 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Kayla
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Emmitsburg, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 369 |
| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 01:17 am |
|
[[So, as y'all know, I've been wanting/needing to write/research something or another... and I was kind of struck by a thought, so I decided to go ahead and write a brief commentary on this passage from the Gospel of Matthew. Tell me what you think. It's short, so an easy read.]]
Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit; and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to send her away quietly. But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit; she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matthew 1:18-21
Joseph was truly in a unique situation. Consider what he must have been going through: He had a first hand account of the holiness, sanctity, and beauty of the Blessed Virgin Mary. He knew her purity, yet, his eyes told him that what he knew of this woman could not be true: for she was with child. Mary had not told him of her experience with the angel or the fiat she had given. He did not know “the whole story,” as we would say today. His experience told him two contradictory things—one that Mary was a holy and pure woman and another that she was with child and that child was not his. Confused as to what to do, Joseph decided to “put her away quietly.”
Is that not what a lot of Christians do today, both non-Catholic and Catholic alike? They are presented with the miraculous person of the Blessed Mother and unsure what to make of her, they decide to “put her away quietly”. That’s not to say that their concerns, like Joseph’s, are not valid ones. God works in mysterious ways that often do not make sense to man. When Christ taught the people that He would give them His flesh and blood as food and drink they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” John 6:60. Even Peter could not understand the ways of the Lord. After asking His disciples who they thought He was, and after Peter’s profession that Jesus is the Christ, Jesus began to show them that He must suffer and die. Peter rebuked Jesus for teaching such and Jesus said to him, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you are not thinking as God does, but as men do” Matthew 16:23. We do not think as God thinks! We do not understand his ways.
We may be forced to ask: Who can fully understand the mystery of Salvation? Paul tells us in his letter to the Ephesians, “He [God] has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth” Ephesians 1:9-10.
We cannot understand the mystery of God’s will on our own; just as Joseph, in his human reason alone, could not understand the great mystery taking place in the Blessed Virgin. Joseph needed the intervention of God to comprehend; so do we. The angel appeared to Joseph and told him not to fear, but take the Blessed Mother into his house, for the child in her womb was conceived of the Holy Spirit.
In the same way, the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, tells us not to fear, but to take Mary into our own homes, for what is revealed through her is conceived of the Holy Spirit. The four Marian dogmas (Mary as Mother of God, the Immaculate Conception, the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, and the Assumption) are all Christocentric. All that Catholics believe of the Blessed Mother points us towards Christ. Mary magnifies the mystery of Christ.
Yet, so many try to “put her away quietly”, afraid to explore her role in our salvation. Do not be afraid to take the Blessed Mother into your homes, into your hearts! All the she is she has received in grace from God. All that is revealed in her is conceived of the Holy Spirit. Learn about the Blessed Virgin. Follow the example of St. Joseph and take her into your home, trusting in God and His mysterious ways.
Last edited on Fri May 16th, 2008 01:18 am by Kayla
____________________
I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
http://kayla23mount.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
EMarshallBuckles
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 656 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 03:56 am |
|
Kayla, I think that is a great thought, and a sad one, that many protestants and even some Catholics do "try to put Mary away quietly". As even some protestant theologians have started to feel, we do need to pay more attention to Mary and give greater honor to her and to what she did in humble cooperation with God. When one allows oneself to ponder just what she did, it is an awesome thought of a human being, a young Jewish woman in a far province of Rome at the time, being used by God in such a cosmic, utterly awesome way and, likewise, Joseph and the two of them protecting and nurturing Jesus. To borrow a line from a Christmas song, of recent popularlity, "Mary Did You Know?" (to which I answer, "YES! She SURE DID KNOW!!") "...when you've kissed this little baby, you've KISSED THE FACE OF GOD!!" - as they surely did realize! Even so, while protestants DO need to "take Mary into our homes" instead of "putting her away quietly", I also think that many protestants still struggle with the fear of "giving Mary too much honor". There is a sort of gentle, affectionately humorous image in my mind, of my dear Catholic brothers and sisters arriving in heaven, seeing our Lord and Savior Jesus there and saying, "Oh! HI JESUS!!! It is so WONDERFUL to finally see You face to face! Give me just a minute, here! I just wanna run over and see Mary!" while our Lord patiently waits, smiling indulgently and winking at the protestants waiting in line!  Learning vastly more about my Catholic brothers and sisters as I have, occasionally I have talked with family members and others about the Catholic Church and they do regard you as brothers and sisters in Christ yet this idea of "worshiping Mary" still persists and they still struggle with the idea of praying to Mary and to other Saints. I share all this by saying that highly intelligent people like our good Kayla, the Dave's, CajunRick, Marcus and others in the Catholic Church need to put your brilliant minds together and some up with new ways in which you can approach protestants, helping them to understand how the Catholic Church truly regards Mary, Joseph and other Saints as well as other aspects of Catholic teaching. Maybe you need some advertising experts and marketing experts to help "sell these ideas" to your protestant brethren!  How's that for a summer challenge, Kayla?!
|
|
|
EMarshallBuckles
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 656 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 04:05 am |
|
Mark Lowry - Mary Did You Know lyrics
Mary did you know that your baby boy would some day walk on water?
