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Angie_Rivas1
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 06:18 pm |
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Is it correct to say that outside the CC there is not salvation? It sounds to me a little bit arrogant and it is like we are judging the actions of those who are not Catholic when only the Lord knows the human heart.
Angie
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"Be not afraid" JPII
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Katy
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 06:42 pm |
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The statement, without properly understanding it, does sound arrogant. But after I read the following explanation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (#846-848), the phrase made much more sense:
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
Last edited on Thu Jul 12th, 2007 06:47 pm by Katy
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Lord, by Your cross and resurrection, You have set us free. You are the Savior of the World.
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BettyBoopToo
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 08:17 pm |
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Angie_Rivas1 wrote: Is it correct to say that outside the CC there is not salvation? It sounds to me a little bit arrogant and it is like we are judging the actions of those who are not Catholic when only the Lord knows the human heart.
Angie
Angie
I understand what you mean by this, The very comment just seems so harsh to me. I personally don't use this Phrase, but do as Katy and go to the catechism to explain this. I think that it's the only way a person can properly convey the interpretation of this statement to others.
This is the first thing I was asked after being baptised. "So, Do you now believe that everyone is going to Hell, except Catholic's?"
I had never considered it before, really? so I had to get the catachism out and find out exactly what The church taught.
Betty
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Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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DrDave
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 08:39 pm |
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Imagine a native, living in the amazon in the year 324AD, as yet there have been no Christian missionaries come through preaching about Jesus, in fact there wont be for at least another millennia. But this young native wakes up before dawn one morning, and watching the sunrise thinks to himself " lask iasio jasdr gsl df ij oijusd ughui trn pwam" which translates to "There must be something powerful out there that caused such wonders".
We know that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". We also know that "Through Him all things were made", So indeed we know that this fictional native is indeed recognizing Christ, who was the author of that long forgotten sunrise.
The fact that this native, not being able to read the fine print embedded in that sunrise (it was too bright ) decides to call his new found deity Henry, rather than Jesus, or Yahweh (or Jehovah) is irrelevant. If this young native then pledges to live the remainder of his life in accordance with the dictates of his God (Henry) the he would be following, to the best of his ability what Catholic theologians would call the Natural Law, or what the Bible calls the Laws "written on men's hearts". This pursuit would mark him as a member of the body of Christ(Henry) as as such a member of the Church.
If at some later stage he became aware of the visible church, and her teachings, and became convinced of them he would be obliged to visibly affirm his membership, and simultaneously avail himself of the graces she offers through the Sacraments.
So I think it is important to keep in mind the parallel drawn many times in the Bible between the "Body of Christ" and the "Church", as such the same teaching can be rephrased, still in the negative as "There is no salvation without becoming a member of the Body of Christ"
I hope this helps
Regards Dave
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 09:07 pm |
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{DrDave, gee, i never knew you were fluent in "native amazon"}
Angie, You are right, its all about the best intentions of the heart, that only God knows.
The Church does teach that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church, however the statement is frequently misunderstood and misinterpreted. I've had to work at understanding this too. So looking it up in the Catechism is the best way to start, as the quote by Katy shows.
This teaching doesn't mean exactly that unless you are a formal Mass-attending Catholic you won't get to heaven. If you don't know about Jesus Christ or the Catholic Church you can't be punished for this invincible ignorance. However, if we ARE given the knowledge, and we consciously reject it, then that is a problem.
We only enter heaven after being completely united to God first, after being purified of our sins, attachments, and imperfections. [see also the teaching on Purgatory]
If Jesus Christ founded the Church, and we can only be saved through Jesus Christ, then it follows that we would be following His Church to heaven. If the Catholic Church teaches that same Truth, then accepting this Truth and practicing it is the only way to enter. --Following His Truth whether we are aware of the visible church or not.
Put another way, accepting and practicing what the Church teaches gets us to heaven. This means being good to the best of our ability, whether we have specific knowledge of Jesus and His Church or not. So for instance, the man who has no way of learning about Jesus or the Catholic Church still can be saved when he conducts himself as honorably as his natural understanding of goodness allows him.
