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Zosan
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| First Name: | Norm | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic - Worldwide Church of God - Assemblies of ... |
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 04:10 am |
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A student gave me this flyer this evening before class. I tried to scan and paste it to this post, but was not able to do so. I attached the two page flyer as small JPG files. Once you click on it you'll be able to magnify it for easy reading.
Comments please.
Thank you.
Norm
aka zosan
Attachment: Dogma20001.gif (Downloaded 46 times)
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Zosan
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Biloxi, Mississippi USA |
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| First Name: | Norm | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic - Worldwide Church of God - Assemblies of ... |
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 04:14 am |
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Voila...The second JPG posted to the original message...Cute...Learn something new every day with this forum...
Here is the first page...
Norm
aka
zosan
Attachment: Dogma10001.gif (Downloaded 45 times)
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Robert
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Germany |
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| First Name: | Robert | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | The whole spectrum from black to white, now 100% Catholic! |
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 08:53 am |
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Hi Norm,
Interesting pamphlet, but Personally I’m very sceptical of actions such as this.
The pamphlet contains neither a recommendation of how the dogma should be worded, what it entails, nor anything on what co-redemtrix could / does really mean in relation to our Lord and Redeemer Jesus Christ.
Praying for something that is not defined is just not where I would want to go with this. IMO its not needed, and I don’t think its in the interest of the average Joe/Jane Catholic who will have to defend the new (and hard to understand/explain) dogma against the inevitable J.T. Chick tract.
The subject was discussed at length on the Catholic Answers forum, and there are some real good pros and cons: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=15967&highlight=co+redemptrix
____________________
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 01:10 pm |
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Dr. Miravalle and his followers presented this same idea in a formal petition to Pope John Paul II about a decade ago. The pope considered it carefully and eventually replied that “the time is not right” for the promulgation of such a dogma.
We need to understand that Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces and advocate of Christians is already a doctrine of the Church; it is just not formally defined as a dogma. So what this flier is asking is not the establishment of a new doctrine, but that the current doctrine be raised to the highest level of authority.
It may be that this will, in time, occur. But I think that Pope John Paul II was wise in saying that the opportune time is not yet, for other work is more pressing. The order of business for Pope Benedict XVI is to confirm us in the faith as it was handed down to us, according to its confirmation in the Second Vatican Council; he is doing this, thus clearing the way for some future pope to look into Marian doctrine more closely.
David
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Zosan
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| First Name: | Norm | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic - Worldwide Church of God - Assemblies of ... |
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 06:01 pm |
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Hello Robert,
Thank you for the link. I found it very interesting. I am vagely familiar with the teaching of Fatima and I believe this doctrine will be elevated to a dogma someday. By then I'm sure the Pope, whomever it may be, will clarify the teaching for all to understand.
Norm
aka Zosan
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Zosan
Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Biloxi, Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 63 |
| First Name: | Norm | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic - Worldwide Church of God - Assemblies of ... |
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Posted: Wed Mar 26th, 2008 06:12 pm |
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BINGO! David...This is what I was looking for when I posted this flyer. I know the idea has been around since 1917. Possibly other Popes have been petitioned as well over the years. This is the first petition that I've come across on this topic and did not have a clue about Dr. Miravalle.
I knew this forum would be the quickest resource to find answers. Thank you for the quick response.
I will continue to live and learn as things unfold for us as Catholics.
Norm
aka Zosan
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 05:17 pm |
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Hi Norm,
This doctrine's been around a lot longer than 1917:
Mary as Mediatrix: The Patristic, Medieval, and Early Orthodox Evidence
I am an "inopportunist" too, like JPII and (seemingly) BXVI, but I believe in and defend the doctrine, as part of received Catholic Mariological tradition. I wrote recently about the last two popes' views on this matter:
Clarifications of the Positions of Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI Regarding the Mediatrix / "Coredemptrix" Mariological Matter
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 03:04 am |
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The only difference between a doctrine and a dogma is a formal declaration by either a pope in union with the bishops, or by a council in union with the pope. The proclamation of a dogma changes nothing.
When the dogma of the Immaculate Conception was declared, it formalized doctrine that had been held since the earliest days of the Church. It did not change the belief or practice of the Church by even a little bit. The Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception was celebrated the year before the declaration, and it was celebrated the year after.
When the dogma of the Assumption was declared, it formalized doctrine that had been held since the earliest days of the Church. It did not change the belief or practice of the Church by even a little bit. The Solemnity of the Assumption was celebrated the year before the declaration, and it was celebrated the year after.
If a new Marian dogma is proclaimed, it will not change the belief or practice of the Church by even a little bit. Church teachings will be the same before and after. Honors given to Mary will not change, and the teachings and beliefs of the Church will not change.
The Dogma of the Immaculate Conception was declared in 1854, but the feast was added to the calendar for the universal Church in 1476, nearly 400 years earlier.
The Dogma of the Assumption of Mary was declared in 1950, but the feast was celebrated before the year 500, meaning the doctrine was at least 1500 years old before it was promulgated.
So whether additional dogmas are declared or not, the teaching of the Church will remain the same.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Hidden One
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 10:12 pm |
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Just in case it adds something: http://www.voxpopuli.org/images/mteres01.jpg
Mother Teresa can be quite succinct.
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1 John 4:7-12
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