Mary did you know that your baby boy would save our sons and daughters?
Did you know that your baby boy has come to make you new?
This child that you've delivered, will soon deliver you.
Mary did you know that your baby boy would give sight to a blind man?
Mary did you know that your baby boy would calm a storm with his hand?
Did you know that your baby boy has walked where angels trod?
And when your kiss your little baby, you have kissed the face of God.
Oh Mary did you know---
The blind will see, the deaf will hear, the dead will live again.
The lame will leap, the dumb will speak, the praises of the lamb---.
Mary did you know that your baby boy is Lord of all creation?
Mary did you know that your baby boy would one day rule the nations?
Did you know that your baby boy is heaven's perfect Lamb?
This sleeping child you're holding is the great--I--- AM---.
Lyrics provided by LyricsMode.comAttachment: HolyFamily.jpg (Downloaded 58 times)
|
|
|
Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 269 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 10:56 am |
|
An excellent commentary, Kayla. I suspect it would prick my conscience or even convict my spirit if I were not already in love with our Blessed Mother. When I was still a Protestant, the words in the Bible that pricked my conscience about Mary were her own words in the Magnificat: "Every generation will call me blessed." When had I ever called her "blessed?" When had I ever heard a sermon in which she was called "blessed?" Never and never. That was my start of studying the Scriptures to learn all I could about her, and also the start of my shyly calling her "blessed."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
|
|
|
Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 269 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 11:11 am |
|
Marshall, the song you quote struck me powerfully as a Protestant, and yet as a Catholic I take issue with it.
The song implies that Mary didn't know that the child she would bear was the Son of God, and yet Scripture tells us differently. The angel Gabriel tells Mary, even before she has agreed to accept the honor and responsibility of the pregnancy, that the baby will be "the Son of the Most High" (Luke 1:32) and that the "holy one to be born will be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35).
I'm glad Mark Lowry wrote the song, and glad that the radio stations play it, yet it is certainly framed in Protestant terms -- that Mary was an unknowing participant. Many Protestants never think about how Mary was prepared from the beginning to receive the Son of God into her womanly womb. They have never heard sermons showing the relationship between how perfectly Moses was asked to prepare the ark that was to hold the written word of God, and how perfectly God himself prepared Mary, the ark that was to hold the flesh and blood Word of God.
I pray that they will come to know the truth about Mary, and recognize themselves in Rev. 12:17 as among the "rest of her offspring -- those who obey God's commandments and hold the the testimony of Jesus."
|
|
|
EMarshallBuckles
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 656 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 07:34 pm |
|
Well, I was writing a reply when these guys from Home Depot showed up to deliver our new stove (the old, ten year old one "gave up the ghost" - so to speak - a few days ago) so I had to shut down my computer. I was startled to come back on line and find that I was still logged in here!  Oh well!
Anway, dear Jane, my sister in Christ, certainly I do AGREE with you that the song is from a strongly protestant perspective. Even though I have not splashed my way across the Tiber, I do NOT agree with the song's perspective. It is a touching song with some powerful images, however, had I written it, I would have said, "Yes, Mary, you knew..." because I think that she DID know! I look forward to seeing her in heaven, someday, and humbly thanking her for all that she did in service to our Lord which so vastly benefited humankind. She was and still IS one AWESOME, great Lady! What I meant to kindly do, in sharing the comments and the song with our brilliant sister in Christ Kayla, as well as the rest of you, is to suggest that my beloved Catholic sisters and brothers in Christ still need to put those great minds together and come up with new ways to help protestants, and non-believers as well, understand about Mary and about Catholic theology. I KNOW that you all can do it! I hope and pray that you WILL do it! I look forward to seeing and hearing GREAT THINGS about my Catholic brothers and sisters reaching the world with the Gospel of Christ in future years! And you all have my love and prayers! May God bless you all! 
|
|
|
TotusTuus
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 31st, 2006 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 126 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic (thanks Mom and Dad!) |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 07:41 pm |
|
Wow Kayla! I've listened to a lot of preaching on the Blessed Mother but I've never heard that verse used in that way. I think it is a fair and insightful point.
