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Credo Catholic
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| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 09:35 pm |
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| One day last week I was listening to catholic radio, I think it was Jimmy Akin (not sure). The caller was asking about the final judgement, when all souls arise and are judged. Part of the answer to the question was that we will all be judged on everything we have done, and it will be a public judgement. I have never heard that before, that I will stand not only before God but before everyone else. This bothers me alot! I trust in God to understand me and what I have done or not done, but everyone else? Does it mean that we will have witnesses as to whether we have been kind, or forgiving, etc? Also, I thought that when I am forgiven for something, then it was forgotten, as if it never happened. In confession I am absolved, but is it going to be brought up again? Now I don't know what to think, and its on my mind.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 11:02 pm |
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As I understand it, Marsha, the judgment on the final day will indeed be an assembly of all the human beings that ever lived, and it will be a public understanding of everyone’s lives. Everyone has faults, so we will all have company in that aspect. I don’t know how much detail will be revealed, but it is said that many things will be revealed. This does not mean, however, that God believes in double jeopardy. You were judged in your private judgment at death, and that will remain in force. It seems that the final judgment will instead be a means of reconciling all the loose ends, allowing us all to see God’s wisdom and mercy as well as his justice. And it will be the moment of our entering, body and soul, into a new heaven and a new earth, into the heavenly city of Jerusalem, where all is seen in the light of the Lamb who was slain and yet lives.
I do not fear this. Everyone around me already knows my faults. They talk about them all the time. If I am allowed into heaven, what will I care that I was imperfect on earth? Isn’t that allowed? “When that which is perfect comes, that which is imperfect will pass away” (1 Corinthians 13:10).
David
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Credo Catholic
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 01:33 am |
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David, do you not fear being judged for turning away from a beggar on the street, or for not being as charitable as you could with your offering on Sunday, etc? I would have to begin with a pure heart today to rectify my miserable attempts at Christian living. And those sins are mild to others, which everyone can understand, being the people we are.
The parable (I can't remember where in the NT) of the workers who were all paid the same amount even though some arrived late in the day, is that a good scripture for those of us who are trying but know they are way behind in the process of living for Christ as we should? That seems to be what it is referring to. I know that I spend a lot more time in prayer and devotions than anyone else in my family, but that doesn't mean I'm doing enough. And now I'm thinking that my worries are a "pride" issue! The thought of being judged before the world. It's a very good incentive to do better, although deep down I know a better incentive would be to be at the Lord's side when He enters heaven again.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 03:11 am |
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Do you not fear being judged for turning away from a beggar on the street, or for not being as charitable as you could with your offering on Sunday, etc?
OK, now we are on a different topic, something more in my line. Allow me to speak to this, and maybe something will strike sparks and you can get a fire going.
Since I am myself am, in a financial sense, a “poor beggar,” I do not fear. I have discussed these points with my confessor, and he has told me that we must be reasonable and prudent as well as generous. In addition to offering huge amounts of my time, learning and prayer to the evangelization of the world as a volunteer with the CHNI apostolate, I am generous in giving according to my means both to my parish and to other of the Church’s works, so if I turn away additional obligations, I am being prudent, not uncharitable. Prudence is a virtue, not a sin; it recognizes that I have limitations and must “budget” myself to have any chance of doing effective good. If I tried harder, if I gave away more, I would literally be killing myself with overwork and poverty, and my work would be less effective, not more.
Just a week ago I was counseling someone locally on this very point. The lady was literally worn out with so many projects and sleep deprivation. I had to tell her to slow down. God wants her alive, not dead. I saw her this past Sunday, and she did look better and was able to get through her prayers without keeling over.
I would have to begin with a pure heart today to rectify my miserable attempts at Christian living. And those sins are mild [compared] to others, which everyone can understand, being the people we are.
All of us make “miserable attempts.” I lament my own in every confession. My confessor, at one point, had to practically chase me away from the confessional because of my being there so often.
Jesus is the savior of the world, not you. It is not right for you to attempt to carry him. Let him carry you. He’s God, after all.
The parable (I can't remember where in the NT) of the workers who were all paid the same amount even though some arrived late in the day, is that a good scripture for those of us who are trying but know they are way behind in the process of living for Christ as we should?
Matthew 20:1–16. The denarius symbolizes the reward of heaven. The call to work, whether it comes early or late, is God’s call to salvation. (Notice that we are required to work for that salvation. But also note that God is a generous employer, paying us far more than we are worth.) The workers in the marketplace were all ready to work but had not been hired. Perhaps some of them had arrived late and thus were not among the earlier groups to be hired. But they did come, and God, the vineyard owner, did return several times to hire all comers. He made sure that no one would be left standing idle for lack of an invitation.
The point of the parable is that you need to show up at the marketplace ready to work. God does not require more than you are capable of doing, and he does not require more than you are able to give. Each one of us has his limits, and each of us has to recognize those limits.
Worrying about “not doing enough” when you are already doing everything you can is folly, Marsha. You say,
I know that I spend a lot more time in prayer and devotions than anyone else in my family, but that doesn't mean I'm doing enough. And now I'm thinking that my worries are a "pride" issue!
