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calatorul
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 02:36 am |
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Continued from the NJB thread.
The Ignatius RSV-CE, 2nd Ed. was recommended to me today. From what I've read on other threads, it seems to be quite popular.
I have an older RSV. What are some of the textual differences?
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 06:28 am |
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I mentioned something about this question in the Jerusalem Bible thread, since you commented on it there as well. But I will be more specific here.
Basically, the job of the team working on the 2nd Edition was to update the language of the original RSV-CE, eliminating the thees and thous, plus assorted other archaic or obscure language, and in the process make the result compliant to the Vatican regulations on liturgical versions of scripture. In other words, the object was to produce a version that could be used in the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours, as well as for devotional reading, that would be entirely in accordance with the official principles and policies of the Catholic Church. To date it is the only English version that has actually qualified. All others have been grandfathered in because they were produced before the latest regulations went into effect, and it is known that the Vatican had issues with every one of them earlier on.
If you look hard, you will find that the 2nd Edition also restores the traditional readings of a number of well-known passages. For instance, the RSV-CE has in Isaiah 7:14, “Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel,” while the 2nd Edition reads, “Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel,” relegating “young woman” to a footnote. This was done, following the Vatican rule that the doctrinal significance of the readings be given proper prominance. Some versions are notorious for obscuring doctrine, especially between an Old Testament passage and its corresponding use in the New Testament. An example of this would be the New Jerusalem Bible’s rendering of the present verse: “…the young woman is with child and will give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel.” This “is with child” assumes an entirely different (and speculative) meaning for the passage than the traditional Messianic one. Under the current regulations, the Vatican would be forced to disqualify such an interpretation.
David
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calatorul
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 09:50 am |
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So, on that, the 2nd Edition conforms to:
- literal translation
- doctrinally sound
- modern language
- not PC
Some of the latter addresses the problems with the NRSV as well as the NJB. So far, the case seems to be strongly in favor of this version. I think I'll be purchasing this.
Is the 2nd Edition the only one with the images of the four cherubim and Christ, IC XC, on the cover? Some are still wrapped in plastic and I want to be sure to buy the right one.
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That particular verse (Isa 7:14) is another one of those cases where the sense of the New Testament agrees with the Septuagint against the Masoretic:
Greek parthenos = "virgin"; whereas Hebrew almah = "young woman". Both could rightly be translated "virgin", but in the case of almah, it could be used to mean a recently married woman. The Greek parthenos refers to a yet to be married woman. The latter agrees with Matthew and Church Teaching.
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"By the higher mystical ascent from matters that concern ourselves to that transcendent nature we gain a knowledge of the Word,... by observing in our own nature certain shadows and resemblances of His ineffable power." St. Gregory of Nyssa
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 01:25 pm |
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So, on that, the 2nd Edition conforms to:
- literal translation
- doctrinally sound
- modern language
- not PC
Some of the latter addresses the problems with the NRSV as well as the NJB.
Correct. The NJB is too free to serve as a liturgical version, while the NRSV is heavily committed to genderless language. The NJB has some genderless language as well.
Is the 2nd Edition the only one with the images of the four cherubim and Christ, IC XC, on the cover?
Yes, it is the only one with that design. The “cherubim” — note the scrolls — are actually the traditional symbols for the four evangelists (a man for Matthew because his gospel begins with Christ’s genealogy; a lion for Mark, because his begins with the preaching of John the Baptist, who came out of the wilderness and spoke boldly; an ox for Luke, because his begins with the sacrifice of Zacharias; and an eagle for John, because his gospel soars high with the eternal generation and incarnation of the Son of God). The wings, like the halos, represent holiness and glory, not an angelic nature. The central Christ figure is a westernized rendering of a popular icon of Christ the Teacher (from the Greek tradition). The letters IC XC are the traditional abbreviation of the name Jesus Christ in Greek. The bible text is from John 8:12, chosen to reflect on Christ’s office as teacher, bringing his divine light to souls as they travel the road to salvation. Interestingly, the phrase “the light of life” occurs in two other places in scripture: Job 33:30 and Psalm 56:13. Both seem to have a meaning similar to the verse in John.
