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3John4
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| Joined: | Tue Feb 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
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| First Name: | Dede | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic, Protestant, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 07:53 pm |
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My husband (who is protestant) says that he has talked to quite a few people who've told him there is a significant number of Catholic priests who will serve communion, knowingly, to protestants. This really pushed my buttons, and I told him that would go against the teaching of the Church. Does anyone know if there is really anything more than a few rebellious priests doing this?
What brought this up was that we were discussing going on a tour of Israel which includes daily mass. Dh said he wanted to know if the priest on the trip woud serve him communion, otherwise he wasn't interested in attending the masses. (I can't really understand why he'd WANT to receive communion from a priest anyway, since he flatly rejects transsubstantiation.)
Thanks,
Dede
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5350 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 08:33 pm |
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3John4 wrote: My husband (who is protestant) says that he has talked to quite a few people who've told him there is a significant number of Catholic priests who will serve communion, knowingly, to protestants.
Define "significant". I have no doubt there are some, maybe even as many as 1-2%, but I certainly wouldn't call that number "significant".
Many priests will not refuse communion to a Protestant who presents himself in the communion line but will instead seek out the person after mass and attempt to catechize him. EMHC's are instructed not to deny communion to anyone unless specifically instructed to do so, but to bring any concerns to the priest after mass. Once a person is informed that it is not proper for anyone but a practicing Catholic in a state of grace to receive the Eucharist, it is on them to follow the teachings of our Savior's Church.
There is no doubt that a Protestant (or, for that matter, a Catholic who denies basic tenets of the faith) who persistently insists on presenting himself for communion after being informed of the Church's teachings, should be denied communion.
There are certain unique circumstances where a Protestant who wishes to receive Eucharist in critical circumstances (such as in danger of death) may be admitted to the sacrament, but the first requirement is that he demonstrate a Catholic understanding of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Obviously, your husband is not a candidate for this exemption.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 11:56 pm |
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3John4 wrote:I can't really understand why he'd WANT to receive communion from a priest anyway, since he flatly rejects transsubstantiation.
I’ve run into this paradoxical situation on a good number of occasions. He wants to prove that, as a Protestant, he is just as much a Christian and just as worthy as any Catholic.
Your husband evidently doesn’t realize that the Catholic Church officially recognizes anyone who is validly baptized as Christian. The limitation of the sacraments (other than baptism and marriage) to Catholics served by Catholic priests is a matter of canon law, not dogma, and addresses the matter of the lack of unity (one sense of “communion”) in ecclesial body, beliefs, sacraments and other essentials. As you say, if your husband doesn’t believe that the wafer is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ, risen and eternally living, then it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for him to partake of it. Canon law just puts the period at the end of the sentence.
David
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BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 827 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 08:19 am |
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I am an EMHC and I have regulars in my line who impress me as not being a member OR they were not taught properly. They don't hold their hands properly, they don"t say "Amen" or they may grunt instead of speaking. I have been thinking of running for Church Council and then, if I win, bring the topic up as a suggestion for a topic of a future homily.
Also, I can understand why a non-member would want to receive. One type of person might want to receive because they had been told they were not allowed to receive. Then there is the type of person who believes in that part of the Church's teachings. From my own studies, I came to believe in the elements of communion and wanted to receive long before I started RCIA. 
Last edited on Tue Aug 7th, 2007 08:31 am by BodRod
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 09:10 am |
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BodRod wrote:From my own studies, I came to believe in the elements of communion and wanted to receive long before I started RCIA.
Yes, but you respected those elements, whereas the other doesn’t. He wants to be seen before men (cf. Matthew 6:5; 23:5). His defiance, then, is not a longing for God but a matter of self image.
Just curious: Why would you have to be on the church council to suggest that communicants have more respect for their Lord in the Eucharist, or that a homily might help to remind them? Doesn’t the pastor talk to anyone else?
David
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BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
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| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 09:39 am |
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David W. Emery wrote: BodRod wrote:.
Just curious: Why would you have to be on the church council to suggest that communicants have more respect for their Lord in the Eucharist, or that a homily might help to remind them? Doesn’t the pastor talk to anyone else?
I have thought about that myself. I am involved in several ministries and Father knows me by my first name, so I have considered speaking to him directly about it. I think part of my hesitancy to speak up comes from my "working days" when a couple of bosses suggested that I was a carrier for ulcers. I want to secure cooperation rather than resistance. 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Annie
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| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 10:09 am |
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David W. Emery wrote: BodRod wrote:From my own studies, I came to believe in the elements of communion and wanted to receive long before I started RCIA.
Yes, but you respected those elements, whereas the other doesn’t. He wants to be seen before men (cf. Matthew 6:5; 23:5). This may not always be true and your division of people into such sharply delineated groups seems too judgmental to me. There is a group of people who are in fact in agreement with all the Church's teachings yet are barred from membership for various reasons, health issues, etc. They know they are taking communion illicitly and figure God understands even if the Church doesn't as there is much scriptural support for God and His Son telling people to be careful about man made rules for religious practices. This is not "being seen before men" because the Church doesn't know that they are not members of the Church. They look like any other Catholic. What the Church needs to do is look for these people and catechize them properly and get them into official membership somehow.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 12:24 pm |
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Annie, I realize there are non-Catholics who believe in the sacraments and in their ignorance of Church law have received them illicitly; I have dealt with several of them personally. However, in this thread we are treating of a specific situation involving people who do not believe in the Eucharist.
You will also note that I mentioned that the prohibition which applies to non-Catholics receiving the sacraments is set forth in canon law, not in dogma. There are allowances in canon law for certain exceptions.
I am not sure what you are referring to, however, when you mention “barred from membership” and “health issues.” I am not aware that anyone is ever barred by the Church from being or becoming Catholic; any impediment is always external to the Church. Perhaps you can provide examples of what you mean here.
David
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Annie
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| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 12:27 pm |
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| You're right the thread started by talking about people who do not believe in the true nature of the Blessed Sacrament.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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3John4
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| Joined: | Tue Feb 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
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| First Name: | Dede | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic, Protestant, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2007 10:44 am |
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I asked my parish priest about this today. He said he doesn't deny the Eucharist to anyone, knowing that they are Protestant. His thinking is that it is between each person and God, just as it is between each pro-abortion politician and God.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be comfortable having my husband attend mas with me, knowing he was going to go forward to take the Eucharist while believing it is nothing more than a symbol.
Dede
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2007 12:38 pm |
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3John4 wrote: Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be comfortable having my husband attend mas with me, knowing he was going to go forward to take the Eucharist while believing it is nothing more than a symbol.
I agree with you, Dede.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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