen in any circumstance, diminishes the role and office of the priest.
I wonder if there is an understood list of who takes precedence over whom. For instance, a consecrated deacon [deacons used to be only men preparing for the priesthood, a step in priestly orders] is better than a seminarian who is better than a layman who is better than a laywoman. This conjecture may offend those of politically correct leanings - I’m just guessing here.
Years ago, priests simply distributed Holy Communion themselves no matter how long it took. This, although hard on priests, especially in our times of shortages, removes all the monkeying around with subjective judgment and hurt feelings.
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 03:45 pm |
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Tina in Ashburn wrote: It becomes a subjective judgment as to what 'extraordinary" means.
The overuse of Extraordinary Ministers is generally covered by the pastoral instruction that they may be used as needed so that the mass is not "unduly prolonged." Are they overused? Absolutely. As one example, I know of a parish that "needs" four ministers, two for the cup and two for the hosts (including the priest; the second to take communion to the handicapped and the choir). They use eight: four host and four cup. The reason is to prevent "unduly prolonging" the mass by an additional five minutes or so. Still, it is within the right of the pastor to make such a decision, so we accept his judgment until such time as the Vatican and/or bishop tightens the rules.
This weekend on my RV trip to the beach, at Mass the priest, deacon, and seminarian sat while two female EMs distributed Holy Communion. The priest stands with difficulty, using a cane.
If the priest has difficulty standing, it is acceptable for him to defer distribution of communion. Unless the deacon has the same problem, he should not be sitting in deference to any unordained person. Unless the seminarian is an instituted acolyte, he is another Extraordinary Minister like any other.
I wonder if there is an understood list of who takes precedence over whom. For instance, a consecrated deacon [deacons used to be only men preparing for the priesthood, a step in priestly orders] is better than a seminarian who is better than a layman who is better than a laywoman. This conjecture may offend those of politically correct leanings - I’m just guessing here.
Actually, yes, there is. The bishop/priest should be first, followed by a deacon (who ordinarily ministers the cup), then an instituted acolyte, then a lay minister (male or female, although male ministers are given preference in some documents). An ordained man should never defer to a lay person unless there is a physical reason (illness or handicap) for him to do so.
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Rick Luquette
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 06:06 pm |
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Hi Ali,
Well, when is it ok and when is it not?
I don't know the details of how that works. But I know that, often when I am at other parishes, there are about ten eucharistic ministers when that is completely unnecessary by any reasonable criterion. A friend of mine who was crucial to my own conversion calls them, semi-humorously, "busybodies"). Things always seem to be overdone in these liturgical matters (sometimes, abuses). Lack of balance and sense and propriety (as well as reverence) is a huge problem in contemporary Catholicism as practiced.
Our two neighboring parish's share one priest. We have no deacons, or other ordained people, including nuns to help run either church or the school So would the three weekend Mass (es?) Father serves be an appropriate place to use EM's? It seems to me this is what the rule was intended for. FWIW, he does not use them during a weekday or school Mass.
I ain't the one to answer . . .
And now I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing Cause I basically agree with what you are saying.
Smart woman . . . JUST teasing . . .
Isn't it better, though, to have a reverent female EM over an irrevent male one? Of course it would, go ahead you can say it. LOL
Yes, of course!
And since we're being frank and open, I'd make the observation, too, that I was not pleased (well, at least not in the more spiritual portion of my nature) several months back when I had to take communion from a woman with great legs and an itty-bitty skirt. That was NOT what I wanted to see when I went up to receive Our Lord. So, reverent women: yes. Miniskirts? No. If a person can't understand why that would be objectionable in church to a red-blooded male like myself (and I suspect, many many others), then I question whether she has the proper credentials to be a eucharistic minister in the first place. It's absurd . . .
But then, this is in a parish where the organist is a known practicing homosexual, so I shouldn't be surprised.
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 06:14 pm |
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The reason is to prevent "unduly prolonging" the mass by an additional five minutes or so.
Needless to say, it is an insult to anyone's intelligence to assert that five minutes is "unduly prolonging" anything. Maybe that would apply to my 6yo daughter, but scarcely to any adult who doesn't have ADD. But this is our wonderful American culture: Mass too often reduced to the mentality (and mediocrity) of the fast food restaurant.
it is within the right of the pastor to make such a decision, so we accept his judgment until such time as the Vatican and/or bishop tightens the rules.
What "judgment" in this instance?!
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 08:57 pm |
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Dave Armstrong wrote: it is within the right of the pastor to make such a decision, so we accept his judgment until such time as the Vatican and/or bishop tightens the rules.
