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tames
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Posted: Sun Nov 25th, 2007 12:41 pm |
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Hello. I read this post recently from a woman who was asking questions and was very confused about the answers she was receiving. It dealt with "the way" to heaven:
To help you understand where I am coming from, I have called priests, Catholic Apologists, et.... asking about the church. A few days ago, I had a priest tell my point blank that all roads lead to heaven. He said that I needed to be the best Catholix, Jew, Muslim, HIndu that God was calling me to.
also,
Last week in my RCIA class, my the girl teaching it was very wishy washy. She said that I needed to follow God's will whether that meant being a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Catholic. I must say that I have run into some pretty frusterating people lately/ This might be Gods church, but there is a lot to be done.
She had a long post with many issues, but this one was not addressed specifically.
My background is Baptist, and I feel that I may have a calling to the Catholic faith, and believe that the above statements are false. I was always taught to believe that Jesus is the one and only way to heaven - with some room for the possibility that God's chosen people - the Jews - may also reach heaven (post Messiah). God's will is that ALL should be saved - through his Son.
Does the Catholic church teach that anyone - as long as you are faithful to your religion - can reach heaven? What then would be the point of converting people to Christ? Is this not heresy? A priest? An RCIA instructor? Wow...
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tames
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Posted: Sun Nov 25th, 2007 01:26 pm |
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OK, I found this in this forum from the Catechism:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
This may have answered my question to some degree.
The question in my mind now is 'WHO IS GOD?" Is the definintion of the Muslim "God" the same as the Jewish "God"?, or is the supreme diety of the Hindu's the same "God"?
Is everyone free to interpret the "God" in 847 the way they want? This means that I can invent my own "God" and seek it with sincerity.
May I go so far to say then that if a very devout Muslim, for example, has sought "God" in the Muslim faith, hears of Christ and what he did for us, then rejects this as not part of his faith, is then doomed. It would be better that he/she had not heard of Christ at all. God forbid!
I can see why the poor soul who wrote the original post is so confused. I am starting to confuse myself.
I always believed that God in his great Mercy would not condemn those who had never heard of Jesus or the Jewish "God". I always placed these people in the category of tribal people in very remote places of Africa or South America, etc. In today's world however, I find it difficult to believe that most Muslims do not know of Christ or many Hindu's for that matter. It is because of this I find the priest and RCIA instructor's teaching very disturbing. The truth of 847 must be taught with the utmost clarity.
Since the view of the Catholic Church in 847 is in the Catechism it is considered truth. Therefore heaven will be a very populated place!
Is there then a point to evangelization? other than "God said to do it" (which is good enough for me)?
Now I have a headache.....
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tames
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Posted: Sun Nov 25th, 2007 01:32 pm |
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I am reading some great stuff under this forum under the post "all men will be saved?". I apologize for not researching deeper and creating another post similar in nature to the above mentioned.
Anyone interested in responses, please see "all men will be saved?" first.
Thanks!
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Nov 25th, 2007 02:05 pm |
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She had a long post with many issues, but this one was not addressed specifically.… Does the Catholic church teach that anyone - as long as you are faithful to your religion - can reach heaven? What then would be the point of converting people to Christ? Is this not heresy?
What is happening here is that you are misinterpreting the question as well as the answer given. Neither the priest nor the catechist was saying anything wrong. You have been taught that the only answer to the question is a following of Jesus. And ultimately, this is correct. But there are steps of logic that one must take when speaking in general of “the way to heaven.”
When it is said that “all roads lead to heaven,” there are two possible meanings. One meaning — the one you recognize — is that no matter what religion one chooses, he will be saved. This is the same as saying that all religions are equally true — which of course is false. But it is not the meaning the priest in the lady’s story refers to.
What he means is that one has an obligation follow the truth wherever it leads. Therefore, if God is telling you to be a Muslim, then this is what you must do. A person is judged by God, certainly, when he comes before the throne of heaven. But he is judged on the basis of what he knows and what he has done with that knowledge. In other words, God is reasonable and won’t judge a Pakistani who grew up in an exclusively Muslim society and had no choice of what he believed in the way he would judge an American who had several credible opportunities throughout his life to encounter the real Jesus but turned him down because he was knee deep in secular hedonism and its distortions of all religion.
