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JillD
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 857 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 06:31 pm |
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I'm having a conversation with a very well-read friend who, in the course of our discussion, said this:
The Orthodox say they are "the Church", once delivered to the saints. Timewise, from the beginning, they certainly have the best cards in their hand.
Why would she make this statement? I thought they were both there in the beginning and that, at one point, the Eastern churches chose to no longer remain under the authority of the Pope. I hope you can help me clear this one up....
I have another comment of hers that I'm going to ask on the Justification thread. (There is one, isn't there??)
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5457 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 07:00 pm |
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I don't think the Catholics or Orthodox are any older. We were once joined in a single Church and for various economic and political reasons the two separated.
A full study of the history of the relationship between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches is necessary to understand the reasons for the separation, but there was a functional separation for many years before the "formal" separation in 1054, which resulted in the mutual excommunications of the pope and the ecumenical patriarch by each other.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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SBC2RCC
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | York, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
| First Name: | Monte | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | was Southern Baptist Minister, now Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Nov 7th, 2006 09:41 pm |
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As I made my journey into a connection to the historic faith of the Apostles, I seriously considered Orthodoxy. BUT, one thing that struck me was the separateness, the emphasis on NOT being in unity with Catholics, especially with the Pope. This struck me as wrong, in light of Jesus prayers for unity. Only at the Catholic Church are they praying for others, and accepting of the faith in Christ that other separated brethren hold. A very different attitude than one finds in a Greek or Russian Orthodox church.
And yes, there was only one true church in the early days, and it had eastern and western branches which had some variations, but shared the same faith, doctrines, etc.
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In Christ,
Monte W
(Formerly on CHN Forum as "Pilgrim Paul"
Minima Maxima Sunt
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Steven Barrett
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 1185 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2006 08:55 am |
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Wow! In all my years of following religious history, I've never come across this kind of question. My dad used to joke that the Orthodox were the "first protestants" because they broke off first. The more I got to learn about Islam has made me wonder if Mohammed was the first protestant since he managed to gather most of the basics of the Faith; only to scramble them up and call them a new "revelation" from God, or " Allah."
All kidding aside, both the western La tin Catholic and Eastern Greek Orthodox "lungs" (as John Paul the Great called them) were born at the same time when Jesus handed the keys to St. Peter.
Since the Good Lord created us in His image, I doubt that He goofed and left out a lung, (or in the case of the Muslims, invented a third "lung".)
Insofar as the Orthodox are concerned, they are to be justly credited for sustaining the Church's eastern/Levantine cultural, etc., contributions to Catholicism. Perhaps the Orthodox' unique practices, vestments, rituals, etc. are indeed "older" but their beliefs aren't. They can only be the same age since they were born of the same Deposit of Faith/Tradition.
The Orthodox made a crucial mistake by maintaining their cozy church/state marriage longer than necessary. If any individual, religious figure, king or other governmental figure and/or body deserves credit for creating the separation of church and state, it was popes of the early middle ages -- long before a retired president from Virginia wrote to a Connecticut baptist church containing that now overused and badly misunderstood phrase about some wall keeping the government out of church business.
Now, if only the Orthodox had a Tom Jefferson to keep the Romanovs and today's Kremlin out of Russian churches!
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"This Old House's" motto is "Measure twice, cut once." My new motto is THINK at least twice or thrice, then you only have to write once, and maybe apologize nonce.
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