This concept is also based on the belief that man is inherently good and naturally capable of acting right, though with a lot of effort. The Church makes this effort easier with Her Sacraments and teaching.
This whole concept is about the internal intention of our hearts to follow God, through His Son, as best as we know how.
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2007 08:49 am |
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Angie_Rivas1 wrote: Is it correct to say that outside the CC there is not salvation?
This is a kind of poor analogy that I'm still working on, but I think it has the same basic meaning.
"Outside the ocean there is no water."
Of course there is. And yet, in some way, all water is part of the ocean. You can take any stream anywhere and if you follow it to its logical conclusion, you will end up in the ocean. Water that evaporates from the ocean falls on the land as rain, is collected into creeks and bayous and streams and rivers, and eventually flows into lakes and gulfs and back into the ocean. Yet, in a chemical sense, it's always part of the ocean. A person who has never seen or heard of the ocean can always be nourished by water's life-giving substance, but will never have a true appreciation of the vastness of water available in the ocean.
Salvation is sort of like that. Yes, salvation is available outside the Church, but that's because all of us are part of the Church in a mystical way. That water in the stream is still made up of hydrogen and oxygen, but there are things missing from it that make it different from the ocean's water; namely, the salt. So the water is the same, but different.
The Church as the mystical Body of Christ is the source of all grace as the oceans are the source of all water. As imperfect humans we can't utilize all the grace the God dispenses through the Church, as the body can't process ocean water directly because of the salt. Yet, the closer we get to the ocean (God in heaven, the ultimate source of grace), the more we can experience that grace. Where I live, I'm quite close to the "ocean" (the Gulf of Mexico) and water is flowing everywhere in swamps and bayous. In the Church, grace is flowing everywhere through the sacraments. In Lodgepole, Nebraska, Lodgepole Creek is so small it runs through town in a culvert. I'm about 30 miles from the Mississippi River.
Still, that water in Nebraska is just as wet as the water in the Mississippi River, but it's a lot harder to find. It's even harder still in the deserts of the Southwest US, but it's still there.
Grace is like that, too. Grace can bring salvation to those in "Lodgepole-type" churches like the obscure cults, but it's flowing a lot more freely in the sacramental life of the Church. And all grace eventually leads to the ocean of living water that is eternal happiness before the Throne of the Most High God.
"Outside the Church there is no salvation" just like "outside the ocean there is no water" ... all water flowing from the ocean like all grace is flowing from the Church.
(No offense meant to the very nice people in the lovely little town of Lodgepole, Nebraska. When I visited there, I saw a sign that said "Lodgepole Creek" but no creek, so I asked about it and was told it was in an underground culvert. The analogy here is to the size of the body of water that feeds Lodgepole, as opposed to the vast amounts of water available everywhere in South Louisiana.)
As I said, this is not a perfect analogy and I am still working it out in my mind, but just as all water comes from the ocean, all grace comes from the Church, which is God's chosen mechanism. It is this way not because the Church is arrogant, but because God wants it this way. And like those who have never heard of the ocean can benefit from its life-giving water, even those who have never heard of the Church can benefit from its life-giving grace. But those who know the source of God's grace on earth and refuse it anyway will be starved, just like those who know water's source and so refuse to drink will die of thirst. Outside the ocean there is no water, and outside the Church there is no salvation.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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JillD
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Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2007 12:20 pm |
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CajunRick wrote:
This is a kind of poor analogy that I'm still working on, but I think it has the same basic meaning.
"Outside the ocean there is no water."
Of course there is. And yet, in some way, all water is part of the ocean. You can take any stream anywhere and if you follow it to its logical conclusion, you will end up in the ocean. Water that evaporates from the ocean falls on the land as rain, is collected into creeks and bayous and streams and rivers, and eventually flows into lakes and gulfs and back into the ocean. Yet, in a chemical sense, it's always part of the ocean. A person who has never seen or heard of the ocean can always be nourished by water's life-giving substance, but will never have a true appreciation of the vastness of water available in the ocean.
I LIKE that analogy, Rick! Did you come up with it?? Very good!!
