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joyfulseraph
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 5th, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 4 |
| First Name: | Rachel | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Lutheran - 3 years, went to a Lutheran school, Assembly ... |
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 07:05 am |
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I am overall a moral/good person, and if sin means someone goes to hell when they die if they do not go to confession, I fear I may end up there! (everyone sins in some way) Im trying hard to accept and understand this. Kind of seems unfair. If you are a christian/catholic and because you are a human you tend to sin, you'd end up in hell!? It doesn't sound right. I know we have to repent, but what good is this new way when it seems as if your better off just staying with the old jewish ways? Also, often feelings aren't good to trust (especially if you have an emotional disorder), so what if you don't feel sorry, you are unsure?
Oh another thing is, it seems as if I'd end up being so consumed with trying to stay in a state of grace that it would be such a burden, maybe to the point of taking joy away from my life....it seems as if the protestant ideas of salvation etc. are easier to accept. *sigh*
Maybe someone here can help me out about this idea of mortal vs venial sins, confession and salvation. Also maybe share how it was for you to come to accept this, coming from a protestant denomination or other religion. Thanks.
 
Last edited on Sat Jun 14th, 2008 07:14 am by joyfulseraph
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Teach me your way, O LORD; lead me in a straight path because of my oppressors. ~Psalms 27:11
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2034 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 12:42 pm |
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Rachel, you need to learn the full difference between mortal sin and venial sin. In the bible you will find these distinguished in 1 John 5:16–17. Not all sins will send you to hell. You can read about the Catholic understanding of this difference by clicking here.
I suggest, in fact, that you read the whole section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on sin, beginning here, to better understand just how the Catholic concept of sin differs from the Evangelical understanding. I think you will find that God’s treatment of sinful human beings is in fact, not unfair at all, but actually quite merciful and kind.
As scripture repeatedly states, we are his children. He will discipline us as a kind father disciplines his children, not with scourges, but with just the right amount of “consequences” to show us the difference between good and evil and guide us to his eternal home in heaven.
Mortal sins are the major offenses worthy of hell, and venial sins are the lesser ones; you will not be condemned to hell for any number of venial sins. And reception of the sacrament of penance (confession) is not necessary for venial sins; we can simply offer a specific act of repentance, resolve to sin no more, and move on, relying on God’s mercy and forgiveness just as non-Catholics have always done with all sin.
Often feelings aren't good to trust (especially if you have an emotional disorder), so what if you don't feel sorry, you are unsure?
Your observation is correct. And the answer is that we humans must rely on faith and reason where feelings fail. Thus we as Catholics know we have repented of sin by our use of the sacrament of penance to receive forgiveness for the graver sins (or other formal acts for lesser ones) and our avoidance of all sin for the future.
Reason tells us that seeking reconciliation and avoidance of evil are proper recognition of our repentance and desire to be free of sin, and faith tells us the specific steps we must take (for instance, reception of the sacrament of penance, with its several steps to guide us back to God) with regard to each instance of sin.
Oh another thing is, it seems as if I'd end up being so consumed with trying to stay in a state of grace that it would be such a burden, maybe to the point of taking joy away from my life....it seems as if the protestant ideas of salvation etc. are easier to accept.
Quite the contrary. The Protestant method leaves a person in doubt of the state of his soul and having to rely on feelings and wishful thinking; the Catholic sacrament of penance, which begins with an examination of conscience, proceeds through confession, absolution of sins and counsel, and ends with the fulfillment of a penitential act and, if necessary, reparation, gives one divine assurance of forgiveness for the sins he has confessed. Joy is knowing you are forgiven and not just hoping (perhaps vainly) that it is so. Just because Catholic theology has codified these things doesn’t mean that it is inferior to the Protestant vagueness that you are used to. On the contrary, it helps to clarify in our minds just where we stand with God, providing a solid basis for trust and confidence.