The priest’s lesson, then, is different from what you supposed. What he means is that if you don’t have a chance to know Jesus, God won’t condemn you for that alone. If you are following the truth as best you can, it is enough. This is your subjective right.
But of course the truth, objectively, is Jesus. If you are are listening to God’s call and have even a slight chance of encountering him where you are, he is the one you will be called to. Christianity then becomes the only way. As I told the lady, “Keep your eye on the truth,” and the way will be clear.
So the bottom line here, Tim, is that the Catholic Church does not teach that all religions are equal. What it does teach is that there is such a thing as invincible ignorance (follow the link for a discussion of the meaning of the term), and that people who, through no fault of their own, simply had no opportunity during their lifetime to know Jesus will not be penalized for that circumstance.
David
••As a footnote, I see that while I was writing this, you were doing further research and found some answers to your original question. I will address some of your subsequent questions below.Last edited on Sun Nov 25th, 2007 02:30 pm by David W. Emery
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Nov 25th, 2007 02:50 pm |
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Is everyone free to interpret the "God" in [CCC] 847 the way they want? This means that I can invent my own "God" and seek it with sincerity.
May I go so far to say then that if a very devout Muslim, for example, has sought "God" in the Muslim faith, hears of Christ and what he did for us, then rejects this as not part of his faith, is then doomed. It would be better that he/she had not heard of Christ at all. God forbid!
The Catechism is specific: “Through no fault of their own.” The person must be sincerely seeking the truth. One cannot logically “invent” a God of his own and then “seek him with sincerity.” This is a contradiction in terms.
The mere “hearing of” Christ is not sufficient to cause someone to recognize the truth of Christianity. Many times, what is “heard” are lies or other evidence, such as the sinful lives of some Christians, which lead people to avoid Christianity. The rejection of Christ by a sincere Muslim is usually part of the same invincible ignorance that brought him to seek God through Islam. In other words, he does not recognize that Christ is the one he should follow because he has been told that the truth lies elsewhere, or because what is presented in the Christianity he sees does not correspond to his sense of truth. Therefore he is not “doomed,” but continues to have the possibility of salvation.
It is good that you are finding some real guidance in the Catechism, Tim. This is what the book was designed for. As with scripture, there can be misinterpretations of Catholic doctrine and the explanations of it found in the official documents. Nevertheless, most of what people seek in the way of religious truth can be found there.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Nov 25th, 2007 02:57 pm |
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tames wrote: The question in my mind now is 'WHO IS GOD?" Is the definintion of the Muslim "God" the same as the Jewish "God"?, or is the supreme diety of the Hindu's the same "God"? There is only one God, the Living God, the God of Abraham, who told Moses "I AM", whom Jesus introduced to us as Abba and who, with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, form the community we know in Christianity as the Holy Trinity, the one and only God in three Persons.
Calling God Allah, or Krishna, or Zeus, or Ra, or any other name does not change the reality that is God. Believing in the gods of Olympus or Rome, or as the ultimate reality of the Ba'hai, does not change God. God is. "I AM".
This God who created us in God's own image and likeness as thinking, rational beings, desires all humanity to be saved. In the essence of our creation, God desired us to share eternity united with God in heaven. We are not created for this reality; we are created for eternity. We cannot be happy in this life; we are destined for eternity.
God promised salvation to Adam and Eve, to Noah, to Abraham, to Moses, to David, to all generations of Jews. Through covenants with Adam and Noah, salvation is available to all humanity; through Abraham to the Muslims, through Moses to the Jews, and the ultimate and final covenant was sealed by Jesus on the cross. God cannot abandon God's covenants; God is ever faithful, The Catholic Church teaches us that salvation is available to all who seek God with a sincere heart.
So those who have never heard the name of Jesus, through no fault of their own, may be saved. Even those who have heard of Jesus but because of ingrained prejudices cannot accept the word may still be saved. But those who have heard the gospel message and understood it but still reject it have forfeited eternity.
