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mommy2boys Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 01:42 pm |
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I am trying to understand the catholic doctrine of purgatory. Coming from a born again evangelical background I know very little about it. Could someone point me to the scriptures and church documents that support and explian it or could someone give a a laymans ("readers digest") explanation for me to get started.
THANK YOU! This website and forum has been such a blessing as I explore the Catholic faith.
Blessings,
Janet
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David W. Emery Network Helper
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 02:47 pm |
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Let me refer back to what I wrote to you yesterday in answer to your question about mortal and venial sin:
Catholics also distinguish between the sin in itself and the consequences of sin (what is referred to in the text above as “temporal punishment”). If I murder someone, that is a grave sin; the consequences are that there is a person dead, and the body will have to be attended to, including funeral and burial. Probably there are relatives and friends who mourn his loss. In addition, for myself there is the question not only of sin but of crime. This entails arraignment, trial, conviction and penalty. And these proceedings will affect my relatives and friends as well. Et cetera. No sin is without consequences.
Purgatory is related to these consequences of sin as forgiveness is related to sin in itself.
You can see that the consequences of sin involve suffering and pain. If I repent, I may be forgiven by God for the murder I commit. But somehow the consequences of my sinful act go on and on until they are all played out in the history of the world. The “punishment” does not magically disappear when God forgives me.
So I (and others!) must suffer and pay the price for my transgression. If I make acts of penance, the consequences play out more quickly; if I remain hardened, they are aggravated and take longer to be satisfied. Regardless, I have until the moment of my death to “pay back.” After that — what?
Well, the sin is forgiven. Do I go to heaven?
But is the debt paid in full? Sometimes it is not. How much does one owe for taking someone’s life? How can God, who has said, “But nothing unclean shall enter it [the heavenly Jerusalem], nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27), allow me to pass through the gates of heaven if I am still unclean?
Here is the classic biblical text establishing the theological belief in purgatory by the Jews shortly before the birth of Christ. Judas Maccabeus and his army had just won a great battle against the pagans. But they had lost some men in the process. Here is what ensued:
On the next day, as by that time it had become necessary, Judas and his men went to take up the bodies of the fallen and to bring them back to lie with their kinsmen in the sepulchres of their fathers. Then under the tunic of every one of the dead they found sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. And it became clear to all that this was why these men had fallen. So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous Judge, who reveals the things that are hidden; and they turned to prayer, beseeching that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out. And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection. For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (2 Maccabees 12:39–46)
Purgatory, then, is a state of expiation from sin (that is, paying off the consequences) after death. For as the text shows, death is followed by resurrection on the last day, and then comes eternity in heaven or hell, according to the disposition of the individual. If one’s sins have been forgiven, but the penance has not been served in full, it is paid in this manner. Note that this passage also explains the motive for prayers for the dead. In fact, the “dead” are not dead; they have instead passed through a “change of state” because the human soul is immortal and we believe in the resurrection of the body (cf. the Apostles’ Creed, which dates from the 2nd century AD).
David
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Darlene Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 03:57 pm |
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Janet,
I am also on a journey toward the Catholic Church. I have had to come to terms with understanding this doctrine as well. I will give you an additional reference which clarified the doctrine of Purgatory quite well for me.
"Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." I Corinthians 3:12-15
So what is this fire referring to? We know from the context that it cannot be speaking about the fires of hell. The fire which is spoken of in this passage is in reference to those who are believers in Christ, not those who are outside of the kingdom of God. So this cleansing of through fire is a purging process. It does not occur here on earth, and it does not occur in Heaven either. But rather it occurs in a place, or better yet, an existance which is neither Heaven or hell, but what in Catholic doctrine is called Purgatory.
I hope I have helped.
Darlene
____________________ The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Tina in Ashburn Member

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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 04:09 pm |
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Isn't the reason the reformists removed the two books of Maccabees from the Bible was because of the books' teaching on Purgatory, right?
I sometimes find it helpful to compare other translations to get even more clarification and depth. I've added the quote from the very old and venerable Douay of 1609. For instance, the last verse is a strong declarative statement that we should pray for the dead.
12:39 And the day following Judas cam with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers.
12:40 And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth the Jews: that all plainly saw, for this cause they were slain.
12:41 Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.
12:42 And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.
12:43 And making a gathering, he twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,
12:44 (For if he had not hoped that the that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)
12:45 And because he considered that those who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.
12:46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
____________________ Tina
Arlington Diocese
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CajunRick Network Helper

