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Jackie
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| Location: | Jersey Shore, New Jersey USA |
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| First Name: | Jackie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 08:11 pm |
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One of the readings at my Fathers funeral Mass was from the Book of Wisdom 3:1-6,9
A friend, newly worshiping in a local protestant church asked where that was in the Bible. I told him that I thought it was in Psalms but in trying to look it up for myself, I am having a hard time. And this old Cruden's (UGH) Concordance is NOT HELPING!!!!!! Hate it... Any suggestions for a good reliable Catholic Concordance would be helpful too.
Anybody wanna help me with this. My friends are coming for dinner tonight and I am off a running again with errands. Sorry to dump N run but I know you guys are sharp. Thanks for the help  J
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cyanheaven
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| First Name: | Callie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist/ Bapticostal/ Baptist/ "BaptoCatholic" |
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Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 08:44 pm |
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heres a list of the Widsom books in the Catholic bible:
Job
Psalm (The Davidic Psalter) see below
Proverbs
Ecclesiastes
Canticles (Canticle of Canticles or Song of Songs or Song of Solomon)
Wisdom (Wisdom of Solomon) [deuterocononical]
Ecclesiasticus (Sirach or The Wisdom of Sirach) [deuterocononical]
The Old Testament is broken up into different collections of books, the first being The Law (Genisis through Deuteronomy), then the Historical Books (Joshua through Esther), Wisdom (see above), Prophets (Major then Minor) and Maccabees (Isaiah through 2 Maccabees).
I used to love studying the different canons in the church. In fact, I remember there being a church in Turkey that still does not recognize the book of Revelations. Can anyone expound upon this?
Last edited on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 08:45 pm by cyanheaven
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kersca
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| First Name: | Adam | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 08:53 pm |
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Jackie,
The book of Wisdom is likely not found in your Protestant friend's Bible. Their canon is slightly different (narrower). We have several books in Catholic Bibles as well as additional exerpts to Daniel and Esther that they do not claim as scripture. This is a fascinating subject if you take the time with it. I could go into long explanations but those can be found elsewhere on this sight.
Adam
Last edited on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 08:55 pm by kersca
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cyanheaven
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| First Name: | Callie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist/ Bapticostal/ Baptist/ "BaptoCatholic" |
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Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 08:59 pm |
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Opps, good call for noticing that Jackie's friend was Protestant. I neglected to notice that.
It is quite facinating isn't it Adam?
Basicly Jackie, Luther decided to clean up the canon in his effort to "reform" and as a result a few of the books (all of those deutrocononical) and even sections of cononical books were removed.
Oh something else of note that may not be elsewhere on this site. There is an edition of the bible we used all throughout my college degree, the New Oxford Annotated Bible (lovingly refered to as the NOAB), it includes all of the books of the Catholic cannon (and i believe Orthodox books as well), without being explicitly Catholic. It's an academic work, to be sure but the essays in the back are quite good, especially the one regarding the different canons, including the Protestant split. It might be useful/interesting for those apologetics or seekers who would find it useful not being packaged as strictly Catholic.
Just a thought.
Last edited on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 09:17 pm by cyanheaven
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Jackie
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| Location: | Jersey Shore, New Jersey USA |
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| First Name: | Jackie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 11:34 pm |
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Yes friends, I have explained as much to my friend but we both agree seeing the vs "As gold in the furnace, He proved them, and as sacrificial offerings He took them unto himself." -- in the protestant bible. The problem I was getting into was if this particular verse was gathered into another grouping or "author" during the reformation?
It is my understanding that the protestant bibles refer to the Wisdom books as only Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs?!! This was my understanding of the NIV atleast.
At any rate, I was trying to have my friends understand how the books got shifted around (and dropped) because Luther didn't "recognize" them. I'll have to work that out but just incase we get into a discussion tonight I was looking for a tch more background. My friends are fallen away Catholics. Crap, I even hate saying that, fallen away Catholics! UGH
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Pani Rose
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| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 02:25 am |
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| It is also called the Wisdom of Solomon - One of the deutero-canonical writings of the Old Testament, placed in the Vulgate between the Canticle of Canticles and Ecclesiasticus.
The Book of Wisdom
Introduction
[font=""]The Book of Wisdom was written about a hundred years before the coming of Christ. Its author, whose name is not known to us, was a member of the Jewish community at Alexandria, in Egypt. He wrote in Greek, in a style patterned on that of Hebrew verse. At times he speaks in the person of Solomon, placing his teachings on the lips of the wise king of Hebrew tradition in order to emphasize their value. His profound knowledge of the earlier Old Testament writings is reflected in almost every line of the book, and marks him, like Ben Sira, as an outstanding representative of religious devotion and learning among the sages of postexilic Judaism.