Do all roads lead to salvation? Yes, but....
Some roads are superhighways that take us directly to our destination.
Some are country roads with potholes and turnoffs and distractions at every turn.
Some are farm to market roads that meander alongide rivers and through fields with no markings at all.
And some may even choose to set out through the jungle with nothing more than a machete.
We see the Catholic Church as the superhighway. The Church gives us a clear direction and if we but follow the path she lays out for us, we can't go wrong.
Other Christian faiths represent the country roads. They're in pretty good shape, but still are poorly marked with lots of turnoffs.
The Jewish and Muslim faiths also represent clear passages to salvation, but with successively more potholes and opportunities for failure. Muslims in particular have proven succeptible to a dangerous form of fundamentalism.
Others who have faith are on the farm to market roads with lots of turns and few markings, while those with no faith are in the jungle on their own with nothing more than machete. Unfortunately, some who claim to be Christian have drifted so far from the gospel message that they also find themselves alone in the jungle. Their faith has become a hindrance rather than a help.
So yes, salvation is available to all, but the path is harder the farther one drifts away from Jesus and his Church.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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NotCatholic
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Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2007 02:28 am |
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The Jewish and Muslim faiths also represent clear passages to salvation, but with successively more potholes and opportunities for failure. Muslims in particular have proven succeptible to a dangerous form of fundamentalism.
So yes, salvation is available to all, but the path is harder the farther one drifts away from Jesus and his Church.
Well I'm sorry but I must say somthing what you said may be Catholic teaching but its 100% false Islam will never be a clear passage to salvation but I can tell what it will be a False Religion. I would a agree that if a muslim lives in say Saudi Arabia and theirs no way for him to find out about Jesus then yes he could be saved by the grace of God but Islam will never be a path to salvation. well this is my view anyways.
God Bless!
____________________
The attitude that nature is chaotic and that the artist puts order into it is a very absurd point of view, I think. All that we can hope for is to put some order into ourselves-Willem De Kooning
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2007 11:22 pm |
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NotCatholic wrote: The Jewish and Muslim faiths also represent clear passages to salvation, but with successively more potholes and opportunities for failure. Muslims in particular have proven succeptible to a dangerous form of fundamentalism.
So yes, salvation is available to all, but the path is harder the farther one drifts away from Jesus and his Church.
Well I'm sorry but I must say somthing what you said may be Catholic teaching but its 100% false Islam will never be a clear passage to salvation but I can tell what it will be a False Religion. I would a agree that if a muslim lives in say Saudi Arabia and theirs no way for him to find out about Jesus then yes he could be saved by the grace of God but Islam will never be a path to salvation. well this is my view anyways.
God Bless!
All salvation is through the grace of God. None of us "earns" salvation. It is ours only because God grants it to us, Jesus earned it for us, and the Holy Spirit brings it to us. But if Islam is the only truth one knows, Islam may bring one to salvation. (I am NOT referring to the radical Islam of the suicide bombers and terrorists.) However, in many cases salvation may come in spite of faith in non-Christian religions, not because of it.
Read Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus gives us the "recipe" for salvation. We will be judged by how we treat the least of God's people. A Muslim who treats the least of God's people well will be counted among the sheep, while a Christian who treats others badly will find himself among the goats. But those who pervert God's natural law, whether Christian or Jewish or Muslim or anything else, will find themselves on the wrong side of the divide when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.
Even Satan believes in Jesus. Faith is not enough. But a Christian who believes in Jesus and faithfully lives the gospel message has a definite head start on being on the right side of that divide.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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NotCatholic
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Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 12:25 am |
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All salvation is through the grace of God. None of us "earns" salvation. It is ours only because God grants it to us, Jesus earned it for us, and the Holy Spirit brings it to us
I agree
But if Islam is the only truth one knows, Islam may bring one to salvation.
I disagee the Religion of Islam can not bring any Salvation but a Muslim can get Salvation if he has no way to find out about Christ like in KSA. Islam is a false Religion that rejects Jesus Christ as God it can bring No Salvation Only Gods mecry and grace can bring Salvation to a muslim not the false religion of muhammad.
