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Hidden One
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 28th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | H1 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | lax Presbyterian -> pseudo-Arminian non-denom -> heretical Presbyterian -> ... |
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 02:35 am |
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Is there any theological work by a Pope, ECF, Saint, or even just an excellent Catholic author on Enoch or relating to Enoch? What, if anything, is known via tradition about this blessed man who was taken and seen no more on earth?
I've always been curious about this man who never tasted death, and I've never come across anything relating to him that is also of substance, both as a Protestant and now, as a swimmer of the Tiber.
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1 John 4:7-12
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 656 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 03:08 am |
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| I cannot just now remember the source, however, I do remember some Protestant writer (might have been Hal Lindsey or one of the guys specializing in end times discussions) who put forth the speculation that perhaps it might be Elijah and Enoch who come to earth to confront the Anti-Christ will be killed and resurrected. That's the only sort of discussion I recall seeing other than some comments about how Enoch must have been just so very close to God, such a Godly man, that God would just "translate" him without death. I've wondered if that has ever happened since then just without anybody necessarily knowing about it. Anyway, I would likewise be interested to know if anybody knows of any theological considerations which have been done about Enoch. Oh DAVE! CAJUNRICK!!! YOOO HOOO!! How 'bout it guys?! Heard or read anything more about Enoch than what we read in the Bible?!
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 03:30 am |
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Hidden One wrote: Is there any theological work by a Pope, ECF, Saint, or even just an excellent Catholic author on Enoch or relating to Enoch?
At Intratext, I did a search for "Enoch" in English and came back with several hits including writings from popes, saints, and apocryphal writings, and a papal encyclical or two. You'll find the list here.
I found a lot more in Latin, but I thought it would be more useful just to report the English results. 
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Hidden One
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 03:36 am |
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The link is just going to the search page, not the results.
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1 John 4:7-12
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 03:54 am |
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Hidden One wrote: The link is just going to the search page, not the results.
Sorry, it must be using a script to generate the results. Just type "Enoch" under Text, and then choose the language you want, and click search.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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hpj0828
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| Joined: | Sun Apr 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 144 |
| First Name: | Henry | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Messianic Jewish believer, Hebrew Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 03:58 am |
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The Pseudepigrapha are a group of early Jewish writings, most predating the birth of Jesus, which are written in the names of Jewish holy people of the OT. One very important book in this category is:
I Enoch
This book was originally written in Hebrew, but its complete version is found in Old Ethiopic. I Enoch is considered a canonical book of the Bible by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
Fragments of I Enoch are found among the Dead Sea Scrolls from Qumran.
I Enoch tells the story of Enoch who, after he is assumed into heaven, plays a major role as the scribe chosen by God to record the actions and destiny of the fallen angels described briefly as the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 who cohabited with human women to produce the race of Giants known as the Nephalim. It also contains Messianic references to the "Son of Man" of major interest in the study of 1st C Judaism and Christianity. It was probably written within, or close to, the theological circle of the Essenes who wrote/copied the Dead Sea Scrolls.
There are several translations based on an early version of the Ethiopic text that date from the late 1800s ; these are pretty good and in the public domain. You can get download I Enoch from several sites by a simple Google search. For starters, you can go to: http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/1enoch.html
The authoritative text and most accurate translation is found in book form, The Pseudepigrapha, edited by James Charlesworth, a scholar from Princeton Theological Seminary.
There is also a II Enoch text which exists in Old Slavonic. Again, you can get older translations of this, but the authoritative text is that edited by Charlesworth above. There is also a III Enoch. II and III Enoch are mystical Jewish writings concerning angelic beings and heavenly realms.
All of the Pseudepigraphal writings are speculative and based upon Jewish legends. Much that is in them would be considered legendary or even heretical. But, they are interesting as they reflect the thinking present among certain segments of the early Jews.
Henry
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HPJ
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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 11:06 am |
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Wow, I didn't know anything like this about Enoch :?
Ali
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hpj0828
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| Joined: | Sun Apr 1st, 2007 |
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| First Name: | Henry | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Messianic Jewish believer, Hebrew Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 06:40 pm |
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Bear in mind that the Pseudepigrapha have not been accepted by the RCC as true accounts of Biblical figures such as Enoch. Rather, they are speculations which Jews have had about Enoch--imaginative ways of "filling the gaps" in information about Enoch, when the Scripture itself tells us very little.
Nevertheless, they do represent the beliefs of Jewish people around the time of Jesus, so they inform our understanding of the Jewish background of the NT.
On the other hand, the Book of 1 Enoch is quoted directly in the NT book of Jude. Jude cites this passage as a true quotation from the real Biblical Patriarch, so at least one NT source views 1 Enoch as authoritative in some sense:
Jude 1:14 And about these also Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
I Enoch 1 (last verses) tr. R. H. Charles:
"And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
The story of Enoch in 1 Enoch is very fascinating. Well worth the read!
Henry
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HPJ
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