 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 799 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 04:06 am |
|
| When did the 2 apostle's receive baptism? Did they receive John's and then Jesus at some later point? And when may that have been that they received the saving Trinitarian baptism? Do all the same rules apply to them or do they get special treatment since they were the initiators of our faith?
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5312 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 04:16 am |
|
brian wrote: When did the 2 apostle's receive baptism? Did they receive John's and then Jesus at some later point? And when may that have been that they received the saving Trinitarian baptism? Do all the same rules apply to them or do they get special treatment since they were the initiators of our faith?
Honest answer, Brian: We don't know. Their baptism is not recorded in scripture, which is not surprising since the gospels are not their story, but the story of Jesus.
We could say they received the Baptism of Desire, since they certainly wished to be Jesus' disciples, or the Baptism of Blood since all but John died for the faith. But they may well have been baptized by Jesus. We don't know.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 437 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 02:30 pm |
|
brian wrote: When did the 2 apostle's receive baptism? Did they receive John's and then Jesus at some later point? And when may that have been that they received the saving Trinitarian baptism? Do all the same rules apply to them or do they get special treatment since they were the initiators of our faith?
Do you mean the 12 apostles or were you concerned only with 2 specific ones? I'm not sure this is the answer, but I think it comes pretty dern close. My guess is that Jesus baptized the twelve and then they went on baptizing the other disciples. Just a guess, mind.
From John 3:
After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized.
Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were constantly coming to be baptized.
(This was before John was put in prison.)
An argument developed between some of John's disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing.
They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan–the one you testified about–well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”
To this John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven.
You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ but am sent ahead of him.’
The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom's voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete.
He must become greater; I must become less.
From John 4:
The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John,
although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
(emphasis mine)
Last edited on Tue Mar 4th, 2008 02:33 pm by Kim M.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Parodyonlife
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | Corning, New York USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
| First Name: | John | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | NEW CATHOLIC!!! W( ) ( )T!!! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 03:19 pm |
|
Kim M. wrote: brian wrote: When did the 2 apostle's receive baptism? Did they receive John's and then Jesus at some later point? And when may that have been that they received the saving Trinitarian baptism? Do all the same rules apply to them or do they get special treatment since they were the initiators of our faith?
Do you mean the 12 apostles or were you concerned only with 2 specific ones? I'm not sure this is the answer, but I think it comes pretty dern close. My guess is that Jesus baptized the twelve and then they went on baptizing the other disciples. Just a guess, mind.
From John 3:
After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized.
Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were constantly coming to be baptized.
(This was before John was put in prison.)
An argument developed between some of John's disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing.
They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan–the one you testified about–well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”
To this John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven.
You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ but am sent ahead of him.’
The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom's voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete.
He must become greater; I must become less.
From John 4:
The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John,
although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
(emphasis mine)
She is asking When the Apostles were baptized not when the apostles baptized others. Its not in the bible...
Last edited on Tue Mar 4th, 2008 03:20 pm by Parodyonlife
____________________
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 437 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 03:29 pm |
|
Parodyonlife wrote:She is asking When the Apostles were baptized not when the apostles baptized others. Its not in the bible...
What I was trying to say was that Jesus was baptizing along with John, so it is possible that, since the disciples were with Him that He may have baptized them then. Like I said, it's a guess, but hopefully an educated one. 
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Parodyonlife
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | Corning, New York USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
| First Name: | John | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | NEW CATHOLIC!!! W( ) ( )T!!! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 04:24 pm |
|
mmk. i bet you it happened around those times to. I thought you didnt get the Question xD.
____________________
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 437 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 05:01 pm |
|
Parodyonlife wrote: mmk. i bet you it happened around those times to. I thought you didnt get the Question xD.
I probably shouldn't have quoted so much, and bolding the last part probably confused. I was trying to make a two-part point.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
Parodyonlife
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | Corning, New York USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
| First Name: | John | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | NEW CATHOLIC!!! W( ) ( )T!!! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 05:35 pm |
|
Not your fault i didn't read the whole thing before i posted. I read the top and the bottom
____________________
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 437 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 05:37 pm |
|
Parodyonlife wrote: Not your fault i didn't read the whole thing before i posted. I read the top and the bottom
Hey, I'm guilty of the same thing. Too much stuff out for us to read, eh? 
Last edited on Tue Mar 4th, 2008 05:41 pm by Kim M.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5312 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 05:44 pm |
|
Kim M. wrote: Too much stuff out for us to read, eh?
It would greatly cut down on the amount to read if we all made it a habit to edit quotes to just include the relevant points we're replying to!
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 437 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 06:16 pm |
|
CajunRick wrote: It would greatly cut down on the amount to read if we all made it a habit to edit quotes to just include the relevant points we're replying to!
Guilty as charged!  Not always easy. Using Firefox on this board has been a bit of a buggaboo, but I'll try and improve my editing skills. I just hate using Internet Explorer. But I have to to do certain things here on it (like linking).
But I will defend myself in my initial response. I was trying to keep the context, but probably failed miserably. 
And even though it LOOKS like I never leave this place, ahem, I actually do a lot of "post and run" kinda stuff. This place is like a magnet!  But being that I post and run, I sometimes am a bit sloppy. Sorry, Cajun Man!
Last edited on Tue Mar 4th, 2008 06:16 pm by Kim M.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 799 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 06:17 pm |
|
I found an article about it from Catholic Encyclopedia. Seems there are multiple theories but they favor that it is somehow before Jesus died. Thoguh it could be after. The reason for the trouble, is that they received other sacraments like Holy Orders and the Eucharist without any recording of having been baptized, and as Catholics we teach that baptism need come first. So, either because they were so close to Jesus, He was free to break the rules with them or do things as He saw best, or they were baptized while He was alive and we do not know it. But the problem is that (though in eternity there is no time) he had not died yet and the Holy Spirit had not come in the sense that it would on Pentecost, so how could they receive Trinitarian baptism? But perhaps, it is just one of those things we trust that even what we do not know, God obviously made no mistakes and took care of things exactly as they needed to be taken care of. I am just curious if there is a good answer. I think Augustine dealt with it, but I was not sure I understood the answer or not.
Brian
|
|
|
Current time is 05:20 am | |
|
|
|
|
|