Further, being “consumed with trying to stay in a state of grace” can be evidence of a morbid state of mind, like an obsessive-compulsive disorder. The theological name for this state is “scrupulosity.” Scruples can be a great hindrance in our spiritual life, and Catholic spiritual theology has a lot to say about them and how to deal with them. So fear not. Where non-Catholics often resort to expensive psychiatrists and extreme therapies (I know people who have suffered through them), Catholics have a 2,000-year-old tradition of understanding, help and alleviation through the building of confidence in God.
David
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 832 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 02:24 pm |
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| If you do a seach on Catholic examination of consience( we have some links in the confession thread) it will help you understand a Catholic view of sin. When you hear the explanations at first it can sound like Catholism is a rule filled joyules faith but as you learn more it all becomes more undertandable. Also inside many Catholic churches there are little leaflets giving you the prayers plus a bullet list of how to examine your consience.
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 754 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 07:09 pm |
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I agree with David, wholeheartedly! As a Protestant, I was always wondering if I was truly saved. Did I really believe? Did the nagging doubts I sometimes experienced mean that I didn't truly, fully believe? See, it was all up to ME! ME! ME! I had to believe. And if a Protestant falls away from the faith, even those who believe in "once saved, always saved" have a backup explanation for this: "Well, obviously, he was never truly saved." What if he thought he WAS??? How could I ever be SURE??? How could I know I wouldn't fall away and have people say about me, "Well, obviously, she was never truly saved"?
As a Catholic, I submit myself to God's work in baptism, in confirmation, and in reconciliation. I do my small part and God's grace does the big part. If God is doing the work, I can REST assured that the job is done: I am forgiven!!!
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Didi
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 182 |
| First Name: | Didi | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic; almost left; Now an On-Fire Catholic! |
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 08:18 pm |
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Hi Rachel --
I used to struggle with sin and confession as well, (and as a life-long Catholic). For me, the whole thing took on a new dimension when I look at my relationship with God, and not just God as a judge. Confession is our opportunity to reconcile with God, to tell Him we're sorry, and to seek the grace that is only given through this beautiful Sacrament that Jesus Himself instituted to help us.
God knows our failings, but He's interested in our attempts and in our faith and trust in Him. I am a sinner. I cannot change without God's help. Going to confession is like going to a doctor for my soul. I need guidance from the priest to help me overcome my sin and give me direction. I need the grace to overcome sin. I can't do anything without God! When we trust in Him to work in us, He can do amazing things -- even help us rid our lives of a sin we thought we could never overcome. All because He loves us.
As Catholics, we confess that we are sinners at every Holy Sacrifice of the Mass -- "Lamb of God, Who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us," and right before we receive Holy Communion -- "Lord, I am not worthy to receive You, but only say the word and I shall be healed." And when we receive Jesus in Holy Communion, which we must do in a state of grace (meaning no mortal sin), our venial sins are wiped away by His holiness!
As with all relationships, we will be working on this all our lives. When we overcome one sin and temptation, another creeps in. We must rely on God and trust in Him, and in the Sacraments He has given us for our benefit!
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Talithacumi
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 267 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 12:03 am |
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Rachel,
Hi. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents' worth, though I doubt I can really add much to the wisdom of David and the others who responded. But just think about it on a practical level...
Do you ever watch cop shows? I'm thinking specifically of a show - can't remember which one - where the town citizens decided to do one of those time capsule things where they bury a capsule filled with things from the present so that people in the future will open it up nd get an idea of what happened in the old days. Well, in this particular episode, there was a murder and the good guys suspected somebody who was kind of a town bigwig or something... anyway, in the end they found his written confession in the time capsule just before they buried it. And one of the cops said, "Well, you know what they say: confession is good for the soul."