What "judgment" in this instance?!
Trust me, I'm not disagreeing with you, but until such time as the rules change, it is the pastor's decision. We don't have to like it and we are free to discuss it with him, but we must accept it. Such is the nature of the Church. If the Vatican gives discretion to the bishop and the bishop gives discretion to the pastor, then we as the faithful are free to disagree but not to disobey.
And that is one of the many ways God teaches us humility. 
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Robert
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 02:48 pm |
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Sometimes the discussion of EMHC gets distracted to the area of liturgical abuses, as it in some cases well should be.
In the US where communion in both species is generally practiced, I can see the practical need of EMHCs even in small parishes. Where I don’t feel comfortable is when –to exaggerate the point- there are more EMHCs than communicants. Here I’m very much opposed to the “busybodies” as Dave calls them.
In Germany it is customary to receive only in one species, the precious body (which is of course whole and complete). On an average Sunday there are about 200 people at Mass, and if Father is alone it takes him about 20 min to distribute Holy Communion, 10 min if he employs an EMHC which is the normal case.
What some folks just do not want to accept is:
a.) that the Jesus an EMHC holds in his/her hand is no different than the Jesus Father is holding in his.
b.) the practice is sanctioned and governed by the Catholic Church.
c.) in general a sacrilege requires intent.
Last edited on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 02:50 pm by Robert
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Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 03:58 pm |
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About laymen handling the Eucharist:
this just hot off the press
From a recent interview in L'Osservatore Romano of Guido Marini [the new Papal Master of Ceremonies who replaced Piero Marini] on the recent developments of practices by Pope Benedict XVI. Recently the Pope is returning to practices that "intend to emphasise the continuity of the liturgical celebration of today with that which has characterised the life of the Church in the past. "
Commenting on the latest, where Pope Benedict is giving Holy Communion on the tongue to kneeling recipients:
"...it must not be forgotten that the distribution of Communion in the hand still remains, from a juridical point of view, an indult [i.e. an exception] to the universal law, granted by the Holy See to those bishops' conferences who have requested it. The manner adopted by Benedict XVI aims to underline the validity of the norm valid for the whole Church. In addition one could perhaps even see a preference for using this manner of distribution which, without taking away anything from the other [manner], better highlights the truth of the Real Presence in the Eucharist, helps the devotion of the faithful, and introduces [them] more easily to the sense of the mystery. These are aspects which, in our time, pastorally speaking, it is urgent to stress and recover."
See the full article, which also references the Pope's wearing of the new papal pallium. In this context, Marini is describing this return to historical practices of the Church, including the Old Mass and the Summorum Pontificum ["to facilitate the achievement of "a reconciliation in the bosom of the Church" "].
http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2008/06/development-in-continuity-full.html
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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tassitus
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 07:12 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: ... As one example, I know of a parish that "needs" four ministers, two for the cup and two for the hosts (including the priest; the second to take communion to the handicapped and the choir). They use eight: four host and four cup. The reason is to prevent "unduly prolonging" the mass by an additional five minutes or so...
Greetings, all. I'm new in here. 
I am a member of a rather large parish - 2,200 families if I recall correctly. And I would estimate the number at any given mass to peak at about 400 parishioners, not all of whom receive communion.
It saddens me that we generally have at least 12-14 (mostly female, but not an issue for me) EMHCs on the altar for each Sunday mass, even those at which we have two priests (and maybe even one deacon) serving.
I can only compare this with another local parish (Holy Rosary Church and Dominican Priory in downtown Portland, Oregon) where I sometimes attend for a weekday noon mass. Perhaps 100 parishioners, yet only one priest distributing, on the tongue, at the altar rail.
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the latter is the better.
Peace all.
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JillD
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 07:37 pm |
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I haven't read every word here, and it doesn't exactly pertain to the discussion, but I would actually like it if the distribution took a few more minutes so that I could kneel in my pew and contemplate what has just taken place and to absorb and pray that the mind of Christ would fill my entire being, heart and soul. Too often, the final prayer comes too quickly when I would have savored a few more minutes. That's another reason I like to sit near the front, so that I have even more time to pray.
Is there a rough rule of thumb as to how many communicants there need to be to begin adding EM's?
Jill
____________________
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"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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tedjenczewski
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 08:18 pm |
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| Dear Ali: YES! YOU DO. Faith overcomes all things. Your witness to the truth will encourage all believers and assist us on our journey to salvation. God bless you.
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"...the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1Tim 3, 15
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