Scott Hahn makes a similar point in his book Hail Holy Queen. He observes that many believers wish to distance themselves from the mystery of God revealed in Mary instead of celebrating it. I don't recall Scott, however, who is normally very perceptive to this type of interpretation, interpreting the verse this way.
I wonder if any of the Church fathers have made this spiritual interpretation of the passage ....
Last edited on Fri May 16th, 2008 07:56 pm by TotusTuus
____________________
TTM!
|
|
|
EMarshallBuckles
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 656 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 07:54 pm |
|
| You know, I am aware that Biblical scholars have recognized that there was apparently an "unknown person", whom they call "Q", the "Q source", as I recall, who informed others about the incidents in the New Testament, if memory serves. Anyway, whether or not Mary was this "Q source", I think that she DID inform those writing the New Testament books, sharing with them what she did and experienced with Jesus. And she was there, during Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit arrived as well. As Kayla suggested about Mary, I think that protestants do tend to "put her away quietly" when they should honor her as she should be honored. Mary is becoming more special to me. I am in AWE of her!
|
|
|
TotusTuus
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 31st, 2006 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 126 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic (thanks Mom and Dad!) |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 08:11 pm |
|
As I understand the theory, Q (or "Quelle"; French meaning "source"), is not a person but a hypothetical documentary source for the Gospel writers. The key term here is "hypothetical", because there is no historical evidence for "Q". Rather, enlightenment era scholars observed the common features of the Gospels and posited that there must be some first, pristine document.
It is interesting, however, that you say that that "Q" might be the Blessed Mother because there is some Patristic testimony to the fact that Luke had access to the infancy stories due to his close affiliation with the Mother of Jesus. Also, Luke wrote Acts where the Blessed Mother's influence upon the infant Church is likewise attested.
____________________
TTM!
|
|
|
JillD
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 857 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 08:33 pm |
|
With reference to your other thread, Kayla, these are not the thoughts of an "F" student. No way.
J
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
|
|
|
left coast mystic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | La Honda, California USA |
| Posts: | 161 |
| First Name: | Marcee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nondenominational charismatic, Presbyterian, long-time lover of the RCC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 07:43 pm |
|
We cannot understand the mystery of God’s will on our own; just as Joseph, in his human reason alone, could not understand the great mystery taking place in the Blessed Virgin. Joseph needed the intervention of God to comprehend; so do we. The angel appeared to Joseph and told him not to fear, but take the Blessed Mother into his house, for the child in her womb was conceived of the Holy Spirit.
In the same way, the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, tells us not to fear, but to take Mary into our own homes, for what is revealed through her is conceived of the Holy Spirit. The four Marian dogmas (Mary as Mother of God, the Immaculate Conception, the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, and the Assumption) are all Christocentric. All that Catholics believe of the Blessed Mother points us towards Christ. Mary magnifies the mystery of Christ.
Yet, so many try to “put her away quietly”, afraid to explore her role in our salvation. Do not be afraid to take the Blessed Mother into your homes, into your hearts! All the she is she has received in grace from God. All that is revealed in her is conceived of the Holy Spirit. Learn about the Blessed Virgin. Follow the example of St. Joseph and take her into your home, trusting in God and His mysterious ways.
Kayla -
What can I say? Your words have dissolved the obstacle in my own heart that prevented me from opening my heart to the Blessed Mother. As a student of the middle ages and a long-time Christian I have struggled to understand the perspective that accords Mary such honor, and yet it is so simple (if THAT isn't one of the key characteristics of God's path, I don't know what is!). You have a wonderful gift of articulating the deep insights of the heart and spirit; I'm sure that God has amazing plans to use you for His glory!
-Marcee
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and trust shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
|
|
|
Pani Rose
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Irondale, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 601 |
| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 11:56 pm |
|
TotusTuus wrote: As I understand the theory, Q (or "Quelle"; French meaning "source"), is not a person but a hypothetical documentary source for the Gospel writers. The key term here is "hypothetical", because there is no historical evidence for "Q". Rather, enlightenment era scholars observed the common features of the Gospels and posited that there must be some first, pristine document.
It is interesting, however, that you say that that "Q" might be the Blessed Mother because there is some Patristic testimony to the fact that Luke had access to the infancy stories due to his close affiliation with the Mother of Jesus. Also, Luke wrote Acts where the Blessed Mother's influence upon the infant Church is likewise attested.
St Luke was also the first icon writter
  sort of 
St. Luke painting the icon of the Theotokos
17th century. Moraca monastery. Last edited on Tue May 20th, 2008 11:58 pm by Pani Rose
|
|
|
Current time is 11:41 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