22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 John 2-22
23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2-23
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14-6
Christianity is the only true Religion end of story. I don't believe every Religion is true.
God bless Rick!
____________________
The attitude that nature is chaotic and that the artist puts order into it is a very absurd point of view, I think. All that we can hope for is to put some order into ourselves-Willem De Kooning
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 12:35 am |
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NotCatholic wrote: But if Islam is the only truth one knows, Islam may bring one to salvation.
I disagee the Religion of Islam can not bring any Salvation but a Muslim can get Salvation if he has no way to find out about Christ like in KSA. Islam is a false Religion that rejects Jesus Christ as God it can bring No Salvation Only Gods mecry and grace can bring Salvation to a muslim not the false religion of muhammad.
22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 John 2-22
23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2-23
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14-6
Christianity is the only true Religion end of story. I don't believe every Religion is true.
What you say is correct. He who denies Christ cannot be saved. But what of one who never knows Christ? How can someone deny what he does not know? The answer is that he can't. He can only follow the truth of natural law that God has written on his heart, and that is the fundamental truth of all religions. It is through this natural law that salvation is offered. Islam is a path to salvation only in the way that it is true to the natural law of God. The same is true of every other non-Christian religion. But he who knows Christ and denies him cannot be saved, and he who knows Christ and fails to follow his teaching, even if he proclaims Him, also cannot be saved.
And even those who do not know Jesus are saved by his sacrifice on the cross, through his one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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NotCatholic
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Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 01:09 am |
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What you say is correct. He who denies Christ cannot be saved. But what of one who never knows Christ? How can someone deny what he does not know? The answer is that he can't. He can only follow the truth of natural law that God has written on his heart, and that is the fundamental truth of all religions. It is through this natural law that salvation is offered. Islam is a path to salvation only in the way that it is true to the natural law of God. The same is true of every other non-Christian religion. But he who knows Christ and denies him cannot be saved, and he who knows Christ and fails to follow his teaching, even if he proclaims Him, also cannot be saved.
And even those who do not know Jesus are saved by his sacrifice on the cross, through his one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
Rick read what I said key words being in blue
I disagee the Religion of Islam can not bring any Salvation but a Muslim can get Salvation if he has no way to find out about Christ like in KSA. Islam is a false Religion that rejects Jesus Christ as God it can bring No Salvation Only Gods mecry and grace can bring Salvation to a muslim not the false religion of muhammad.
And I will say it agian the Religion of Muhmmad Islam can never bring Salvation it is a False Religion. Christianity is the only true Religion. So if God grants a Muslim Salvation it has nothing to do with his False Religion and everything to do with Gods love,mercy and Grace.
23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2-23
Jesus makes clear that muslims and Christians don't worship the same God key words in blue.
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him
Quran Surah 112 Al-Ikhlas
Rick I guess we will need to agree to disagree man I'm saying that alot lol
God bless Rick!!
Last edited on Tue Dec 4th, 2007 01:14 am by NotCatholic
____________________
The attitude that nature is chaotic and that the artist puts order into it is a very absurd point of view, I think. All that we can hope for is to put some order into ourselves-Willem De Kooning
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Candlemass
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Posted: Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 09:14 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: NotCatholic wrote: But if Islam is the only truth one knows, Islam may bring one to salvation.
I disagee the Religion of Islam can not bring any Salvation but a Muslim can get Salvation if he has no way to find out about Christ like in KSA. Islam is a false Religion that rejects Jesus Christ as God it can bring No Salvation Only Gods mecry and grace can bring Salvation to a muslim not the false religion of muhammad.
22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 John 2-22
23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2-23
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14-6
Christianity is the only true Religion end of story. I don't believe every Religion is true.
What you say is correct. He who denies Christ cannot be saved. But what of one who never knows Christ? How can someone deny what he does not know? The answer is that he can't. He can only follow the truth of natural law that God has written on his heart, and that is the fundamental truth of all religions. It is through this natural law that salvation is offered. Islam is a path to salvation only in the way that it is true to the natural law of God. The same is true of every other non-Christian religion. But he who knows Christ and denies him cannot be saved, and he who knows Christ and fails to follow his teaching, even if he proclaims Him, also cannot be saved.
