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Free
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 199 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 01:11 pm |
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I would appreciate a deeper discussion of how the sacrifice of the Eucharist continues the work of our redemption.
In reading paragraphs 1069-1070 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I was struck by this concept, and although I think I grasp it, I'd like it explained in greater depth, and especially in light of the Protestant way of thinking that Jesus' work on the cross achieved our redemption for us once and for all.
The specific words that jumped out at me this morning were these from paragraph 1069: "For it is in the liturgy, especially in the divine sacrifice of the Eucharist, that 'the work of of redemption is accomplished'" and from paragraph 1070: "through the liturgy Christ, our redeemer and high priest, continues the work of our redemption in, with, and through his Church."
Thank you!
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2037 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 02:26 pm |
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Hi Jane. The simplest explanation is that the Eucharistic celebration, the Mass as we call it, is a re-presentation in our time and place of the once-for-all sacrifice of Calvary in an unbloody manner. The Eucharist, which is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, now present on the altar as upon the cross, therefore makes present for us this very sacrifice in its singularity and particularity and imparts to us the benefits of it, which constitute our redemption. Compare with CCC 1088.
David
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lifetone
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | Harrisburg, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 76 |
| First Name: | Anne | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Methodist, Baptist, Wiccan/New Age, Pentecostal, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 01:27 pm |
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Hi Jane/Free,
A few weeks ago in Bible Study they have in another church one of the questions they asked was "In what ways is it to the disciples’ advantage that Jesus would go away and the Spirit of God would come?" referencing John 5. Followed by three lines to fill in the blanks. I find myself feeling the same as when I read that question. 
Not in a bad way but in a where do you start kind of way. I like what David said. Everytime I go to Mass there are different things I bring with me, different problems needing solutions, different stuff going on in my life and the lives of people I know or are praying for. Each time the Sacrifice of Jesus at Calvary is made present and speaks to those things and "redeems" them, taking all that I am and have and go through, which is a lot, and redeeming them, turning them to good.
I guess in large part this is one of those things where when I read the Catechism for me it was like They Get It! How this actually works! Good for them. And I'm not sure how to explain it more clearly..
Like right now I'm having this problem at work, lots of conflict and I was accused of doing something I didn't do and having these intentions of hurting someone which I don't have. And that's actually why I'm spending a bit of time posting on here these past few days, because I'm trying to Stay Out Of It. I'll take all of that to the Mass and join these things to the Cross, thinking of how Jesus was falsely accused, knowing that God may even allow it to go all the way and for me to even be convicted, maybe even lose my job (I have it much easier than Jesus actually - my workplace doesn't use crucifixion for punishment) but whatever happens He will redeem it. And I bring all of that to Him right now, but I'll bring it to Him especially at the Mass tomorrow..
Oh great I'm discussing personal problems. I took that poll yesterday. But the precise how is either ... what the Catechism said or intensely personal. It's all that and more.
Hope this helps. Object lesson. I'm like about to cry. Despite my trying to be careful due to slipping up I was just warned I might lose my job if I didn't watch myself better.. Great. Object lesson. I'll bring it to Him and join it to the Cross. What else you gonna do?
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Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 199 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jun 11th, 2008 11:19 pm |
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Okay, I've done some word studies on "redemption" and "salvation." Protestants define these nearly separately, while Catholics tend to see them as one (in fact when I looked up "salvation" in a Catholic theology dictionary that I own, it said "see redemption.")
To summarize what I think the word studies taught me: Salvation has more to do with being freed from sin by trusting in Christ, and Redemption has to do with being bought back from devil, with the blood of Jesus serving as the price of our redemption. Yet separating out one from the other is really impossible as it is all interwoven and whole together, along with the concept of Reconciliation with God.
On my journey in the Church, I grasped the three-fold time-dimensional concept of salvation: we are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.
It seems that redemption has the same three time dimensions: we are redeemed, we are being redeemed, and we will be redeemed.
Jesus saving, redemptive work on the cross in the objective sense happened once in history, yet he provided a subjective way for each generation to personally receive the benefits of his objective work through the Liturgy of the Church, which is the point at which time and timelessness touch.
I am redeemed, I am continually being redeemed at Mass through the timeless application of Christ's work on the cross, and I will be redeemed if I persevere in the Body of Christ to the end.
Does this seem about right, David?
Thanks.
Jane
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2037 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 12th, 2008 12:22 am |
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I hadn’t heard it put quite like that before, Jane, but I think it will do well enough as a quick illustration of what “continuing redemption” is all about.
David
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