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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1657 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Wed Nov 7th, 2007 04:49 pm |
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This is an abridged version of a new article on my blog:
It's amazing how often this assertion is made: that the great Church father St. Augustine (354-430) was closer to Protestant beliefs than Catholic, or that (a less sweeping claim) he was at least closer to Protestants on some key divisive issues such as sola Scriptura and sola fide. I will simply list below his own words, categorized by doctrine, from my latest book: The Church Fathers Were Catholic. You be the judge.
Detail of Botticelli's painting of St. Augustine (1480)
Church (Authority)?
God has placed this authority first of all in his Church. (Explanations of the Psalms, Tract 103:8, PL 37:520-521; in Congar, 392)
It is obvious; the faith allows it; the Catholic Church approves; it is true. (Sermon 117, 6)
Church (Scripture Interpreter)?
To be sure, although on this matter, we cannot quote a clear example taken from the canonical Scriptures, at any rate, on this question, we are following the true thought of Scriptures when we observe what has appeared good to the universal Church which the authority of these same Scriptures recommends to you; thus, since Holy Scripture cannot be mistaken, anyone fearing to be misled by the obscurity of this question has only to consult on this same subject this very Church which the Holy Scriptures point out without ambiguity. (Against Cresconius I:33; in Eno, 134)
Eternal Security / Perseverence?
But if someone already regenerate and justified should, of his own will, relapse into his evil life, certainly that man cannot say: “I have not received’; because he lost the grace he received from God and by his own free choice went to evil. (Admonition and Grace [c. 427], 6,9; Jurgens, III, 157)
Eucharist (Adoration)?
For He took upon Him earth from earth; because flesh is from earth, and He received flesh from the flesh of Mary. And because He walked here in very flesh, and gave that very flesh to us to eat for our salvation; and no one eateth that flesh, unless he hath first worshipped: we have found out in what sense such a footstool of our Lord’s may be worshipped, and not only that we sin not in worshipping it, but that we sin in not worshipping. (Exposition on Psalm XCIX, 8; NPNF 1, Vol. VIII)
Eucharist (Real, Substantial, Physical Presence)?
“And was carried in His Own Hands:” how “carried in His Own Hands”? Because when He commended His Own Body and Blood, He took into His Hands that which the faithful know; and in a manner carried Himself, when He said, “This is My Body.” (Exposition on Psalm XXXIV, 1; NPNF 1, Vol. VIII)
Eucharist (Salvific)?
Whence, however, was this derived, but from that primitive, as I suppose, and apostolic tradition, by which the Churches of Christ maintain it to be an inherent principle, that without baptism and partaking of the supper of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and everlasting life? (On Forgiveness of Sins and Baptism, 1:34; NPNF 1, V, 28)
Faith Alone (Sola Fide)?
This must not be understood in such a way as to say that a man who has received faith and continues to live is righteous, even though he leads a wicked life. (Questions 76.1; commenting on Romans 3:28; Bray, 105; Defferari, Vol. 70, 195)
Unintelligent persons, however, with regard to the apostle's statement: "We conclude that a man is justified by faith without the works of the law," have thought him to mean that faith suffices to a man, even if he lead a bad life, and has no good works. (A Treatise on Grace and Free Will; Chapters 18; NPNF 1, Vol. V)
[E]ven those good works of ours, which are recompensed with eternal life, belong to the grace of God, . . . the apostle himself, after saying, "By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast;" saw, of course, the possibility that men would think from this statement that good works are not necessary to those who believe, but that faith alone suffices for them . . . "Not of works" is spoken of the works which you suppose have their origin in yourself alone; but you have to think of works for which God has moulded (that is, has formed and created) you. . . . grace is for grace, as if remuneration for righteousness; in order that it may be true, because it is true, that God "shall reward every man according to his works." (A Treatise on Grace and Free Will; Chapter 20; NPNF 1, Vol. V)
Irresistible Grace?
He who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but He does not justify you without your willing it. (Sermons, 169, 3; Jurgens, III, 29)
Mary (Sinlessness)?
We must except the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin. Well, then, if, with this exception of the Virgin, we could only assemble together all the forementioned holy men and women, and ask them whether they lived without sin whilst they were in this life, what can we suppose would be their answer? (A Treatise on Nature and Grace, chapter 42 [XXXVI]; NPNF 1, Vol. V)
Mass, Sacrifice of?
Thus He is both the Priest who offers and the Sacrifice offered. And He designed that there should be a daily sign of this in the sacrifice of the Church, which, being His body, learns to offer herself through Him. Of this true Sacrifice the ancient sacrifices of the saints were the various and numerous signs; . . . To this supreme and true sacrifice all false sacrifices have given place. (City of God, Book X, 20; NPNF 1, Vol. II)
Merit: Opposed to Sola Gratia?