And even those who do not know Jesus are saved by his sacrifice on the cross, through his one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. Is this a form of universalism?
Last edited on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 09:14 pm by Candlemass
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 10:00 pm |
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Is this a form of universalism?
Only in the sense that God desires all his children to be saved.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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HelenRose
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Posted: Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 10:13 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: Is this a form of universalism?
Only in the sense that God desires all his children to be saved.
How can this discussion relate to Saint Faustina's message of Divine Mercy?
I find a great of comfort in the message of Divine Mercy for those whom I love - who for various reasons do not know Christ as I know him through the Church.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 02:07 am |
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HelenRose wrote: CajunRick wrote: Is this a form of universalism?
Only in the sense that God desires all his children to be saved.
How can this discussion relate to Saint Faustina's message of Divine Mercy?
It is the teaching of our Church that a merciful God would provide a means of salvation to all his children even if, through no fault of their own, they have no knowledge of God or our Savior. This is the Divine Mercy of God that salvation comes to us from the Father through the Son in the action of the Spirit working through the Church.
We know through the revelation of God and the teachings of the Church that baptism and the sacraments are the ordinary means of salvation, but our Church also teaches us that God may provide other means for those who, due to invincible ignorance, do not have access to baptism and the sacraments. And since the Church is the ultimate sacrament of God on earth, saslvation may be available to all humanity through the Divine Mercy of God.
Many martyrs have died for the faith. Many others who had never heard of Jesus have given their lives to protect others. Soldiers in the battlefield, residents of Nazi concentration camps, and thousands (perhaps millions) of others have lost their lives protecting others. Jesus told us that a person can show no greater love than to give his life for another, so we can believe that God will make a path to salvation available to those who sacrifice themselves altruisticly. We call this the baptism of blood.
We also believe that there are many people who would choose baptism if they had knowledge of the sacrament, or who explicitly desire baptism but have not had the opportunity to receive it (such as catechumens preparing to receive the sacrament). We call this the baptism of desire.
So our Church teaches, and has always taught, that the baptism of blood and desire are available to those who meet the criteria even if they have never heard of YWHW or Jesus. This is the ultimate Divine Mercy of God, that salvation might be available even to those who, through invincible ignorance, may have no knowledge of God.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Candlemass
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 02:22 am |
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CajunRick wrote:
It is the teaching of our Church that a merciful God would provide a means of salvation to all his children even if, through no fault of their own, they have no knowledge of God or our Savior. This is the Divine Mercy of God that salvation comes to us from the Father through the Son in the action of the Spirit working through the Church.
We know through the revelation of God and the teachings of the Church that baptism and the sacraments are the ordinary means of salvation, but our Church also teaches us that God may provide other means for those who, due to invincible ignorance, do not have access to baptism and the sacraments. And since the Church is the ultimate sacrament of God on earth, saslvation may be available to all humanity through the Divine Mercy of God.
Many martyrs have died for the faith. Many others who had never heard of Jesus have given their lives to protect others. Soldiers in the battlefield, residents of Nazi concentration camps, and thousands (perhaps millions) of others have lost their lives protecting others. Jesus told us that a person can show no greater love than to give his life for another, so we can believe that God will make a path to salvation available to those who sacrifice themselves altruisticly. We call this the baptism of blood.
We also believe that there are many people who would choose baptism if they had knowledge of the sacrament, or who explicitly desire baptism but have not had the opportunity to receive it (such as catechumens preparing to receive the sacrament). We call this the baptism of desire.
So our Church teaches, and has always taught, that the baptism of blood and desire are available to those who meet the criteria even if they have never heard of YWHW or Jesus. This is the ultimate Divine Mercy of God, that salvation might be available even to those who, through invincible ignorance, may have no knowledge of God.
To wit, God is then not the butcher some religious folks have made Him out to be, and might He be far more merciful then most of us imagine?
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"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 03:32 am |
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Candlemass wrote: To wit, God is then not the butcher some religious folks have made Him out to be, and might He be far more merciful then most of us imagine?