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2007 02:39 pm |
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JillD wrote: CajunRick wrote:
This is a kind of poor analogy that I'm still working on, but I think it has the same basic meaning.
"Outside the ocean there is no water."
Of course there is. And yet, in some way, all water is part of the ocean. You can take any stream anywhere and if you follow it to its logical conclusion, you will end up in the ocean. Water that evaporates from the ocean falls on the land as rain, is collected into creeks and bayous and streams and rivers, and eventually flows into lakes and gulfs and back into the ocean. Yet, in a chemical sense, it's always part of the ocean. A person who has never seen or heard of the ocean can always be nourished by water's life-giving substance, but will never have a true appreciation of the vastness of water available in the ocean.
I LIKE that analogy, Rick! Did you come up with it?? Very good!!
I tend to think in analogies. Some people like it. It drives others crazy.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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japhy
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Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2007 02:54 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: JillD wrote: CajunRick wrote:
This is a kind of poor analogy that I'm still working on, but I think it has the same basic meaning.
"Outside the ocean there is no water."
Of course there is. And yet, in some way, all water is part of the ocean. You can take any stream anywhere and if you follow it to its logical conclusion, you will end up in the ocean. Water that evaporates from the ocean falls on the land as rain, is collected into creeks and bayous and streams and rivers, and eventually flows into lakes and gulfs and back into the ocean. Yet, in a chemical sense, it's always part of the ocean. A person who has never seen or heard of the ocean can always be nourished by water's life-giving substance, but will never have a true appreciation of the vastness of water available in the ocean.
I LIKE that analogy, Rick! Did you come up with it?? Very good!!
I tend to think in analogies. Some people like it. It drives others crazy.
And Jesus said, "The Kingdom of God is like an analogy..."
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[Mary said,] "Do whatever he tells you." - John 2:5
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JillD
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Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2007 07:03 pm |
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japhy wrote: And Jesus said, "The Kingdom of God is like an analogy..."
Ain't that the truth??
Similarly, as I was moving from evangelical toward the Church, I was perplexed that the sermons/homilies weren't like the Bible studies I was used to. It occurred to me the other day that Jesus did not give Bible studies when He talked to the people; he gave them practical advice, often wrapped in analogies and morality tales!
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Darlene
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Posted: Sun Jul 15th, 2007 09:36 pm |
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Tina in Ashburn wrote: This concept is also based on the belief that man is inherently good and naturally capable of acting right, though with a lot of effort. The Church makes this effort easier with Her Sacraments and teaching.
Tina,
I just don't think I can agree with this. Jeremiah 17:9 says, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately corrupt." Jesus told the Pharisees, "You are of your father the devil and your will is to do your father's desires." John 8:44 And then there is the passage in John 2:24 & 25 which says: but Jesus did not trust himself to them, because he knew all men and needed no one to bear witness of man; for he himself knew what was in man." Jesus did not look at people as though they are inherently good, else he would have been able to trust Himself to them. And then there is the testimony of all of mankind in Isaiah 53 6: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." That is not a pretty picture of the human race. And this are just a few of the verses from sacred scripture that show the real condition of ungodly person. "Man is born to trouble as the sparks fly upward." Forget off hand where that verse is, possibly Job. Read Ecclesiates and what the wisest man in all the world, (aside from our Lord Jesus), had to say about the condition of man.
If man were inherently good, then why have locks on your car and house doors? Why do people put alarms in their homes if man is inherently good? There are many businesses that flourish on the simple fact that man cannot be trusted and he is inherently evil.
Now in saying this, I am not talking about the child of God who has the new man of the Spirit, the second Adam, dwelling within. I am speaking about the unregenerated man.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Jul 15th, 2007 11:18 pm |
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Darlene, there is still a sense in which it is true that man is inherently good, and this is because God made him.