The Lord made Himself a debtor not by receiving something, but by promising something. One does not say to Him "Pay for what You received," but, "Pay what You promised." (Commentary on Psalms 83:16; Jurgens, III, 19)You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts. (En. in Ps. 102:7; cf. Ep. 194, 5, 19)
Someone says to me: “Since we are acted upon, it is not we who act.” I answer, “No, you both act and are acted upon; and if you are acted upon by the good, you act properly. For the spirit of God who moves you, by so moving, is your Helper. The very term helper makes it clear that you yourself are doing something.” (Sermons 156, 11; Jurgens, III, 28)
The Papacy and Roman ("Apostolic") See (Primacy of)?
Argue with them when they speak against grace, and if they persist, bring them to us. You see, there have already been two councils about this matter, and their decisions sent to the Apostolic See; from there rescripts have been sent back here. The case is finished; if only the error were finished too, sometime! So, let us all warn them to take notice of this, teach them to learn the lesson of it, pray for them to change their ideas. (Sermon 131, 10, in John Rotelle, editor, The Works of St. Augustine - Sermons, 11 volumes, Part 3, New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993, Vol. 4:322; the saying, "Rome has spoken; the case is closed" is a paraphrase of part of this sermon. Jurgens, [III, 28] translates it as "two Councils have already been sent to the Apostolic See; and from there rescripts too have come. The matter is at an end; would that the error too might sometime be at an end.")
Prayers for the Dead?
It is not to be doubted that the dead are aided by prayers of the holy church, and by the salutary sacrifice, and by the alms, which are offered for their spirits . . . For this, which has been handed down by the Fathers, the universal church observes. (Sermon 172, in Joseph Berington and John Kirk, The Faith of Catholics, three volumes, London: Dolman, 1846; I: 439)
Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. (Sermons: 159, 1; Jurgens, III, 29)
For some of the dead, indeed, the prayer of the Church or of pious individuals is heard; but it is for those who, having been regenerated in Christ, did not spend their life so wickedly that they can be judged unworthy of such compassion, nor so well that they can be considered to have no need of it. (The City of God, XXI, 24, 2; NPNF 1, Vol. II)
Purgatory?
The man who perhaps has not cultivated the land and has allowed it to be overrun with brambles has in this life the curse of his land on all his works, and after this life he will have either purgatorial fire or eternal punishment. (Genesis Defended Against the Manicheans, 2, 20, 30)
As also, after the resurrection, there will be some of the dead to whom, after they have endured the pains proper to the spirits of the dead, mercy shall be accorded, and acquittal from the punishment of the eternal fire. For were there not some whose sins, though not remitted in this life, shall be remitted in that which is to come, it could not be truly said, “They shall not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in that which is to come.” (The City of God, XXI, 24, 2; NPNF 1, Vol. II)
Relics?
But, nevertheless, we do not build temples, and ordain priests, rites, and sacrifices for these same martyrs; for they are not our gods, but their God is our God. Certainly we honor their reliquaries, as the memorials of holy men of God who strove for the truth even to the death of their bodies, that the true religion might be made known, and false and fictitious religions exposed. (City of God, Book VIII, chapter 27; NPNF 1, Vol. II)
When the bishop Projectus was bringing the relics of the most glorious martyr Stephen to the waters of Tibilis, a great concourse of people came to meet him at the shrine. There a blind woman entreated that she might be led to the bishop who was carrying the relics. He gave her the flowers he was carrying. She took them, applied them to her eyes, and forthwith saw. (City of God, Book XXII, chapter 8; NPNF 1, Vol. II)
Saints (Invocation / Intercession of)?
For it is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended. (Sermons: 159, 1; Jurgens, III, 29)
Saints (Veneration of)?
No one officiating at the altar in the saints’ burying-place ever says, We bring an offering to thee, O Peter! or O Paul! or O Cyprian! The offering is made to God, who gave the crown of martyrdom, while it is in memory of those thus crowned. The emotion is increased by the associations of the place, and love is excited both towards those who are our examples, and towards Him by whose help we may follow such examples. We regard the martyrs with the same affectionate intimacy that we feel towards holy men of God in this life, when we know that their hearts are prepared to endure the same suffering for the truth of the gospel. There is more devotion in our feeling towards the martyrs, because we know that their conflict is over; and we can speak with greater confidence in praise of those already victors in heaven, than of those still combating here. What is properly divine worship, which the Greeks call latria, and for which there is no word in Latin, both in doctrine and in practice, we give only to God. To this worship belongs the offering of sacrifices; as we see in the word idolatry, which means the giving of this worship to idols. Accordingly we never offer, or require any one to offer, sacrifice to a martyr, or to a holy soul, or to any angel. (Against Faustus, Book XX, section 21; NPNF 1, Vol. IV)
Scripture Alone (Sola Scriptura)?
And thus a man who is resting upon faith, hope, and love, and who keeps a firm hold upon these, does not need the Scriptures except for the purpose of instructing others. Accordingly, many live without copies of the Scriptures, even in solitude, on the strength of these three graces. (On Christian Doctrine, I, 39:43; NPNF 1, Vol. II, 534)
Tradition (Infallible and Authoritative)?