The primary purpose of the sacred author was the edification of his co-religionists in a time when they had experienced suffering and oppression, in part at least at the hands of apostate fellow Jews. To convey his message he made use of the most popular religious themes of his time, namely the splendor and worth of divine wisdom (Wisdom 6:22-11:1), the glorious events of the Exodus (Wisdom 11:2-16; 12:23-27; 15:18 19:22), God's mercy (Wisdom 11:17-12:22), the folly of idolatry (Wisdom 13:1-15:17), and the manner in which God's justice is vindicated in rewarding or punishing the individual soul (Wisdom 1:1-6:21). The first ten chapters especially form a preparation for the fuller teachings of Christ and his Church. Many passages from this section of the book, notably Wisdom 3:1-8, are used by the Church in her liturgy.
The principal divisions of the Book of Wisdom are: - Reward of Justice (Wisdom 1:1-6:21)
- Praise of Wisdom by Solomon (Wisdom 6:22-11:1)
- Special Providence of God during the Exodus (Wisdom 11:2-16; 12:23-27; 15:18-19:22) with digressions on God's mercy (Wisdom 11:17-12:22) and on the folly and shame of idolatry (Wisdom 13:1-15:17)
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/wisdom/intro.htm
The Book of Wisdom
Chapter 3 1 But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and no torment shall touch them.2 As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself.3 In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks through stubble;2 He who pleased God was loved; he who lived among sinners was transported--3 16 Yes, the just man dead condemns the sinful who live, and youth swiftly completed condemns the many years of the wicked man grown old. 17 For they see the death of the wise man and do not understand what the LORD intended for him, or why he made him secure. http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/wisdom/wisdom4.htm
Last edited on Fri Aug 15th, 2008 02:27 am by Pani Rose
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Pani Rose
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| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 02:29 am |
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Also, I like to use this for those who lose young people, or even a spouse that passes early.
The Book of Wisdom
Chapter 4
I give up, I can't get it to post right. Read Wisdom 4: 7-17
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/wisdom/wisdom4.htm
Last edited on Fri Aug 15th, 2008 02:34 am by Pani Rose
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
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| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 03:45 am |
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Jackie wrote: we both agree seeing the vs "As gold in the furnace, He proved them, and as sacrificial offerings He took them unto himself." -- in the protestant bible.
I've looked but all I can find are a couple of similarly phrased passages proverbs 17 and 27, Zechariah 13, 1 Peter 1, and of course 1 Corinthians 3
Hope this helps
Regards Doc
____________________
NB: 'DrDave' is a nickname from college not and indication of academic achievement.
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Pani Rose
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| First Name: | Rose | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Ruthenian Byzantine in a Melkite Greek Catholic Parish, raised ... |
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 04:27 am |
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Here you go
Bible, King James. Wisdom of Solomon, from The holy Bible, King James version (Apocrypha)
Electronic Text Center, University of Virginia Library
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvSolo.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=all
http://etext.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/KjvSolo.html
Header Chapter 1 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 1 Chapter 2 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 2 Chapter 3 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 3 Chapter 4 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 4 Chapter 5 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 5 Chapter 6 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 6 Chapter 7 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 7 Chapter 8 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 8 Chapter 9 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 9 Chapter 10 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 10 Chapter 11 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 11 Chapter 12 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 12 Chapter 13 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 13 Chapter 14 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 14 Chapter 15 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 15 Chapter 16 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 16 Chapter 17 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 17 Chapter 18 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 18 Chapter 19 Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha), chapter 19
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 04:46 am |
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Jackie wrote:Yes friends, I have explained as much to my friend but we both agree seeing the vs "As gold in the furnace, He proved them, and as sacrificial offerings He took them unto himself." -- in the protestant bible.
It’s from Wisdom 3:6. Your Protestant friend may have had a Protestant bible “with Apocrypha.” These do exist; my father had one with the Revised Standard Version text.
For Protestants, “Apocrypha” refers to somewhat more than what Catholics refer to as “Deuterocanonical.” So it includes books like 2 Esdras and the Prayer of Manasses, which Catholics regard as apocryphal.
David
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ChildofGod
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 04:48 am |
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Pani Rose, you're really sharp! I still don't know how to post information from other websites! Thanks for the links to the Book of Wisdom. I should become familiar with this book.
Darlene
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