Genesis 1:26.30–31:
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.”… And it was so. And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCC 339 Each creature possesses its own particular goodness and perfection. For each one of the works of the “six days” it is said: “And God saw that it was good.” “By the very nature of creation, material being is endowed with its own stability, truth and excellence, its own order and laws.” Each of the various creatures, willed in its own being, reflects in its own way a ray of God’s infinite wisdom and goodness. Man must therefore respect the particular goodness of every creature, to avoid any disordered use of things which would be in contempt of the Creator and would bring disastrous consequences for human beings and their environment.…
343 Man is the summit of the Creator’s work, as the inspired account expresses by clearly distinguishing the creation of man from that of the other creatures.
Even after the fall, mankind has the dignity of being a creature of God, and therefore can be said to participate in his goodness. This is not a moral goodness (of which you speak) but an existential goodness. Insofar as we speak strictly of a creature’s existence, it can be said that even Satan is good.
Now with regard to man’s moral status in his “unregenerated state,” Catholic doctrine refers to it as disordered and weak, unable to attain to salvation on its own. But again, this is a consequence of Adam’s sin and not of our own. Catholic theologians argued their cases for centuries before coming to this conclusion.
The determining reason was that Adam’s sin was Adam’s alone, just as my sins are mine alone. Therefore Adam bore the guilt of his own sin and received redemption in the same manner as we. However, we have inherited the effects of his sin (cf. CCC 399), just as those who are affected by us inherit the effects or consequences of our own sins. Sin always has these consequences, regardless of who has the personal guilt.
So through Original Sin, all men are “implicated in Adam’s sin” (CCC 402). However, the following must be made clear:
CCC 405 Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin — an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence”. Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.
406 The Church’s teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine’s reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God’s grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam’s fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529) and at the Council of Trent (1546).
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 12:30 am |
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Darlene wrote: Tina in Ashburn wrote: This concept is also based on the belief that man is inherently good and naturally capable of acting right, though with a lot of effort.
I just don't think I can agree with this.
I spent many years as a news reporter, and I used to field constant complaints that there wasn't more coverage of "good news". My answer was always the same: "That's because good isn't news."
News, by definition, is that which is unique. It comes from middle English and is derived from the term "new things", according to the American Heritage dictionary. It is previously unknown information.
It is news when a child is abused. It is not news that millions of children go to bed every night with a full tummy and a warm blanket.
It is news when someone shoots up a school. It is not news that millions of children and young adults go to school every day without incident.
It is news when road rage causes violence. It is not news that hundreds of millions of cars take to the highways every day without serious problems.
Murder is news. Settling disputes peacefully is not.
Crime is news. Obeying the law is not.
It is news when an adult sexually molests a child. It is not news when hundreds of thousands of teachers, priests, coaches, scout leaders, babysitters, and paid and volunteer workers of all kinds would never dream of even touching a child inappropriately.
In every case, the difference between "news" and "not news" is not whether it is good or bad, but whether it is unique or commonplace. What happens every day is not news.
The fact is, in my opinion, that the reason it is so hard to find "good news" is that man is inherently good. We have to learn to be evil. The world tries hard to entice us in that direction, and we do have natural inclinations to selfishness, but the Law of God is written on our hearts.
If man were inherently good, then why have locks on your car and house doors? Why do people put alarms in their homes if man is inherently good? There are many businesses that flourish on the simple fact that man cannot be trusted and he is inherently evil.
Because some have chosen to reject what God has written on their hearts. If man were inherently evil, locks wouldn't be enough. We'd have to be sitting on our porches armed to keep away the looters that would be running rampant in the streets every single day. We would live in forts, our yards converted into minefields, and the hottest commodity on the market would be razor wire. And we would do it for everyday survival or for fun, not from desperation as some people in the third world are forced to do. "One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch." But the bunch has to be willing to allow itself to be spoiled.
Did you know that last year there was more money contributed to charity in the United States than ever before? If man is so evil, why?
Now in saying this, I am not talking about the child of God who has the new man of the Spirit, the second Adam, dwelling within. I am speaking about the unregenerated man.
In fact, atheists and agnostics give to charity, too. They volunteer for food banks, serve as scout leaders, teach (our universities are full of them!), and give as much of themselves as anyone else. Your explanation of the goodness coming from regeneration through Jesus would not account for atheists, agnostics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and even pagans, who are willing to provide for others. No, the reality is deeper than that.