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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 09:00 pm |
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mommy2boys wrote: I am trying to understand the catholic doctrine of purgatory.
The simplest explanation I've heard is that it is the "Lobby" or "Foyer" to heaven, where we make our final preparation to enter God's presence. If our journey has been one of true faith and sacrifice, we will need little additional preparation. If we have had a difficult road, our preparation will be intense.
Here's an analogy. Of course, no analogy is ever perfect, but this will give you the basic idea.
Let's suppose I arrive for a formal banquet and an opportunity to meet the President dressed in a suit and riding in a limousine. I will need little additional preparation to enter. My wife might want to touch up her makeup and I'll check to see that my tie is straight.
But what if I rode my bicycle in the rain wearing a sweat suit? Chances are I'll need a shower and a change of clothes, so my preparation will be more intense.
Saintly people like Pope John Paul II and Mother Teresa will need little preparation and may indeed be ready to go right in. The rest of us will most likely need some touching up, and maybe even a shower or two to get off the stink of our sinful lives. Thankfully, God has provided us with a method of cleansing ourselves for as Jesus told us, even though we are invited to the wedding banquet, we have to arrive properly dressed or we won't get in.
It's not a place of punishment but of joyful anticipation as we prepare for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb! The "punishment" we experience is the knowledge that it's our own fault that st yet through our own fault!
Here are some references for you. Catholics United for the Faith have produced a Faith Fact on Purgatory that you can find here.
Catholic Answers has two tracts on Purgatory. The first, which explains the teaching, is available here. The second, which contains quotes from the Early Church Fathers, is found here.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church has a concise summary of the Church's teaching on Purgatory which you'll find beginning at paragraph 1030. The Compendium of the Catechism has a simpler explanation beginning at question 210.
New Advent has a section from the Catholic Encyclopedia on Purgatory.. The entry is from 1917, so some of the terminology might not be phrased just the way we would say it today, but the basic doctrine hasn't changed.
Please let us know if you have any more questions.
Edited to fix linksLast edited on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 09:39 pm by
____________________ Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Darlene Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 10:29 pm |
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Rick,
Thanks for the quotes from the Early Church Fathers. Is there a specific way or manner in which we should pray for the dead? Should we pray for them in general or for those whom we have known? This is a foreign concept to me, since I have never done it before.
Darlene
____________________ The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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CajunRick Network Helper

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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 11:08 pm |
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Darlene wrote: Thanks for the quotes from the Early Church Fathers. Is there a specific way or manner in which we should pray for the dead? Should we pray for them in general or for those whom we have known? This is a foreign concept to me, since I have never done it before.
The traditional prayer for the dead is:
"Eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord, and let perpetual Light shine upon him. Amen.
May he rest in peace. Amen.
May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen."
When we add the Fatima Prayer to the rosary, we pray:
"O my Jesus, forgive us our sins; save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy."
I tend to just ask Jesus to take care of them.
In other words, there's no wrong way to pray as long as you're sincere. Trust God to dispense your prayers where they are most needed.
____________________ Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Tina in Ashburn Member

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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 04:39 pm |
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Also besides personal prayer in asking for mercy and speedy release, you can also have a Mass said for the souls in Purgatory [a.k.a. the Poor Souls], or for a specific person who has died. In the "old" days, one didn't give to charities in someone's name but had a Mass said for the deceased and then sent a "Mass card" to the family to let them know. This of course is still done today.
Another tidbit: if you cannot get an answer to your prayers any other way, ask the souls in Purgatory for help. They are unbelievably powerful intercessors. The teaching is that souls in Purgatory cannot pray for themselves, only for others. Therefore they are desperately in need of our charitable prayers and if you promise them a rosary, novena, an act of charity, a Mass or whatever if your prayer is answered, they will help. I'm frequently stunned by the speed of answers when I remember to do this.
There are many saints who have been devoted to the relief of the souls in Purgatory and made it their mission to pray for their relief and to spread the word to all to pray for them too.
Some are in Purgatory until the end of time. I know a priest that always prays for the "most forgotten soul".
Hey Rick, can you describe what the cemeteries look like around you on All Souls Day? In Europe the cemeteries used to be aflame with burning candles at every headstone. Isn't this also the case in Cajun land?
____________________ Tina
Arlington Diocese
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CajunRick Network Helper