Jesus looked down from the cross upon the people who nailed him to it and said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
I don’t think he was speaking just of his executioners. I think he was talking about me.
And you.
So the only question left is -- will you let God do what Jesus asked, and forgive you? Will you kneel with his Blessed Mother under the cross, beneath his Precious Body, and let his Precious Blood wash you clean?
Or will you turn your back and walk away?
Jesus is Divine Mercy.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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setapart
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 04:00 am |
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In talking about Divine Mercy, I am reminded of my father-in-law passing away at the age of 83 as he entered the hospital he was very afraid of dying, he was Baptized Catholic but never attended chruch for most of his adult life. He also picked up many false teachings about Christ - but his heart was soft towards the poor and disadvantaged. He fathered 17 children and had 130 grand children and great children when he passed away. For many years as an evangelical I witnessed to him and prayed with him several times to recieve Jesus in his heart. Judging by the wierd things that he believed in I was sure that if did not repent and believe the right things about Christ, he was headed for a Christless eternity. At the end of his life I already returned to the Catholic Chruch. Over the course of about 10 days, many prayers were said for him including many rosaries prayed by myself and 2 faithful nieces of his. A priest also came by and blessed him. When the time came for his calling away a peace came upon him and filled the whole room. I am sure that he experienced God's forgiveness and eternal rest. What amazed me though was two important dates in his life - his birth - August 15th - the Feast of the Assumption and his death - Dec 8th - the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. I think that God wanted to comfort us with the assurance that he was resting in the arms of his Mother.
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But for you who fear my name, the Sun of Righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. And you will go free, leaping with joy like calves let out to pasture. Mal 4:2
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Candlemass
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 04:21 am |
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CajunRick wrote:
Jesus looked down from the cross upon the people who nailed him to it and said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
I don’t think he was speaking just of his executioners. I think he was talking about me.
And you.
So the only question left is -- will you let God do what Jesus asked, and forgive you? Will you kneel with his Blessed Mother under the cross, beneath his Precious Body, and let his Precious Blood wash you clean?
Or will you turn your back and walk away?
Jesus is Divine Mercy.
I know you are speaking somewhat metephoically, so what does this mean in a practical way, surely your not asking me to say "the sinner's prayer" again?! What does the Church require of me?
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 11:57 am |
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Candlemass wrote: CajunRick wrote: I know you are speaking somewhat metephoically, so what does this mean in a practical way, surely your not asking me to say "the sinner's prayer" again?! What does the Church require of me?
The Church asks for the same thing Jesus does: A change of heart, a true repentance, the love of God and other people, and a sincere desire and attempt to sin no more.
From a practical standpoint, the Church asks you to take and eat, for this is his Body; take and drink, for this is his Blood.
The Church asks you to humbly submit to the teachings and doctrines of God as preserved by his Church.
The Church asks you to seek forgiveness not only from Christ but also from the Body of Christ, the Church, which you have wounded by your sins.
The Church asks that you allow the grace of forgiveness from God through Jesus by the Spirit acting through the Church to heal your pain.
No prayer is enough, whether it is the sinner's prayer, an Act of Contrition, or a rosary. Even the Eucharist is not enough if it does not feed a change of heart. You must seek to follow the ultimate commandment of our Savior, to "love one another as I have loved you".
And you must also know that you will fail and when you do, you must reach out for God's forgiveness through the healing sacraments of the Church.
When the rich man asked Jesus what was required, Jesus told him to follow the law and the commandments. When the man said what more can I do, Jesus told him to take up his cross and follow him. The rich man turned away.
Will you?
You carry a lot of crosses. Will you let Jesus and his Church help you carry them? Or will you be crushed under their weight? Even Jesus needed help carrying his cross. Our Savior acting through the Church he founded offers you the shoulders of billions of Christians to help you bear the weight of your sins, for his yoke is easy and his burden light because we all share the weight of our sins, which Jesus carried to his cross for all of us.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Candlemass
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Posted: Tue Jan 29th, 2008 12:49 pm |
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