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ecassidy
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| First Name: | Gene | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic to evangelical Protestant to evangelical Catholic |
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 08:32 pm |
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Hi all,
I'd like your thoughts on this bit of theology, the idea that salvation history can be outlined as:
Creation - God created the world
Fall - the world and humanity fell into sin and decay
Redemption - God sent His Son to redeem the world and create a new humanity
Restoration - eventually the whole world will be renewed...death, decay, injustice and suffering will be removed
Is this strictly a Protestant line of thinking or does it exist in Catholic theological circles?
Peace,
Gene
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Ave_Girl
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 09:32 pm |
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Yes, that is in line with Catholic thinking. Another way to capture salvation history is to say creation-sin-covenants-Jesus-new heavens/new earth. In Catholic theology (the idea is even present in pagan philosophy) there is a term exitus-reditus which essentially means that everything came from God and will return to God. It encompasses everything you mentioned. One thing that I would add to your summary is between the fall and redemption is covenants. God bringing His people closer and closer to Him until He gives us His own Son.
Anyway, those were my thoughts on the matter  .
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~Mary Clare Piecynski~
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ecassidy
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| First Name: | Gene | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic to evangelical Protestant to evangelical Catholic |
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 09:42 pm |
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Thanks, Ave...Are you a new Moderator? Gene
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Ave_Girl
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 09:47 pm |
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I wouldn't say I'm a new, new mod, I've been working with the forum for several months now. But yes, I am comparatively new. 
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~Mary Clare Piecynski~
Coming Home Network Staff
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maryp@chnetwork.org
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 09:49 pm |
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Details will differ between denominations and between individuals, but I think that as a general outline of salvation, your summary could be seen as acceptable or nearly so to a broad range of Christians, including Catholics.
Some individual carps on details follow. In no way should they be interpreted as a rejection of the terms they criticize, but only as suggestions for a more accurate portrayal of what the bible itself says.
• “sin and decay,” “death, decay, injustice and suffering”: Some people might take exception to the word “decay,” perhaps substituting “corruption,” which allows a moral sense, whereas “decay” is usually seen as a physical phenomenon. Romans 8:21 (I’m using the RSV-CE) is the only place in the New Testament that uses the word “decay,” and here it refers to physical creation as a whole. Man is introduced only in the next verse, in contradistinction to the rest of creation.
• “a new humanity”: While this seems to be a biblically acceptable concept from a Catholic point of view (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15), many who call themselves Christian do not believe in the actual rehabilitation and sanctification of the human being, making it problematic on a wider scale. Meanwhile, the phrase could also be construed to mean that God will create a new race of super-humans in addition to the humanity already existing, and this no Christian that I know of could accept.
• “restoration”: This word and its derivatives do not occur in the bible in the sense referred to here; the closest might be Matthew 17:11: “Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things” — but as Jesus says in v. 12, this refers to John the Baptist and not to himself. A common biblical word, “fullness,” seems preferable; God is the fullness from which all our fullness or completion comes (Ephesians 2:9–10; 3:19; 4:13). Thus God’s plan is “to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth” (Ephesians 1:10).
I like Ave_Girl’s comments. They hit on particular points that the view offered in your list seems to lack, especially the idea of covenent. I also referred above to my preference for the divine “fullness” and the recapitulation or unification of all things in God, which she expresses as “exitus-reditus.” But again, Gene, nothing of what I have said would absolutely exclude a Catholic from agreeing broadly with the list as you have presented it.
David
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ecassidy
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 10:11 pm |
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Thanks, Ave...I haven't been on the Forum continuously so that is why I asked...and thanks for your comments! Gene
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ecassidy
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 10:16 pm |
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David,
I am going to co-lead a brief Bible study in a United Methodist congregation on this topic. The attendees, most of them "lapsed" Catholics...although almost all of them have experienced a conversion outside the Church, as I did...know that I have returned to the Church, and I usually end up defending the Church when the topic comes up at the study. There is another Catholic couple who have been attending and we are all praying for this UMC congregation...half of them are lapsed Catholics and the pastor, from a Baptist background, treats their symbolic Lord's Supper as though Jesus is Really Present! I am praying for him and his family, too. A man with a faith like that would not find it hard to accept our teaching on the Eucharist.
Peace,
Gene
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 12:01 pm |
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OK, Gene. That congregation sounds more “generic Christian” or even “pseudo-Catholic” than Methodist. There is room for a lot of leverage in your presentation. I’m praying along with you that seeds will be planted.
David
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ecassidy
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 03:20 pm |
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Thanks, David...I am going to sift through the Catechism to find some good quotes to fit in the template...and thanks for your prayers! Gene
P.S. Does Marcus Grodi ever come on the Forum to chat?
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 06:45 pm |
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He did for a few weeks earlier this year, Gene. He doesn’t have much time for it, though, so one can understand if it’s spotty and brief.
David
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