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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 09:58 pm |
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Tina in Ashburn wrote: Hey Rick, can you describe what the cemeteries look like around you on All Souls Day? In Europe the cemeteries used to be aflame with burning candles at every headstone. Isn't this also the case in Cajun land?
Shouldn't that go in a new topic? 
We don't do candles. Crypts are above ground, and are painted, spit-shined, and bedecked in flowers for the blessing of the cemetary, which takes place in my parish on All Saints' Day. The memorial service for those who died in the past year is on All Souls' Day.
I have pictures of our cemetary, but of course I wouldn't dare post them in an off-topic message!
____________________ Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Tina in Ashburn Member

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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 11:40 pm |
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Watch it. Or I'll call the topic police.
Wait, if we are talking about praying for the dead souls, doesn't that mean we are talking about the Souls in Purgatory? This sounds wonderful to see such respect for the memory of the dead. Wish we were more demonstrative like that around here.
So post pictures, dude.
And if you have any pictures of Purgatory, that would be good too. [okay everybody, really, I'm kidding, Rick's good but not that good].
____________________ Tina
Arlington Diocese
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lia Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2007 05:48 am |
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My layman's explanation...
If you agree that only holy and pure spirit can enter heaven then for those who are not so holy but not evil...this is where purgatory comes in. If you are honest with yourself, even though you live your life as holy and you can, can you really say you are without sin? Whether in thought, word or deed? (Thoughts are the hardest to screen.) So even if you have an atom of "impurity" on you, you can't enter heaven. It's the purgatory's job to clean you of this impurity.
As much as God loves us, He will not let us enter His kingdom with a stain on our soul. I've read that Luther's interpretation of Jesus' justifying our sin is that it's like our sin is covered with snow (or is it white blanket?) so there is no more sin to be seen. Oh, sure, the sin cannot be seen anymore, but it still exist, right? Wouldn't that be cheating? It's like sweeping the dust under the rug and saying the room is already clean. That's why we must be purged of our sin before we are allowed to see Him. Wouldn't you be more proud to face God with your soul shinning than a blanket over you? 

____________________ Man can't b forced 2 accept the truth.He can b drawn toward the truth only by his own nature, that is, by his own freedom w/c commits him 2 search sincerely 4 truth & when he finds it, 2 adhere 2 it both in his conviction & his behavior.-- JP2
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wvnlyjstbgn Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 05:58 am |
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| My explanatioin. Jesus is our righteousness. "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." I believe the one who is saved lays up riches in heaven by the things they have done for God here on earth. Wood hay and stubble, I believe, refers to the things we do for ourselves. But whatever this means does not matter. The fact and truth of the matter is that this person here will be saved. There is only one foundation laid for us to get to heaven and that is Jesus. It is appointed to man once to die but after this is the judgement. I will keep using the disclaimer I believe so as to not offend anyone who knows. I believe that after we die thats it. Innocent by the blood and work,"it is finished", of Jesus, or guilty,"any man who doesnt believe is condemned already." If you need scripture references to my post just ask. But I got to go to work now.
____________________ Being confident of this very thing that He which began a good work in you will perfect it till the day of Jesus Christ. Phil 1:6
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CajunRick Network Helper