Yes, they are a “pride issue.” You think you are so important that God is expecting the impossible of you. You think that what you do — prayer and devotions are what you list — is somehow going to convince God that you are “good enough” to be let in through the pearly gates. You want to “earn” your way to heaven, just as Protestants often accuse Catholics in general of doing!
And that other point, the one you brought up at the beginning, you now raise again: being judged “before the world.” You gotta look good! Nonsense. We are all beggars at heaven’s gates. We are, as Jesus urges to acknowledge, “unworthy servants” (Luke 17:10).
Yes, we are servants. We are given the commandments; this is our “job” on earth. There are only ten of them, as I recall. What in them is so difficult that we can’t find a way, with God’s grace, to accomplish our task? However, anything additional is by invitation only. We listen to God’s call and do what he assigns. If he wants us to do more, he will tell us. Your confessor or spiritual director can tell you how to hear that call and how to obey.
Might I suggest that you learn the doctrine of St. Therese of Lisieux, her “little way.” This is precisely the doctrine that will disabuse you of your fear of God’s judgment. Learn how Therese used God’s “elevator” to get to heaven. It’s the best way I know for us “little folk” who have such severe handicaps that we are incapable of doing any real good. God, says Therese, wants us to arrive at heaven’s gates “empty-handed.” Find out what she means by that in her Story of a Soul.
David
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Credo Catholic
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 02:52 pm |
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| Thanks David, your reply does a world of good. I have read Story of a Soul and apply the "Little Way" in my household duties, and by being very patient and smiling with others, but I guess I need to learn new ways of applying it and understanding it. Thanks again, God bless
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BeProf
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| First Name: | Ed | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Independent Fundamental Baptist - Atheism - Christian & Missionary Alliance |
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 03:57 pm |
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I tend to view the Final Judgement, at least for the Elect, as a kind of final step in our sanctification. At that time, before God and our fellow man, each of us will see the full depth of our own sinfulness. We'll see how every idle word and deed, every "secret sin" that we though couldn't hurt anybody else, really did hurt both God and our fellow man.
At the same time, for the Elect at least, we'll also see, for the first time really, we'll see the real depth of God's grace. Every little thing that we didn't understand while we were alive, all the countless little acts of divine providence, will be brought into sharp focus. After that, we will, I think be truly and completely ready to enter fully into the joys of heaven.
As for the non-elect, well... we have to remember, I think, that in the Bible a critical component of the final punishment of sin is not just torment but also shame. In the Old Testament there is a constant thread of shame woven through with judgement. It's not just enough for the wicked to be punished, they have to be brought low. They refused to humble themselves so they must be humiliated before Him.
The idea of having our dirty laundry aired out before fore everyone... God and man, saint and sinner... is scary for both the Elect and the non-elect. I think, however, that it should motivate us to do better with the help of God in the here and now. Sure, we can sin and, if we're truly contrite, God will forgive us, but there is still a reckoning for it to come.
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Credo Catholic
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 04:29 pm |
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| Ed, I don't understand exactly what the "elect" is, is it the people who have trusted in the Lord for their salvation, and therefore will be admitted into heaven? Otherwise, I agree with you that it is a strong motivation to clean up my life, temporal and spiritual. What you said about us seeing the results of our good deeds or bad deeds in others lives, is like the ripples in the pond when something hits the surface. Good comments.
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BeProf
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 06:08 pm |
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| I mean "Elect" in the broadest possible sense of "everybody who eventually ends up in heaven."
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 05:12 pm |
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I think it's fascinating that virtually all the passages we can find about the Last Judgment refer to works and not to faith, making it very difficult to hold that faith alone is the determinant of salvation, and works, not at all. See:
Final Judgment in Scripture is Always Associated With Works And Never With Faith Alone (50 Passages) (+ Discussion)
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Credo Catholic
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 06:48 pm |
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I went to the bookstore on the afternoon of St. Therese's feast day this week to look for something new about her, and I found a little treasure of a book, The St. Therese of Lisieux Prayer Book by Vinita Hampton Wright. It is a daily devotional to accompany the morning and evening prayers of the LOTH. Using her own prayers as well as psalms and scripture passages, moments of silence indicated where appropriate, it does seem that this sweet young saint is beside me. I also got the Shorter Christian Prayer to encourage me to use it everyday, thinking a shorter version wouldn't be discouraging. The two together are working out well for me, and I would encourage anyone who feels they need to expand their prayer life to look into these books.
The amazing thing to me is that today's morning prayer in the St. Therese book included the passage from Matthew 20 that David and I discussed above, about the laborers who worked in the fields for different amounts of time but were rewarded equally by the master. It seemed to be in the book just to let me know I was on the right path!
Here is a short quote from St. Therese: "If all the weak and imperfect souls felt what the smallest of all souls feels, the soul of your little Therese, not a single one would despair at arriving at the top of the mountain of love, since Jesus does not ask for great actions, but only for abandonment and gratefulness."
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 07:31 pm |
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See there? It’s already working for you, Marsha. Cheers!
David
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