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brian
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| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 11:42 pm |
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| From what I learned the age of confirmation has changed and can change from period to period and various cultures. I had been looking at confirmation as like, a decision to formerly accept your faith/baptism, but I read that it is not like that. That it is more a sacrament that initiates you fully into the life of the church and confers some sort of filling of the Holy Spirit (though somehow this already took place at baptism, kind of confusing?) but it is not like a time to choose to personally follw, because that is what Easter and renewing baptism is for, and really, any age might be too young for that serious of a decision. So is this correct that it is not like a personal owning? does that mean it should not bother me as much if kids are doing it for the wrong reasons or just being forced into it or going along with it?
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David W. Emery
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| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 12:36 am |
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The idea of “formal acceptance” is Protestant in orgin, based on a mistaken paradigm of conversion replacing sacrament. The Catholic notion of confirmation is sacramental, viewing it as an avenue of grace.
Yes, we receive the Holy Spirit in baptism. But the Catechism makes this apt comparison: the graces of baptism are as of new life from the Spirit, whereas those of confirmation are as of growth and strengthening in the Spirit (cf. CCC 1275). It goes on to explain the purpose of confirmation in this wise:
CCC 1308 Although Confirmation is sometimes called the “sacrament of Christian maturity,” we must not confuse adult faith with the adult age of natural growth, nor forget that the baptismal grace is a grace of free, unmerited election and does not need “ratification” to become effective. St. Thomas reminds us of this:
Age of body does not determine age of soul. Even in childhood man can attain spiritual maturity: as the book of Wisdom says: “For old age is not honored for length of time, or measured by number of years. “Many children, through the strength of the Holy Spirit they have received, have bravely fought for Christ even to the shedding of their blood.
Again in CCC 1285, it quotes the Second Vatican Council: “By the sacrament of Confirmation, [the baptized] are more perfectly bound to the Church and are enriched with a special strength of the Holy Spirit. Hence they are, as true witnesses of Christ, more strictly obliged to spread and defend the faith by word and deed.”
Does that mean it should not bother me as much if kids are doing it for the wrong reasons or just being forced into it or going along with it?
Any Christian should rightfully be concerned about children and adolescents turning away from the faith. It bothers me when anyone leaves his faith behind and begins to walk according to the ways of the world. The least I can do is pray for him, since he is unlikely to pray for himself.
David
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 803 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 01:20 am |
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| Well, yes, I care a great deal for them and their conversion. What I meant was, that it is not like they are making a mockery of the sacrament by going through it even when maybe they disagree, because it is not what I had earlier assumed that it was. Obviously, I would want all to love Jesus and the church, but I was just saying that the purpose of the sacrament is not them personally making a lifelong faith commitment, so it is ok if they are confirmed even if they have a long way to go, or maybe are not 100% sure yet personally of their faith.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 01:37 am |
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Well, yes, I care a great deal for them and their conversion.
I know you do. You’ve served them for years. That wouldn’t happen if you didn’t care.
I was just saying that the purpose of the sacrament is not them personally making a lifelong faith commitment, so it is ok if they are confirmed even if they have a long way to go, or maybe are not 100% sure yet personally of their faith.
Isn’t this everybody’s position in life? What makes these kids more susceptible to corruption is that they really would rather be “doing their own thing.” You know, self will rather than “thy will be done.” Later in life they may come to understand these things a bit better, but right now what they sorely need is a little of that grace from the sacraments. Unfortunately for them, sacramental doctrine says that the benefit one gains from the sacraments is directly proportional to one’s faith and willingness to be led by the Spirit. This is why our prayers are so important.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 01:46 am |
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brian wrote: Well, yes, I care a great deal for them and their conversion. What I meant was, that it is not like they are making a mockery of the sacrament by going through it even when maybe they disagree, because it is not what I had earlier assumed that it was.
The constant practice in the Eastern Churches is to perform all three Mysteries (Sacraments) of Initiation (Baptism, Eucharist, and Chrismation) at the same time, so even infants are chrismated.
The Western Church developed differently. The Sacraments of Initiation were traditionally separated so that infants were baptized, children at the age of reason received first Eucharist, and older children were confirmed.
Today, in some areas in the Latin Church, the "original order" of the sacraments has been returned, and first Eucharist and Confirmation take place at the same time, at approximately the age of reason (around 7).
Our Church teaches us that all of these practices are valid. The exact timing of the sacraments is a matter of discipline in the various Churches, and great flexibility is given to the local bishop to determine the timing in his diocese.
In the Latin Church, the age of administration is controlled by Canon Law:
Can. 889 §1. Every baptized person not yet confirmed and only such a person is capable of receiving confirmation.
§2. To receive confirmation licitly outside the danger of death requires that a person who has the use of reason be suitably instructed, properly disposed, and able to renew the baptismal promises.
Can. 890 The faithful are obliged to receive this sacrament at the proper time. Parents and pastors of souls, especially pastors of parishes, are to take care that the faithful are properly instructed to receive the sacrament and come to it at the appropriate time.
Can. 891 The sacrament of confirmation is to be conferred on the faithful at about the age of discretion unless the conference of bishops has determined another age, or there is danger of death, or in the judgment of the minister a grave cause suggests otherwise.
So it is left to the conference of bishops and to the ordinary minister of the sacrament (the bishop) to determine when a person who has the use of reason is suitably instructed and properly disposed, and has reached the age of discretion, which would indicate the age at which a person has the ability to make the choice on their own to receive the sacrament.
(The proper name of the Sacrament in the Latin Church is "Confirmation". In the Eastern Churches, the sacraments are known as "mysteries" and Confirmation is known as "Chrismation" after the Sacred Chrism used in the anointing.)
Obviously, I would want all to love Jesus and the church, but I was just saying that the purpose of the sacrament is not them personally making a lifelong faith commitment, so it is ok if they are confirmed even if they have a long way to go, or maybe are not 100% sure yet personally of their faith.
The purpose of a sacrament is to give grace. A confirmed Catholic has accepted a higher standard of faith to which they will be held accountable if they truly understand the commitment they are making. However, Confirmation does not mark the end of their faith journey, which begins at baptism and does not end until they stand in the presence of the Most High God.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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brian
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 01:58 am |
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| I am confused, because is it something that they should personally decide to enter into after discenring its meaning and the commitment it involves? It seems that the purpose of the sacrament is to give grace moreso than to be like an official acceptance of church membership, but it also seems to be something that the person should turn down if he or she is not being serious about it, or knows that he or she does not believe in?
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 09:38 am |
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brian wrote: I am confused, because is it something that they should personally decide to enter into after discenring its meaning and the commitment it involves? It seems that the purpose of the sacrament is to give grace moreso than to be like an official acceptance of church membership, but it also seems to be something that the person should turn down if he or she is not being serious about it, or knows that he or she does not believe in?
Yes, that is correct. From the Catechism:
1319 A candidate for Confirmation who has attained the age of reason must profess the faith, be in the state of grace, have the intention of receiving the sacrament, and be prepared to assume the role of disciple and witness to Christ, both within the ecclesial community and in temporal affairs.
So a candidate who is not ready should decline the sacrament.
Read the Catechism sections 1285-1321 for a full explanation.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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