 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
youngone88
Member
| Joined: | Wed Apr 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 20 |
| First Name: | Stephen | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Evangelical-soon to be Catholic? (still seeking) |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 07:51 am |
|
Hey everybody, I was just pondering about the claims of every Protestant, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, and even Muslim that, at some point, God's people apostasized (to varying degrees) from the truth for a number of years (usually centuries). I think one of the strongest things pulling me towards Catholicism is my inability to accept this idea (especially in light of "the pillar of truth", "guide you into all truth", "light on the hill", etc. Bible sayings)
Anyway, I was just wondering...what is the largest number of years that God ever let His people apostasize in the Old Testament before restoring the faith through a prophet or something along those lines? It just occurred to me that perhaps "The Great Apostasy" theory might be more obsurd when discussed in light of the time it took God to restore the faith with the Isrealites.
Or am I just grasping at straws here?
|
|
|
Robert
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Germany |
| Posts: | 111 |
| First Name: | Robert | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | The whole spectrum from black to white, now 100% Catholic! |
| Status: |
Online
|
|
Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 09:43 am |
|
Stephen wrote:
I was just pondering about the claims of every Protestant, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, and even Muslim that, at some point, God's people apostasized...
IMO "The Great Apostasy" is nothing more than an invention to justify the apostasy of the various groups you mentioned.
There is absolutely no historical evidence of this so called "The Great Apostasy". In fact Islam uses it as a foundation for their rejection of Christianity. The apostasy in their mind being that the Christians turned the Prophet Jesus into God. Christian groups founded in the so called “reformation” use it as a justification for rejecting the Catholic Church and apostolic succession or as in the case of Joseph Smith, justification for Mormonism.
In the Old (first) Testament, there were any number of “crisis” situations where the majority of the Hebrews turned their back on God. BUT as seen with Noah, Lot, and Moses, it was never all of them! None of these situations every constituted a “Great Apostasy”, just as Aryanism didn’t in the early Church.
Last edited on Tue May 20th, 2008 12:42 pm by Robert
____________________
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1657 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 10:47 pm |
|
Hi Stephen,
Interesting question. I agree with what Robert wrote.
To clarify one thing: not all Protestants believe this, by a long shot. Some think there was an organic development from the previous Catholicism to the Protestant "Reformation" of the 16th century. I used to pretty much believe that myself, and it is held by folks like, e.g., the Protestant historian Philip Schaff. Anti-Catholic Protestants usually believe in a great apostasy (so that Catholics even ceased being Christians), but they are relatively few in number.
I couldn't give exact figures (without doing a lot of research on it!) but it seems to me that the periods of decadence and corruption in the OT were oftentimes about a generation (about 40 years in biblical understanding). I think of, e.g., during the exodus, where God wanted the entire generation to die out because of wickedness, and then the next generation seems to have kept the faith much better.
On the other hand, the northern kingdom (Israel) departed in the 8th century B.C. and was never again "orthodox" in terms of Hebrew religion. So that was definitely a longer term thing. As time went on the kings of the southern kingdom Judah were more frequemtly wicked, with less righteous ones. Whether all the people followed their sins and idolatries is hard to say with certainty. The implication is that this was often the case.
It is the human condition: these periods of decay and revival. But the Church has the promise of the protection of the Holy Spirit, to never fall away (indefectibility). That makes it fundamentally different from OT times, when only a few individuals were filled with the spirit.
Even those who try to pretend that there was a complete apostasy (such as the "trail of blood" or Landmark Baptist thing) have to appeal to groups that didn't even believe (in many respects) as they would, such as the Albigensians or Waldenses. The very desperation to cling to someone who would fit their category -- when in fact the Albigensians were closer to Gnosticism -- shows the implausibility and falsity of the theory.
Last edited on Tue May 20th, 2008 10:50 pm by Dave Armstrong
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
Current time is 03:45 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
