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brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 803 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 02:14 pm |
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I read that there is no percentage required of us to give, and that in the apostolic church there was no law about giving, but that for a time one did develop in the church requiring us to give 10 % and that it has been stopped but in some countries where there are certain provisions it is still required. is this true? Would this be an example of a teaching or doctrine being changed? Here are some references from a few places that confused me. Also, it appears that the percentage in the old testament is not agreed on as being 10% by scholars but some claim if you add up all required it would be more like 25 or 33 percent even.
- The Encyclopedia Americana (s.v. "tithe"):
"It (tithing) was not practised in the early Christian church but gradually became common (in the Roman Catholic church in western Europe) by the 6th Century. The Council of Tours in 567 and the 2nd Council of Macon in 585 advocated tithing. Made obligatory by civil law in the Carolingian empire in 765 and in England in the 10th Century... The Reformation did not abolish tithing and the practice was continued in the Roman Catholic church and in Protestant countries (until it was) gradually replaced by other forms of taxation. The Roman Catholic church still prescribes tithes in countries where they are sanctioned by law, and some Protestant bodies consider tithes obligatory."
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- Catholic Encyclopedia of 1912 p. 259 (s.v. “tithe”):
In the beginning [provision] was supplied by the spontaneous support of the faithful. In the course of time, however, as the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to make laws which would insure the proper and permanent support of the clergy. The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law, and early writers speak of it as a divine ordinance and an obligation of the conscience. The earliest positive legislation on the subject seems to be contained in the letter of the bishops assembled at Tours in 567 and the Canons of the Council of Macon in 585.
- The New Catholic Encyclopedia (s.v. “tithe”):
The early Church had no tithing system ... it was not that no need of supporting the Church existed or was recognized, but rather that other means appeared to suffice.
The New Catholic Encyclopedia (p.12):
"In the Deuteromic code the tithe is limited to grain. wine and oil (Deu. 12:6, 11, 17; 14:22). These texts more or less equate the tithe with other ritual offerings and sacrifices." [223] "No law of tithing is found in the New Testament, although the principle of church support is laid down in Matt. 10:10 (see also Luke 10:7) and echoed in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14."
- The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia (re: tithing history):
In the Christian Church, as those who serve the altar should live by the altar (1 Cor., ix, 13), provision of some kind had necessarily to be made for the sacred ministers. In the beginning this was supplied by the spontaneous offerings of the faithful.
[Please note that according to Catholic sources based on historical documentation, the saints including any leadership were supported solely by freewill giving, not the tithe, from the time of the Apostles and for about 500 years, until the Catholic church reinstituted it. They in fact became the appointed priesthood and in many places that were controlled by the Catholic church. It became a state or provincial law that tithing was required. – Additional Comments by Vicki Dillen of the Seek God website]
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According to can. 222 §1, in the Code of Canon Law, "The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers."
No minimum percentage of income has been set. It is left to the conscience of individuals, who should give due consideration to the facts that we depend on God's providence for everything, and that sacrificial giving is a sign of trust in His providence. You can supplement your financial giving with gifts of time and talent.
http://www.newadvent.org
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AggieCatholic
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 82 |
| First Name: | Lance | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | United Methodist to Roman Catholic (Anglican Use) |
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 03:26 pm |
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An verse comes to mind regarding this important topic:
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier things of the law: judgment and mercy and fidelity. (But) these you should have done, without neglecting the others. Matthew 23:23
That being said, do not think that the Church doesn't need your financial support. I lived in Lufkin, TX for three months. There were 2 Catholic Churches in town. One had been there for close to 100 years, the other started just 9 years ago. Since this was a new anomaly in this sparsely Catholic populated town an issue arose about which church one should attend. The priest at the newer church, Fr. Joe, had this to offer. He said that it didn't matter when or where we attended mass. With a big grin on his face he then said, "Just make sure you send you money here."
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What part of, "Hoc est enim Corpus meum" don't you understand?
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JillD
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 768 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 03:44 pm |
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Given the Scriptures in which God promises to multiply the little we give by many-fold, I would like to give it all! But then my family would go homeless, so some practicality is needed. Still you can't outgive God.
It's either buy more "stuff," or give to God, His Church, His people. "Stuff" is gonna burn. The other is for eternity.
Spoken by a middle-aged person who would like to unload 80% of my "stuff."
Jill
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Truthseeker
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 376 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 06:28 pm |
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I'm a terrible tither. I "budget" money for it but make so little, I never have what I budget. On the occasions that I do actually have extra money, I try to tithe more, but many times, I find somewhere else to spend it - kids, spitirtual books, gas for my car, fast food. When I can, I do tithe a little more but am careful not to make it "too much", because my husband thinks it's wasteful spending (as opposed to, say, beer:?), and since I have to argue about EVERYTHING I do that has to do with God, I just don't want to argue about this, too. Sometimes, I give nothing (so embarrasing), sometimes I give $10, $11, $12 (so very rarely), but usually, I give $1 per member of my family, including Mary Erin ($6). I know it's not much, but.....
Love, Laura
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5348 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 12:59 am |
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In Catholic teaching, this is called "Stewardship". We are called to return to the Lord one-tenth of all that has been given to us, and that includes time, talent, and treasure. We don't owe God 10% of our income; we owe God 10% of our life.
TIME: Time spent in prayer, volunteering, teaching children about God, reading scripture, etc., are all Stewardship of Time. God gives us 168 hours a week. We owe God 16.8 hours per week in return.
TALENT: What has God blessed us with? Can we sing, teach, dance, read, pray, garden, do carpentry, cook? Whatever talent we have, we must use a portion in God's praise, perhaps through volunteering to cook for a food bank or repair clothing at the St. Vincent de Paul store, or landscaping the church grounds.
TREASURE: Yes, we need to return a portion of our funds to God as well, but we return in many ways. Donating to charity, to relief organizations, to the Cancer Society or the Girl Scouts to help pay for a campout all are returns to God. Our bishop suggests five percent to the church: a portion to the parish, a portion to the diocese, and a portion to missions and national and international collections like Peter's Pence; and five percent to other worthwhile organizations such as the Red Cross or Food for the Poor.
Then, there are combinations. Suppose our profession is playing music. Well, when we donate money earned performing, we are offering God our time, talent, AND treasure all at the same time! Offering God the fruits of our labors is the same as offering God the time it took to produce that fruit.
So I suggest using 16.8 hours as a guide. How much do you make an hour? How many hours do you spend volunteering? How much in prayer? How much in teaching? How much in evangelizing? When you add up all that you give to God, does it equal 16.8 hours a week of your life? If not, it's not enough.
Or, let's put it another way. If God gave you 10 times what you return, would you starve?
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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