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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 12:47 pm |
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I think I have the understanding that the only thing taht makes a person unable to receive the Eucharist is if they are aware of any grave and unconfessed sins. That they are possibly or probably in a state of mortal sin. But are there other sins (such as abortion, or co-habitating) that also excluse someobdy from the Eucharist automatically?
The reason I ask (and not that I want to get into another conversation about full knowledge) is that in this day and age people do not seem to necessarily know that they have committed a grave sin. They simply disagree, or are ignorant of teaching. But one of the conditions for mortal sin is thast you have knowledge that what you are doing is wrong and do it anyway. What of those who live together but really think it is ok. Or homosexuals who just simply think God made them that way and is not displeased with them? What about those who skip mass a lot but just do not believe that going to mass every week is considered important?
There are probably plenty of people out there like that. And I am not trying to defend any of them or those practices, my question is if certain sins automatically exclude, or if it always depends on the personal details of there situation?
I wonder if they would be excluded from communion because to be in a state of mortal sin, I thought you had to at least somewhat be choosing against what you had knowledge of to be right. So if you truly believe that it is ok to do or believe these things, than how could you be in a state of mortal sin?
For instance, there may be sin in my life that I do not even see yet. What if there is something a person who tries to be a faithful Catholic does that is gravely wrong but nobody has ever explained the matter to him or her? Maybe it is a more subtle matter or something that he or she fails to see the effect of. Still, they are performing a grave sin, but without conviction that there is anything wrong, therfore if they repent as soon as they understand it I would think they never were in a state of sin.
Though I suppose a lot of people in the earlier category it would seem the problem is that they really are not converted, and it seems weird to me that they would be receiving communion anyway, when they are not interested in what their religion teaches or do not accpet it as truth, and part of me thinks that that should be a requirement for receiving is that the person actually is united to the family of faith in belief or tries to be. This is possibly why we recite the creed after all. So is it a requirment in another sense to believe what the church teaches (to the best of your ability to understand it) to receive?
Brian
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 04:12 pm |
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Being in the state of mortal sin, or what amounts to the same thing, having committed a grave sin which carries an ecclesiastical penalty (whether in itself — what we call latae sententiae — or through a bishop’s positive action), severs one’s connection with God and prevents one from effectively receiving the Eucharist or any other sacrament except (with suitable repentance) the sacrament of reconciliation.
I think we tend to make too much of the subjective element in sin. Unless he has utterly silenced his conscience (a grave sin in itself), a person knows in his heart when he has violated God’s law gravely. For him to rationalize and explain away that sin by saying that “I don’t think it’s a sin” is just another falsehood which he will have to answer for at the judgment.
There may be sin in my life that I do not even see yet.
This is true. However, “unknown” sins are mostly venial just because they are not grave matter. Otherwise we would recognize them; we certainly do when they are manifested in others.
So is it a requirement in another sense to believe what the church teaches (to the best of your ability to understand it) to receive?
Faith is a requirement for being a Christian. (Aren’t you glad it is a gift?) What we do with that faith once we possess it determines our worthiness.
David
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rose may
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| Joined: | Tue Aug 28th, 2007 |
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| First Name: | rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | long circuitous route to Catholicism |
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Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 05:29 pm |
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So is it a requirement in another sense to believe what the church teaches (to the best of your ability to understand it) to receive?
I think this is an interesting question. There are probably a lot of cradle catholics who recieve communion out of habit, not really believing in or even really knowing what their faith is about.
In a current situation I am dealing with, a friend is involved in grave sin but doesn't believe he's doing anything wrong. In conversations I've had with him he has told me he is offended by parts of the mass (like saying "Lord, I am not worthy to recieve You") and yet takes communion faithfully each week. I'm sure he is not exceptional in this.
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David W. Emery
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 08:35 pm |
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rose may wrote:In a current situation I am dealing with, a friend is involved in grave sin but doesn't believe he's doing anything wrong. In conversations I've had with him he has told me he is offended by parts of the mass (like saying "Lord, I am not worthy to recieve You") and yet takes communion faithfully each week. I'm sure he is not exceptional in this.
Not at all exceptional. But take a good look at what he is doing. He is not ignorant; he knows the commandments full well. But here he is denying in Jesus’ very face the existence of his own sin. He is daring God to “do something about it,” because he is determined to act as he pleases.