See, the killer couldn't bear not baring his soul to... someone! When you've got that kind of a thing hanging over your head - or any kind of a sin, really - you find you have a need to get it off your chest. Because if you don't it will weigh you down and make life a burden. When I was in college taking a psychology course (our text book was a "secular" one, btw), I remember reading in it that there is a far less percentage of suicides among Catholics than among the general population, possibly because Catholics have a built-in outlet for confession. Again, "confession is good for the soul."
Confession has a lot to offer a penitent. When we go to Confession to a priest, we are able to get our sins off of our chest and express our sorrow to God - and to the Community - because the priest represents both Jesus and the Church community. See, when we sin, we don't hurt just ourselves. We hurt others - not to mention God. So we need to tell God and the Church community (again, both represented by the priest) that we're sorry. By doing so, it helps to mend the wound that the Body has sustained because of our sin. Also, when we go to Confession, we are able to receive both prayer and absolution from the priest, who is in persona Christi, or "in the person of Christ." When we confess to a priest, we are essentially confessing to Jesus. I'm sorry, but it's really not enough to just "confess our sins directly to Jesus in our heart." Doesn't that feel just a little too easy? Deep down inside every human, there is something that says we need to confess and somehow right our wrongs; there is a need for... chastisement? Discipline? When we have guilt on our soul, we need to provide restitution in some way towards those we've wronged. It's built into our very nature, I think. Think of the spoiled child who never gets discipline from his parents and by his actions of always getting into trouble or whatever, he is practically begging them to discipline him..."cruisin' for a bruisin'", you might say. Well, we all need that when we've done something wrong. Sure, we can feel sorry in our hearts, but we are not only spiritual creatures, but material and communal ones, and we need to reveal our sorrow in person to a person - someone we can communicate with in a naturally human way. I don't know about you, but when I feel sorry about something I've done, I feel a whole lot better if I tell the person I've wronged that I'm sorry and I do something to show that I mean it, in faith (penance). For instance - and I know this example gets used a lot, but - if I steal someone's watch, I can tell them I'm sorry, but it doesn't mean much if I don't give them their watch back, eh? That's repentance and penance. They more or less go hand in hand.
Another gift that we can receive from Confession is counseling. Often the priest is able to counsel us about our sin and give us some help in trying to overcome our sin. I know this has been an immense help to me in the past.
Honestly, as a Catholic, I can't imagine how hard it would be to not have the gift of Confession. I think it was Mother Angelica (from the Catholic TV network, EWTN, if you're not familiar) who compared it to a bath. She said in her down-to-earth way, "It's like taking a bath. Maybe you don't get dirty, but if you don't take a bath after awhile, what happens?... You start to stink, that's what." Same with the spiritual life. We need a spiritual bath every so often, ya know?
I hope this makes some kind of sense...
JMJ
- Cheri
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“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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kersca
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| Joined: | Fri May 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 60 |
| First Name: | Adam | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jun 16th, 2008 08:07 pm |
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Rachel,
To one who doesn't go to confession, the idea scares the crap out of them. I know, I have been there. At my parish, there's always thios same little old lady saying the rosary during confessional hours. When I walk out, she says, "feel better?". YES!!! It's so awesome. A good confessor is great but even a mediochre one is prettyu good. They offer us the love and forgiveness of Christ. "Go and sin no more indeed!" I can try to explain that feeling to you, but I didn't understand it till I sat before a priest and told him the most sordid sins of my life. He listened and after having shared all that with him, he relays to me that Christ loved me even as I was doing these things. Christ has been awaiting me to return to him and has even been helping me to return. It isn't a burden but rather a freeing act! Sure, I do try harder to take advantage of the grace God gives me by trying to live a holy life. Alas, I still screw up.
Now see, I rarely think of heaven or hell. I know that when I am living with God I am content. I go to confession, not because I fear hell, but because I crave being in God's graces (of course I believe in heaven/hell but being a typical human I am often more concerned with the here and now). Right now, I want to walk with God... worship him... please him. That gives my life joy and meaning.
Adam
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