The hand of Christ is indicating, in Greek fashion, with the two extended fingers, the two natures of Christ (divine and human), and with the other fingers, the blessed Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). This hand gesture is used by Orthodox and Eastern Catholics while making the sign of the cross. Note also Christ’s eyes: the right looking straight at the beholder, but the left looking away. This is a traditional indication of the justice and mercy of God: with one eye he looks at your sins and demands an accounting; with the other he forgives and disregards your sins, allowing us, though unworthy, to approach him and enjoy the fruits of heaven.
The choice between ‘almah and parthenos is, in the original texts, not really significant; a young woman in the Law and in devout Jewish society would in fact be expected to be a virgin. But the rendering in English makes a big difference in how we understand the passage.
David
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japhy
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 12:27 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote: Note also Christ’s eyes: the right looking straight at the beholder, but the left looking away. This is a traditional indication of the justice and mercy of God: with one eye he looks at your sins and demands an accounting; with the other he forgives and disregards your sins, allowing us, though unworthy, to approach him and enjoy the fruits of heaven. WOW! That is so subtle in most icons I've seen I've never noticed it, so I didn't know about its signifance either. Thanks for sharing that bit of info, David.
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calatorul
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 12:55 pm |
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I found this comparison list comparing the various RSV's and one Douay-Rheims. It doesn't fit the window perfectly, so you have to scroll right to see all of it.
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"By the higher mystical ascent from matters that concern ourselves to that transcendent nature we gain a knowledge of the Word,... by observing in our own nature certain shadows and resemblances of His ineffable power." St. Gregory of Nyssa
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 01:20 pm |
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Interesting. I’ve downloaded both pages for later perusal. It looks like it would make a good table if one were to take the trouble to set it up.
David
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 06:41 pm |
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| Very interesting thread. Thanks to all!
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setapart
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 11:01 pm |
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Thanks, David for the explanations of the symbolson the cover of the Ignatius RSV-CE, 2nd Ed. I knew some of them but not as expansive as you have described. I have owned one for a while now and I think it is a great translation. I love the cover on it because it opens the doors for conversations about what they symbolize. Now I will be even more prepared. I bring that Bible with me to the Kairos Prayer and Share meetings at the State Jail that we meet at and it has providied me with an opportunity to share with the inmates a Catholic perspective of how to approach the Word of God and the need to allow it to take root in our lives.
God Bless,
Bill
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But for you who fear my name, the Sun of Righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. And you will go free, leaping with joy like calves let out to pasture. Mal 4:2
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True Image
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 11:14 pm |
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Is there a travel size edition of the RSV-CE 2nd Edition? I have the softcover, and I know that it is available in hardcover. Both of these are a little large to carry when travelling or commuting. I would like a smaller, zippered size for DH.
I know that the NAB has a small zippered travel size, but I would prefer the RSV-CE 2nd Ed if possible.
Anne
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 11:57 pm |
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There is a small New Testament with Psalms, available in leather binding or paperback. No zipper, though.
David
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calatorul
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Posted: Thu Sep 11th, 2008 06:40 pm |
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japhy wrote: David W. Emery wrote: Note also Christ’s eyes: the right looking straight at the beholder, but the left looking away. This is a traditional indication of the justice and mercy of God: with one eye he looks at your sins and demands an accounting; with the other he forgives and disregards your sins, allowing us, though unworthy, to approach him and enjoy the fruits of heaven. WOW! That is so subtle in most icons I've seen I've never noticed it, so I didn't know about its signifance either. Thanks for sharing that bit of info, David.
I need verification, but I recall reading that Christ Pantocrator is the oldest extant icon of Christ.
You know, I never knew that the eyes were intentionally written that way. Thanks.
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"By the higher mystical ascent from matters that concern ourselves to that transcendent nature we gain a knowledge of the Word,... by observing in our own nature certain shadows and resemblances of His ineffable power." St. Gregory of Nyssa
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 04:30 am |
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I recall reading that Christ Pantocrator is the oldest extant icon of Christ.
From what I have been able to determine, icon writing began in the third century. Following are a couple of links to some very old icons in Egypt, where they have been exceptionally well preserved.
Byzantine
Coptic
I never knew that the eyes were intentionally written that way.
Everything about a properly written icon is supposed to be symbolic and purposeful. Its aim is to bring the mind to dwell on the divine Lord, and in so doing, to bring the heart in line with the will of the Savior.
David
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