I believe that this practice [of not rebaptizing heretics and schismatics] comes from apostolic tradition, just as so many other practices not found in their writings nor in the councils of their successors, but which, because they are kept by the whole Church everywhere, are believed to have been commanded and handed down by the Apostles themselves. (On Baptism, 2, 7, 12; Jurgens, III, 66; cf. NPNF 1, IV, 430)
Tradition (Oral)?
. . . the custom, which is opposed to Cyprian, may be supposed to have had its origin in apostolic tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings. (On Baptism, 5, 23:31; NPNF 1, IV, 475)
=========================
For the complete paper, see:
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/11/st-augustine-was-catholic-not-proto.html
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 477 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 11:50 am |
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| Good to know, since I picked him for my confirmation name!
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"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
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BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 827 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 12:50 pm |
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Dave, where and how do you get you material for your books? Do you use public libraries, university libraries, Rome, on-line, Etc.? Also, which languages do you work in/with? Also (#2), how long does it take you to crank out one of your books? Also (#3), how many books have you written and how many do you have on the market at the present? (Aren't you glad I am NOT the snoopy type?) 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1657 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 08:38 pm |
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Hi Cliff,
Dave, where and how do you get you material for your books? Do you use public libraries, university libraries, Rome, on-line, Etc.?
Virtually all the Internet and my own library of some 2000 books. A lot of the stuff is public domain and much of that is online now. Occasionally I use old notes taken from library books (e.g., Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit or University of Detroit: a Jesuit college). On one occasion I borrowed about twenty books from my friend Al Kresta (now a Catholic talk show host). My last book about the Church fathers was really easy because the entire 38-volume set of the fathers is online. And there are more patristic resources online beyond that, too. That book was largely cut-and-paste. I consider it more of a reference work. Most of my writing was in the first chapter, that was more than 100 pages on the crucial Bible and Tradition issue.
Also, which languages do you work in/with?
English. That was easy . . . I have some knowledge of Latin from going to Latin Mass for more than 17 years now.
Also (#2), how long does it take you to crank out one of your books?
Depends on whether I'm doing it on my own or with an editor. The first (Biblical Defense of Catholicism) took three years (first draft: 1994; revised, shorter version: 1996) because I would write a chapter for a few weeks and then a few months later write another one. At first, I was using a typewriter. I didn't even have a computer yet. I had a full-time delivery job in those days. Originally I wasn't even intending to write a book. I was doing "treatises" to present to my Protestant friends. Then folks started suggesting that I make a book out of it, and so I did! The Catechism came out after I finished the first draft (750 pages!), so I incorporated references to that in the revised edition.
Many subsequent books were compilations from Internet writings so they just took a few days to edit and put together. The hard work had all been previously done, over years of constant posting on my website.
The last two with Sophia Institute Press (The Catholic Verses and One-Minute Apologist) took 3-4 months each of solid work with my wonderfully helpful editor, Todd Aglialoro. The last one was very difficult because I had to condense every topic into two pages and follow a standard format for each section. Tough! But very rewarding when done . . .
The fathers' book took about three weeks because of the nature of it. My latest is about Martin Luther. I've worked on that for a little over a week and it'll probably take about two weeks more if I can get solid work time in: three at the most. I can usually crank out a chapter a day (there will be ten total). Again, it is mostly modified from existing materials: mostly editing rather than new writing. I follow a standard formatting format with my Lulu books: Times New Roman 12, standard spacing, chapter title size, etc.
Also (#3), how many books have you written and how many do you have on the market at the present? (Aren't you glad I am NOT the snoopy type?)
Hey, questions are good. Gives me something to do and every author loves to talk about his books! They feel almost like "children."
At present I've written 15: four with "real" publishers (Sophia Institute Press: 3 / Our Sunday Visitor: 1) and the other eleven self-published with Lulu Press (a real class operation, and easy to do, and no cost!). The Luther book (Lulu) will be #16, and Sophia is talking about another one, about "how and where we got the Bible". That'll make it #17. Other topical books are planned from existing materials (Eucharist, Mary, possibly the papacy).
I also have chapters in two other books (Surprised by Truth; The Catholic Answer Book of Mary).
All 15 are on the market, in paperback. I paid $100 each for five or six of the Lulu books to be listed on amazon. Then I discovered that didn't help much, so I didn't do it for the rest. My Sophia books and The New Catholic Answer Bible are often in the Top 100 on amazon for the category of Catholic theology (most of the time one or more appear in the Top 25). I hope to soon do some advertising, to get more sales, especially for my own Lulu books. That'll probably be on the Catholic Exchange website.
I also sell all 11 of my self-published books as e-books (Word or PDF): 11 for $15. I'll be adding the Luther book to that, making it 12 for $15. One can also purchase any of the Lulu books as a PDF file for $3.00, through Lulu, or as a paperback ($15.95 or $16.95, depending on length). I sell Biblical Defense as an e-book separately for $5.00. The other two Sophia books and the Bible are available in paperback only.
Thanks for asking! It's a great way to make a living: to be able to share your thoughts and have people actually be interested enough to read them and sometimes even be influenced by the material. It's been a long haul but I'm really happy with my life and my career as it stands now. All glory to God for His gifts and provisions!
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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