He “doesn’t believe” that he is sinning. Oh, he believes, all right, just as Satan believes — and inwardly trembles (cf. James 2:19), knowing perfectly well why he is in hell.
David
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heardclarke
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 199 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Episcopalian; confirmed RC Easter 2005 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 16th, 2007 06:55 pm |
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I used to feel a bit indignant at the words "Lord, I am not worthy to receive You," when I was an Episcopalian attending a Catholic mass. I had asked if I could receive and been told no (with kindness.)
This indignation was because (a) I did not understand what the Blessed Sacrament was and (b) I did not understand that I was indeed in a state of mortal sin (I mean, in addition to not being Catholic).
Now that I understand it, I try to explain carefully to Episcopalian friends, but guess what--they still appear to feel like I used to. Whereas I have days now when I feel I should not take Communion--maybe I have been distracted or I'm irritable or I just don't feel ready.
Never mind that, though. What is really awesome is to see the second graders (7-8 years old) making their first Confession and First Communion. They know a miracle when they see one! One of my little students said Friday after Benediction, "You have to see it with your heart." Moments like that are what it's all about in Catholic school.
Love, Lisa
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Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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Grace2U
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| Joined: | Thu Jul 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Oslo, Norway |
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| First Name: | Inga | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Calvinist, briefly ICOC (the Boston movement), Pentecostal, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Sep 17th, 2007 11:34 am |
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heardclarke wrote: I used to feel a bit indignant at the words "Lord, I am not worthy to receive You," when I was an Episcopalian attending a Catholic mass.
Wow, I never thought anyone felt this way. I for my part love these words, because the way I see it, I am not worthy to receive communion, never have been, and in absolute terms never will be.
I am not a Catholic yet, so I would only go forward for a blessing - and it's such a wonderful privilege, but I was wondering about this worthiness thing. Because everyone participated of the Last Supper, even Judas, and, apart from Jesus, noone was worthy...
I thought that was why in most Protestant churches everyone was invited to receive the communion or whatever they called it, while for Catholics the communion was also a sign of unity of the body of Christ under one head, which sadly is not the case, so it is impossible to proclaim what does not exist, and when one does not conform to the Church discipline, he cannot receive communion... I am not stating the obvious, the real presence of Christ in the consecrated species, because I just wanted to discuss this thought trail on worthiness. But of course, I pray every time during the communion that the Lord guides me into fuller understanding of the nature of His presence in itLast edited on Mon Sep 17th, 2007 04:10 pm by Grace2U
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heardclarke
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 199 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Episcopalian; confirmed RC Easter 2005 |
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Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2007 12:16 am |
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I guess that is a sign of how "lost" I was. I thought I was OK without the Church. I thought it was really just me and God. I knew I had let Him down sometimes, that I had let my family down. But I'd given up striving "to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect."
Now I pray at each Eucharist that I will be given the gift of experiencing through faith that Presence which my eyes and ears cannot perceive. (To paraphrase St. Thomas Aquinas.) Sometimes I can feel it, and sometimes I have to say, "I know You are right here -- even when my emotions do not know you are here.":?
I had to be around people who were already living this way before I could realize that they had something powerful in their spiritual life that I did not have--and I could not share it except through the Catholic faith. We could talk about it, which was fun, but until I could profess it with them, we would be separate. The time came when I could no longer say no to any of it. I had to become a part of the Church.
The hardest thing is to be at Mass and know that for whatever reason I need to refrain from receiving communion--maybe because I just ate, or I need to go to Confession. It doesn't happen very often, but there have been a few times. It is a good discipline, though. I get a blessing and make up my mind to be ready the next time.
Lisa
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Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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Grace2U
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| Joined: | Thu Jul 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Oslo, Norway |
| Posts: | 21 |
| First Name: | Inga | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Calvinist, briefly ICOC (the Boston movement), Pentecostal, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2007 10:42 am |
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| Oh yes, I think many have given up striving to be perfect, me including... Not that anyone can do it on their own, but the thing is that God is worth absolutely everything - He is the greatest treasure, the sole purpose of our strife, the light that guides our way, and every sin darkens this light. God made us perfect, I know that he wants me to be perfect, because the closer I am to Him, the happier I become. I think the freedom that the Church is leading me to is absolutely amazing
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