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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 09:04 am |
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wvnlyjstbgn wrote: My explanatioin. Jesus is our righteousness. "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." I believe the one who is saved lays up riches in heaven by the things they have done for God here on earth. Wood hay and stubble, I believe, refers to the things we do for ourselves. But whatever this means does not matter. The fact and truth of the matter is that this person here will be saved. There is only one foundation laid for us to get to heaven and that is Jesus. It is appointed to man once to die but after this is the judgement. I will keep using the disclaimer I believe so as to not offend anyone who knows. I believe that after we die thats it. Innocent by the blood and work,"it is finished", of Jesus, or guilty,"any man who doesnt believe is condemned already." If you need scripture references to my post just ask. But I got to go to work now.
This is somewhat confusing. The first half of your post describes Purgatory perfectly, but the second half seems to imply you don't believe. You have also posted that you do not believe works are necessary for salvation, but here you seem to contradict that claim.
I'm not asking for scripture references, just for a better understanding of the point you're trying to make.
____________________ Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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wvnlyjstbgn Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 05:51 am |
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Again, "I believe", when we die we go straight to the Lord and the only thing "works" are good for are rewards in heaven. Works dont bring salvation. Faith brings salvation. But I believe in the event of physical death, at that very moment, all the junk is burned off like dross and boom (like madden) we are clean. Jesus said it is finished not well it is almost finished. When james says Ill show you my faith by my works he is, I believe, agreeing that faith proves itself by working. Not that works bring about a faith that leads to salvation. Our good deeds dont weigh out our bad deeds to get us into heaven. Scripture is against that. So that we have nothing to boast about. It is all about Christ and His finished work on the cross. But, faith does produce a change of life and works follow. So, indeed, faith works is a dead faith. It is no faith at all. Death is the abscense of life. I know that without Christ I would not be doing any of the things I am doing. I would still be a homeless jobless crackhead turning tricks with men and stealing from my family just to get high putting down other homeless jobless crackheads doing the same thing as me just to feel better about myself. Thats
So, no I dont believe in purgatory or salvation by works. Unless this is purgatory. I might consider that. We are rewarded and/or chastised here on earth based on what we do. But then again sometimes we suffer because the Lord is testing us. He tested Job and he came out the other end a better and more blessed man. I pray that I can even be partly worthy to receive the blessing of trials as Job and paul did. I welcome them to build me up. But I know that for our light affliction which is but for a moment there works for us a far more greater and eternal weight of glory. Thats because I am justified by faith in Christ and He is my righteousness. Works just prove my faith. My works dont give me righteousness or salvation. The only work needed for salvation is the work that Jesus did for us in His life and on the cross. If not then we can all be most boastful. But let him that boast's boast in the fact that Jesus Christ is Lord of all to the glory of God. Praise Him.
____________________ Being confident of this very thing that He which began a good work in you will perfect it till the day of Jesus Christ. Phil 1:6
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CajunRick Network Helper

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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 08:33 am |
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wvnlyjstbgn wrote: Again, "I believe", when we die we go straight to the Lord and the only thing "works" are good for are rewards in heaven.
What greater reward can there be beyond heaven itself? How can works gain us greater rewards when heaven is already infinitely great? What is greater than infinity?
Works dont bring salvation. Faith brings salvation. But I believe in the event of physical death, at that very moment, all the junk is burned off like dross and boom (like madden) we are clean.
So regardless of the life we've led, if we have faith we are instantly perfected? Time does not exist in the afterlife, so what is a moment? Doesn't scripture tell us that to God a moment is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a moment?
Your statement is actually quite compatible with Catholic belief in Purgatory. We also believe that in a timeless existence, all the junk is burned off and we are cleaned. You can use any time descriptor you want, because none of them apply. Time has ceased to exist for us at the moment of our death.
Jesus said it is finished not well it is almost finished.
Obviously that was not what Jesus meant. We are still here. Jesus has not returned. Everything is not finished.
When james says Ill show you my faith by my works he is, I believe, agreeing that faith proves itself by working. Not that works bring about a faith that leads to salvation. Our good deeds dont weigh out our bad deeds to get us into heaven.
That is solid Catholic teaching. We are saved by faith. The necessary result of faith is works. Faith without works is meaningless. Works without faith are useless.
So, no I dont believe in purgatory or salvation by works. Unless this is purgatory. I might consider that.
And yet you have described Catholic teaching on both Purgatory and salvation by faith through works rather well as your own beliefs. You are more Catholic than you think!
____________________ Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Darlene Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 03:21 pm |
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Here's something to think about regarding Purgatory. Read the parable in Luke 12:41-48. In this parable, Jesus makes a distinction between the various servants and the faithfulness to their master's will, the master being figurative of our Lord. I will begin at v.45, "But if that servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and to drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him and put him with the unfaithful. (This would be a description of hell. This punishment would not be on this earth because the Lord has put him with the unfaithful and it is a once and done deal.) And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. (Sounds like a purging process to me. And remember, the master has already returned. This servant is now facing his master, after he has died, the master, being figurative of our Lord Jesus. So this servant must go through a purging process. It isn't on earth, yet this beating would not be in Heaven either. Thus Purgatory.) But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. (Again, sounds like a purging process, yet not as severe as the former one.) And this parable is being directed specifically at Christ's servants, as is indicative of Jesus' reply to Peter when he asks Jesus to whom this parable is speaking.
____________________ The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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JasPax Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 04:34 pm |
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Good answer Darlene:
The Doctrine on Purgatory is a great relief to me. I want to be cleansed completely before Heaven.
When I was protestant I always worried that I wasn't "clean" enough to see Jesus face to face. I used to say things like, "Well, I expect to go to heaven but I just know I'll be seated in the back row."
I mentioned the latter one night in our Parish Bible study class and someone pointed out that the "back row" was really my ignorant way of thinking of Purgartory. How true!
God's Blessings,
____________________ James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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wvnlyjstbgn Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 10:03 pm |
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Forgive me but did darlene just say that hell is purgatory? If so am I to consider that we go to hell before heaven. i do believe it was paul who said absent from the body present with the Lord. The way I read is that Jesus sits at the right hand of God in Heaven. I could have read it wrong either in darlenes post or in the bible. I ask this question so as not to misunderstand darlenes post or the catholic position on purgatory.
Thank You
____________________ Being confident of this very thing that He which began a good work in you will perfect it till the day of Jesus Christ. Phil 1:6
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CajunRick Network Helper

