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prairie
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Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 12:23 am |
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Exactly what is the magisterium? Is it a group of people? Is it what those people teach? Is it accurate to say the magisterium is to Congress as the catechism is to a bill of Congress?
Thanks for your answers - I'm confused.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 12:43 am |
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prairie wrote: Exactly what is the magisterium? Is it a group of people? Is it what those people teach? Is it accurate to say the magisterium is to Congress as the catechism is to a bill of Congress?
Thanks for your answers - I'm confused.
Hi, Prairie, welcome to CHN. We're happy to have you here with us.
The Magisterium is the teaching authority of the Church. Here's an article from EWTN that explains it.
In a nutshell, the Magisterium is made up of the bishops of the Church, in union with the pope, who are protected from error when defining doctrine on matters of faith and morals. As a result, doctrinal teachings are infallible. The pope is also infallible under certain circumstances on matters of faith and morals.
The Catechism is a collection of the teachings of the Church. Comparing Congress to the Church is not a valid comparison, and a bill to the Catechism is also not valid.
The Magisterium would be more like all of the governments of the United States -- local, state, and federal, including all of the judges; and the Catechism would be more like a summary of the entire collection of laws, civil and criminal, and including enacted law, case law, and common law. And even that is not really a valid comparison.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 12:55 am |
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Hello, prairie. Welcome to the CHN Forum. Glad to meet you. We hope you’ll find our company worthwhile.
Here’s some primary documentation from The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):
The Magisterium of the Church
CCC 85 “The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.” This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”
87 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”, the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
88 The Church’s Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these.…
95 “It is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the salvation of souls.
So the word magisterium may be defined as “the living teaching office of the Church.” This authority is embodied in the bishops of the Church. It functions together with scripture and tradition to constitute the comprehensive authority provided to the Church by God to preserve, protect and teach the divine revelation he has entrusted to it.
David
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prairie
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Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 12:08 pm |
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Thank you. Both your replies are helpful.
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Angie_Rivas1
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 03:41 pm |
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I know this is an embarrasing question coming from a person who has been a catholic all her life, but here it goes. How many dogmas/doctrines are there? Where can I find them? Just to clarify, a dogma can't be changed or eliminated, right?
I believe Mary was raised to heaven in body and spirit, meaning she did not have a human death, is this a doctrine, too?
Thanks for helping me understand my faith 
Angie
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 04:32 pm |
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There is no official compilation of dogmas or dogmatic texts, Angie, but there have been several unofficial ones.
The most famous of these is The Sources of Catholic Dogma (Enchiridion Symbolorum) by a German priest/scholar of the 19th century by the name of Henry Denzinger; the work is therefore popularly referred to as “Denzinger.” Unfortunately, because this work is still in print, it is not available in English on the internet. (It is available in Spanish, however, for those able to read that language.) Too, it is quite lengthy and was really meant as a reference book for scholars.
There is, however, a handy list of dogmas excerpted from a book called Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, written by another German priest/scholar about 55 years ago. This won’t give you any details or explanations, but you can at least see more or less what is considered dogma in the Church today. (Note that this book is also still in print. The excerpt complies with the copyright because it is short and contains a credit line.)
Dogmas, once published, cannot be changed because they are definitive. They can, however, be amplified, explained and even reworded to meet unforeseen difficulties of a later age.
Yes, the dogma of the Assumption of Mary into heaven refers to both her body and her soul. This is exactly what all the elect (those who will enter heaven) will experience at the end of time. Mary, by a special privilege, did not have to wait. It is not known whether she suffered death or was taken up without dying. There are traditions and arguments on both sides of the issue, and the question was intentionally left open in the proclamation of the dogma.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 04:47 pm |
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Angie_Rivas1 wrote: I know this is an embarrasing question coming from a person who has been a catholic all her life, but here it goes. How many dogmas/doctrines are there? Where can I find them?
The only "official" source I know of is the new U.S. Catholic Catechism for Adults, which includes a section on doctrine in each chapter. It does not distinguish doctrine from dogma, as the difference is irrelevant.
The only difference between doctrine and dogma is the formal method of pronouncement. For example, the books of the bible (the Canon of Scripture) was doctrine for a thousand years before it was declared dogma by the Council of Trent. The doctrines of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption were universally held for a millennium or more before being declared dogma.
A web site called Catholic First has a list of Church dogma, but it's not an official source. I don't see anything in the list that I think is not declared dogmatically, but I can't say for sure that the list is complete. The list is taken from Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr. Ludwig Ott, which is considered a valuable source, but again is not an official Church publication.
Just to clarify, a dogma can't be changed or eliminated, right?
Neither a doctrine nor a dogma can be changed or eliminated. Again, the only difference between the two is the formality of their pronouncement. A doctrine becomes a dogma if it is formally pronounced either by a council or by the pope. While neither doctrine nor dogma can be changed or eliminated, further study can lead to changes in expression and understanding. For example, the understanding of the dogma of papal infallibility may be refined as part of the reunification with the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches when that blessed event takes place.