All that God created is good. It is we who make it evil.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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japhy
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 08:56 am |
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Darlene wrote: Tina in Ashburn wrote: This concept is also based on the belief that man is inherently good and naturally capable of acting right, though with a lot of effort. The Church makes this effort easier with Her Sacraments and teaching.
I just don't think I can agree with this.
I would go so far as to say man is capable of being good, but not good enough (or not good all the time). The Church doesn't make salvation easier to attain, it makes salvation attainable.
Trent's first three canons on Justification acknowledge mankind's inability to be justified before God without grace through Jesus Christ:
Canon 1.
If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law [see chaps. 1, 3], without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.
Canon 2.
If anyone says that divine grace through Christ Jesus is given for this only, that man may be able more easily to live justly and to merit eternal life, as if by free will without grace he is able to do both, though with hardship and difficulty, let him be anathema.
Canon 3.
If anyone says that without the predisposing inspiration of the Holy Ghost [see chap. 5] and without His help, man can believe, hope, love or be repentant as he ought, [Rom 5:5] so that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him, let him be anathema.
____________________
[Mary said,] "Do whatever he tells you." - John 2:5
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 09:06 am |
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Dear Darlene,
I'll add my feeble answer to that of David's, Rick's, and Jeff's solid quotes and examples.
"For God created man incorruptible, and to the image of his own likeness he made him. But by the envy of the devil, death came into the world... "(Wisdom 2:23-24 Douay-Rheims)
"Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death: and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. "(Romans 5:12 Douay-Rheims)
Don't confuse our fallen nature with the original goodness with which we were created.
This is not to say that we don't need God. We cannot get to heaven without God's intervention [i.e. Grace].
Man still has Free Will with which we can respond to grace. We amplify that grace with good works.
Another example is the search for truth by conscientious philosophers. Isn't this how Justin Martyr came to the Truth in his rational search for God? And Socrates, following Plato's conclusions, declared his belief in an "unknown God" bringing down the wrath finally of his fellow philosophers and being sentenced to drink the Hemlock.
If man is not inherently good, we would not search for God and this correspondence of Good that is in every heart.
____________________
Tina
Arlington Diocese
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Darlene
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 02:29 pm |
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Ok, I can grasp what you are all saying. But like melting snow, I will give it time "sink" in. However Tina, your last statement in your last post says, "If man is not inherently good, we would not search for God and this correspondence of Good that is in every heart." What I take issue with here is that one word "every." How does one explain the wickedness of serial killers, child molestors, evil dictators who have people put to death at whim? The list can go on of those who are nothing short of diabolical. How can one say that these kinds of people search for God or are inherently good?
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Tina in Ashburn
Member
| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ashburn, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 281 |
| First Name: | Tina | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Roman Catholic, Ukranian Catholic, presently practicing as Roman Latin ... |
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 03:21 pm |
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Dear Darlene,
Yes, really evil people exist. The devil, once created as good, turned from God and is the epitome of evil.
Don't confuse the effects of sin with what God created. Those that do evil have all chosen it, who are capable of good but have chosen otherwise. They no longer choose to search for God or admit to that buried longing for God. I've read that the biggest agony in purgatory and hell is the loss of God because God is ultimately the only possible thing that can satisfy, since we are made in His image.
Granted it is hard to accept. It is the mystery of iniquity - why would any being turn away when created as good? We are inclined to do good. But original sin weakens us. Our flesh makes war against our spirit. {i often wonder if the angels have trouble understanding us because they dont have hungry bodies that get gluttonous or brains that snap in anger}
Isn't it a heretical teaching that promotes the overall "depravity" of man? One reason this teaching is incorrect, besides being horribly depressing and against hope, is that it denies the goodness we have in our hearts, however deep down or ignored. To be more specific, its about man's inclination to evil. Man is more inclined to good than to evil.
David succinctly and correctly stated "man is inherently good, and this is because God made him." This means everybody.
I like this belief because it is so positive and it gives me hope that everyone is worth praying for no matter how lost they may seem.
Love, tina
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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