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Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 10:25 pm |
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wvnlyjstbgn wrote: Forgive me but did darlene just say that hell is purgatory?
No, that is not what Darlene said. Read it again.
It also is not the teaching of the Catholic Church that hell and purgatory are coexistant, although some visionaries have said that images they have seen of purgatory are identical to hell.
Hell is eternal. Purgatory is not. Hell will continue to exist after the Last Judgment. Purgatory will cease to exist. After the Last Judgment there will be only heaven and hell. Heaven is eternal existence with God; hell is eternal existence separated from God.
Beyond that, the Church has not defined what heaven, hell, and purgatory are like. We are free to describe them and think of them in whatever way we want. Many think of hell as a place of eternal torment. I think of it as more of a sensory deprivation chamber from which we will never be released. I believe hell is an eternity without love, because God is love. I would rather be tormented and punished for all eternity in the company of others, than be isolated and alone.
Last edited on Sat Jul 21st, 2007 10:37 pm by CajunRick
____________________ Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Credo Catholic Member

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Posted: Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 01:50 am |
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| From what I have read and heard, I believe purgatory is a state of being in which we are purified before we come face to face with God, because we cannot see Him in His glory until we are pure. Having been forgiven of sins does not always release us from what is called the "attachment" to them. I may have been forgiven for partying too much one night and having too much to drink, which would be gluttony and I don't know what else. But I may have a somewhat fond memory of that night. I may have had extra-marital sex (just using an example folks!) and been forgiven at confession, but I may have an attachment of some sort to that activity even though I am sorry for having done it. Is that what attachment is? My heart is not as pure as it should be. I have gone to confession for things that I later spent time thinking about, not always with complete loathing for them. I want to have loathing for them, I try to, but it doesn't always happen. It has been my understanding that purgatory is where that "detachment" and purification takes place, and apparently it is still in the realm of time, whereas heaven and hell are not. I have heard Fr. Groeschel say he prays he will go to purgatory, it's not as bad a thing as people think.
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wvnlyjstbgn Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 07:30 am |
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Rick wrote: Hell is eternal.
Hell is eternal? Death and hell are to be cast into the lake of fire. That is the second death. Eternity for those who live on earth and dont accept Jesus is spent in the lake of fire. Hell is just holding them for now.
____________________ Being confident of this very thing that He which began a good work in you will perfect it till the day of Jesus Christ. Phil 1:6
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CajunRick Network Helper

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Posted: Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 11:18 am |
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wvnlyjstbgn wrote: Rick wrote: Hell is eternal.
Hell is eternal? Death and hell are to be cast into the lake of fire. That is the second death. Eternity for those who live on earth and dont accept Jesus is spent in the lake of fire. Hell is just holding them for now.
Yes, Hell is eternal. From the Catechism:
IV. HELL
1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."
1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire," and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent cal |
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