I believe Mary was raised to heaven in body and spirit, meaning she did not have a human death, is this a doctrine, too?
Actually, no. The dogma of the Assumption of Mary is that she was taken body and soul into heaven "at the end of her earthly life". The Church does not define whether this happened after her death or before, just "at the end of her earthly life". Eastern Christians refer to the Assumption as the "Dormition of Mary" which means "falling asleep" but again, there is no doctrinal claim regarding whether her human body actually experienced death.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Jackie
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Posted: Wed May 16th, 2007 10:21 am |
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Okay, you made me look, now I've got a question. It may sound dumb but indulge me!
http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/churchdocuments/dogmas.cfm
Under the "Eucharist as Sacrifice", is it my understanding that the Sacrifice of the Mass expiates sins for those who partake? Han?
Does this include those who have not gone to confession? Those who were once catholic but have strayed and are at the Mass for a specific celebratory reason? (Confirmation ect.) A protestant friend of mine argued that point with me one day saying "just because we practice out religion, it does not save us".
I am coming to the conclusion that, being a cradle catholic does not make me smart on everything regarding our faith.
And I thought I was smarter than that!!!! UGH
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed May 16th, 2007 10:50 am |
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Jackie wrote: Okay, you made me look, now I've got a question. It may sound dumb but indulge me!
http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/churchdocuments/dogmas.cfm
Under the "Eucharist as Sacrifice", is it my understanding that the Sacrifice of the Mass expiates sins for those who partake? Han?
Does this include those who have not gone to confession? Those who were once catholic but have strayed and are at the Mass for a specific celebratory reason? (Confirmation ect.) A protestant friend of mine argued that point with me one day saying "just because we practice out religion, it does not save us".
Eucharist forgives sins for those who are in the state of grace, meaning those without mortal sin. For those who are guilty of grave sin, the Sacrament of Penance is required for forgiveness. So the answer to your question is no, those who have "strayed" or otherwise committed mortal sin do not receive forgiveness through the Eucharist.
I am coming to the conclusion that, being a cradle catholic does not make me smart on everything regarding our faith. And I thought I was smarter than that!!!! UGH
I have actively studied our faith for 40 years and last year completed a Masters' level program, and there is much more I don't know than I do. None of us will ever learn it all. Our faith is much too deep.
BTW, this question was posted under the "Magisterium" section, when it properly belongs in the "Eucharist" forum. I can't move it because it is posted as a follow-up to a previous message. In the future, if your question is not directly in the same area as the original message, please hit "New Topic" instead of "Reply" and that way we can move it to the proper area if necessary. It also lets someone visiting our forum find your message more easily by subject. The subject for this message is "What is the magisterium?" and as you can see, that will not help anyone else to find this answer. (I don't mean to fuss, but proper organization helps most of our visitors who never register and ask questions to find the answers they are looking for.)
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Jackie
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Posted: Wed May 16th, 2007 04:25 pm |
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K yer right...even though I was under Magisteruim (teaching/dogma) my question would be more benificial under " Eucharist " that way more can persuse our question/answer. Okay. Im new at this and you are helping me to navigate properly....no fuss
40 years! Alright, well then, it's a journey to be sure. Thanks cajunrick
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed May 16th, 2007 05:21 pm |
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Jackie wrote: Im new at this and you are helping me to navigate properly....no fuss
No fuss. You'll know I'm fussing when I make reference to "that crazy Cajun moderator."
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Angie_Rivas1
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Posted: Thu May 17th, 2007 01:57 am |
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"While neither doctrine nor dogma can be changed or eliminated, further study can lead to changes in expression and understanding."
Let's assume that there is debate on an specific detail of a particle dogma, what should I believe? Am I given the freedom to take any side without falling into disobedience? Again, with our Mother, some people believe she did not experience human death (I am one of them. This belief was passed on by my mother.), is this bad interpretation of the actual doctrine?  What about the "sticky" parts of a doctrine?
Angie
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu May 17th, 2007 09:44 am |
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Angie_Rivas1 wrote: with our Mother, some people believe she did not experience human death (I am one of them. This belief was passed on by my mother.), is this bad interpretation of the actual doctrine?
No. Whether or not she actually died is not part of the Catholic doctrine, which reads "at the end of her earthly life." You must believe that she was taken bodily into heaven "at the end of her earthly life" but you are free to believe her heart stopped beating first, or not. This is not a "sticky point" of doctrine, it's an undefined, related question. Some traditions even say she was buried prior to her Assumption. Others say she merely "fell asleep" as the Eastern name ("Dormition") indicates.
Evolution vs. creationism is another undefined area of Catholic doctrine. We believe that God created everything from nothing, and that he infused a single pair of humans ("Adam and Eve") with an immortal soul, and from them descended the entire human race. The Church accepts the revelation of science as a true revelation from God, and so accepts the possibility of evolution, but we are free to believe God directly created the earth in six days, resting on the seventh. That's not part of the doctrine.
In undefined matters like these, we are free to believe as we choose. But where the Church has defined doctrine, debate is no longer permitted. The matter is settled.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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